Mormons: this is a BIG DEAL

[Jerusha]

Ronald,
You can believe whatever you wnat to believe. Mormonism morphs all the time.

 

[ronald_g_w]

Quote:
The true catholic position is that we “become gods” by being “adopted” into the trinity family and thus being “placed” inside the hypostatic union we “experience” all that God is/has. this is the beatific vision.

Who had this vision, where does one find it?

 

[C2M2C]

without begining of days

This actually not true, the mormon god did have a beginning. He was born to his father in heaven as a spirit baby and then sent to an “earth” here he was married, sealed, exalted etc, etc. Then as a god himself he had spirit children who were sent to this earth.
I know this because I have been teaching Sunday Schhol and young mens for the last three years

Also the mormon god did not create the universe, he organized the matter that was in it.

I know this because up until about 3 months ago I had been going to the Jordan River temple almost monthly for the last 4 years.

Theses and many other issues are what got me here and thus my screen name C2M2C…

 

[majick275]

Quote:
The true catholic position is that we “become gods” by being “adopted” into the trinity family and thus being “placed” inside the hypostatic union we “experience” all that God is/has. this is the beatific vision.

Who had this vision, where does one find it?

you are presupposing something like the Joseph Smith “first vision” story. that is not applicable in this case. the beatific vision is a term used to describe the state of those who are brought into the presence of God in the afterlife. one can find a good description of this in the teachings of the catholic church. but for brevity’s sake you could start with the wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatific_vision

or if you have time you could read the brief commentary here:
newadvent.org/cathen/02364a.htm

 

[ronald_g_w]

you are presupposing something like the Joseph Smith “first vision” story. that is not applicable in this case. the beatific vision is a term used to describe the state of those who are brought into the presence of God in the afterlife. one can find a good description of this in the teachings of the catholic church. but for brevity’s sake you could start with the wikipedia:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beatific_vision

or if you have time you could read the brief commentary here:
newadvent.org/cathen/02364a.htm

thank you

 

[ronald_g_w]

This actually not true, the mormon god did have a beginning. He was born to his father in heaven as a spirit baby and then sent to an “earth” here he was married, sealed, exalted etc, etc. Then as a god himself he had spirit children who were sent to this earth.
I know this because I have been teaching Sunday Schhol and young mens for the last three years

Also the mormon god did not create the universe, he organized the matter that was in it.

I know this because up until about 3 months ago I had been going to the Jordan River temple almost monthly for the last 4 years.

Theses and many other issues are what got me here and thus my screen name C2M2C…

Then you need to do some more study and teach for another twenty years as I have just quoted one who served as an Apostle, word for word.

Just a thought. Is being born to parents the beginning ?

Another thought. if something has no end how then does it have a beginning ?

 

[Nickkname]

The idea that man becomes a god in Mormonism is based on the truth that man is made in the Image and Likeness of God and that God became man so that man might become like God.

Equaling God with man - even saying He has flesh and blood like man - is a true blasphemy, just as equaling a man with God is a blasphemy. But not everyone thinks this. We should pray for them.

Note to any non-Catholics who might read this: We Catholics don’t believe God has flesh and blood. We believe, rather, that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate and that His humanity is true humanity. So when we say God died or suffered or has a body, what we mean is, because He assumed human nature, He died and suffered and has a body. God Himself cannot die or suffer or be material, but because His Divnity is united to humanity, He can suffer and die and be like us in all things save sin. It is also because of the Incarnation that God is united to every human being.

 

[ronald_g_w]

I the Mormon god is just one of us, only more advanced.

 

[ronald_g_w]

The idea that man becomes a god in Mormonism is based on the truth that man is made in the Image and Likeness of God and that God became man so that man might become like God.

Equaling God with man - even saying He has flesh and blood like man - is a true blasphemy, just as equaling a man with God is a blasphemy. But not everyone thinks this. We should pray for them.

Note to any non-Catholics who might read this: We Catholics don’t believe God has flesh and blood. We believe, rather, that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate and that His humanity is true humanity. So when we say God died or suffered or has a body, what we mean is, because He assumed human nature, He died and suffered and has a body. God Himself cannot die or suffer or be material, but because His Divnity is united to humanity, He can suffer and die and be like us in all things save sin. It is also because of the Incarnation that God is united to every human being.

We Catholics don’t believe God has flesh and blood.

Neither do mormons believe that God has flesh and blood.

Was Jesus resurrected an immortal being ? having an immortal body ? YES or NO

Will we one day be resurrected and recieve an immortal body ?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Neither do mormons believe that God has flesh and blood.

It’s flesh and bone right?

 

[C2M2C]

This actually not true, the mormon god did have a beginning. He was born to his father in heaven as a spirit baby and then sent to an “earth” here he was married, sealed, exalted etc, etc. Then as a god himself he had spirit children who were sent to this earth.
I know this because I have been teaching Sunday School and young mens for the last three years

Also the mormon god did not create the universe, he organized the matter that was in it.

I know this because up until about 3 months ago I had been going to the Jordan River temple almost monthly for the last 4 years.

Theses and many other issues are what got me here and thus my screen name C2M2C…

Quoted an apostle on what? If you think that an apostles word is final you need to study momonism yourself a little longer. Mormon history is FULL of apostles who contradict each other.

If you’ve been to the temple you know that the movie says that god organized the matter he did not create it. After 18 years of going to the temple I pretty much have it memorized…

As far as gods beginning, this is basic mormon theology. Mormons preach that god is eternal and has no beginning but yet they also teach that he has parents whom he was born of. So the mormon god was not always a god. He became a god after he died and was exalted.

 

[C2M2C]

Neither do mormons believe that God has flesh and blood.

Was Jesus resurrected an immortal being ? having an immortal body ? YES or NO

Will we one day be resurrected and receive an immortal body ?

Mormons absolutely 100% believe that god has flesh and blood. Read D&C 130:22 “the Father has body of flesh and bones…”

You must not live in Utah for you to say that you think that most mormons have a greater knowledge of their religion than do others (paraphrasing your comment).

 

[nebula]

Mormons absolutely 100% believe that god has flesh and blood. Read D&C 130:22 “the Father has body of flesh and bones…”

You must not live in Utah for you to say that you think that most mormons have a greater knowledge of their religion than do others (paraphrasing your comment).

C2,

Ronald is using a technicality against you. The Mormon God doesn’t have a body of flesh and blood, he has a body of flesh and bone. REmember that in Mormon theology blood is for mortal flesh.

 

[C2M2C]

C2,

Ronald is using a technicality against you. The Mormon God doesn’t have a body of flesh and blood, he has a body of flesh and bone. REmember that in Mormon theology blood is for mortal flesh.

Okay, you got me on that one.

 

[nebula]

Okay, you got me on that one.

The objection ronald raised hardly addresses your central point though, which is in Mormonism God has NOT always been God and that’s a serious problem.

 

[C2M2C]

The objection ronald raised hardly addresses your central point though, which is in Mormonism God has NOT always been God and that’s a serious problem.

Agreed. Mormons teach that god organized matter, but did not create it. Which implies to me that god was once matter (spirit matter) so maybe that is where mormons come up with god having no begining. Matter has always existed, therefore god always existed? Dunno? Too meaty for Sunday school discussion I’m sure.

 

[PaulDupre]

Another thought. if something has no end how then does it have a beginning ?

You are confusing two different concepts:

Eternal means without beginning or end. Only God is eternal.

Aviternal means having a beginning but no end (“never-ending subsequent duration”). Angels and humans are aviternal.

 

[PaulDupre]

As far as gods beginning, this is basic mormon theology. Mormons preach that god is eternal and has no beginning but yet they also teach that he has parents whom he was born of. So the mormon god was not always a god. He became a god after he died and was exalted.

The Mormons have redefined nearly every religious term used by Christians, so that they can speak the same language but intend totally different meanings. This redefinition of terms is a key component to their deceptive recruiting tactics.

They have redefined “eternity” to mean “the period extending from the time a god is exalted until the time when that god’s spirit children are exalted”. So they can say that their “god” exists from eternity to eternity and really mean it.

Mormons say their god is “eternal” but they don’t mean that he had no beginning, because they freely admit that there was a time when their god did not exist (as an individual or as a god - they think we have all “existed” always as raw material called “intelligence” so we are all as old as the Mormon gods).

 

[mfbukowski]

Maybe you can all help me communicate why it matters more than anything if we believe that God is essentially just one of us (the Mormon position) or infinitely superior to us in every way (the orthodox Christian position). I’m getting so many Mormon responses over time to the effect that, well, we’re just ‘merely speculating’ about God’s nature anyway, big deal. How can I effectively communicate that this is a BIG FAT DEAL??

Here are my thoughts so far. How we conceptualize God affects how we worship him, how we think about him, well, everything. In MOrmonism the highest of rituals is about us becoming gods, not serving god. Maybe this sounds harsh, but it is literally true- think about it, why is celestial marriage the highest, the peak of Mormon ritual life? But, if you believe that we owe our very existence from moment to moment to God’s mercy, suddenly our highest ritual had better be about honoring and thanking and serving God, with no thought to us trying to progress to be him. This is only one of many examples, what else can I say?

This is really why I came to leave MOrmonism. I try to lay off of harsh statements about Mormonism, partly because I think things can become so sensationalised unfairly against Mormons, but one thing I came to realize, at that moment I said to myself “I’m no longer a Mormon” is that the theology is at its most basic level blasphemy. How can I communicate how seroius the situation is?

Remember this was the original topic?

You kids get off to squabbling about distortions of Mormonism you make up, and get off track.

Anyway, to get back on track, the reason you cannot convince them this is a big deal is that when you have had God speak to you, what someone on some post says is… well it’s not too important!

Let the silly squabble resume…

 

[ronald_g_w]

If you’ve been to the temple you know that the movie says that god organized the matter he did not create it. After 18 years of going to the temple I pretty much have it memorized…