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Inquiringperson
Guest
When did the Great Apostasy occur? I asked my friend, but he didn’t know (didn’t expect him to. We’re both teens).
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ParkerD
Guest
Inquiring person,
A loss of authority (God’s authority to use the priesthood keys including the authority of the apostles since they were no longer around when this happened) and a loss of the purity of some of the doctrines of the everlasting gospel taught by Christ and the apostles, occurred as a gradual thing during the AD 80’s, 90’s, and so on when John became the last living apostle and then was taken into the wilderness. It was gradual, not a single event.
There was a fairly recent thread about this subject.
Wishing you peace and good will, for you and your friend and any other readers here.
po18guy
Well-known member
The above is the most precise answer I have ever seen. It is not praise, however. I have never received a believable LDS response as to when God’s very substance changed (from being One God, into being simply one of many), and why the early, pure and “non-apostatized” Church did not teach it - or why Jesus Himself did not teach it. I also wonder why God did not “reveal” this until 1,800 years after His Son ascended.
Do you have a copy of the Essential Catholic Survival Guide ? It is very good in teching you to refute the various heresies.
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pablope
Guest
There was just a thread about this subject several months ago. You can do a search for it. In a nutshell, the LDS defenders could not come up with definite solid proof, backed up by historical evidence that it did occur.
Their evidence was it happened because their prophet, Joseph Smith, said it occurred. Nothing tangible and solid. This is most likely the answer you will get. For to admit otherwise, it would prove that the LDS claim to be the true church would fall by the wayside.
po18guy
Well-known member
And, so it is with Islam, the foundation of which was laid by a single man claiming to be a prophet, and that an angel revealed to him theretofore unknown secrets about the very nature of God. There are many other parallels between the two, even though their current practice could not be more different. Jesus is not divine in either faith, and God exists either as one of many (LDS) or by himself (Islam), with Jesus being only a prophet.
God never sent a single prophet to man, but many over time - culminating with His Son, the “Alpha and the Omega” (Revelation 1). All “prophets” who followed Him are, by definition, false, according to Peter (2 Peter 2:1). If God’s public revelation did not stop with the twelve Apostles, then on-going prophecies give Christianity a foundation of sand. We know this is not so, as Jesus taught about a foundation of rock (Matthew 7:24-27).
po18guy
Well-known member
We see now that, rather than being a “Great Apostasy”, it has morphed into a “Gradual Apostasy”.
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SnakeMauler
Guest
The Great Apostasy occured at 450 AD. Just one day, the church flopped. On January 1st of that year actually. Then there wasn’t really true Christianity until the 1800’s when Joseph Smith met God AND Jesus in the forest in the USA. Props to God for founding his religion in such a great country. So basically Jesus only saved people for about 400 years then took a break for 1400 years or so.
So really, for example, the Protestant reformation wasn’t really reforming anything as the Apostasy occured years before.
po18guy
Well-known member
Thanks! It’s all so clear now!
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SnakeMauler
Guest
No problem. Basically what happened was one day people threw out everything. Everyone went with it and those who didn’t were killed. And then people started rejecting the idea and the current Mormon understanding of the Trinity and replaced it with the Catholic one for some time and stuff like that. Any Mormon who tells you it was a “Gradual” thing is seriously misinformed. As a former Mormon I can speak for the entire religion.Thanks! It’s all so clear now!
po18guy
Well-known member
An apostate!!! :bigyikes:
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ParkerD
Guest
No, an apostate would be someone who turns away from their testimony and from the gift of the Holy Ghost and its witness, and instead embraces false teachings or doctrines or fights the witness they had received.
A person who merely leaves revealed religion because they never experienced those things, would not be identified as an apostate.
po18guy
Well-known member
Oh, so he never had it then? This sounds suspiciously like something borrowed from Jean Calvin, rather than Joseph Smith. Actually, we don’t know enough about SnakeMauler to declare one way or the other, do we?
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William_Pitts
Guest
Or their eyes were opened.
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CEM5
Guest
So true! And that foundation of rock can also be said to be Peter, the “rock” upon which Christ built His Church. And as Jesus promised, the gates of hell would never prevail against this Church built upon Cephas (Rock = Peter).Jesus is not a liar, but we know the LDS was built upon lies.
po18guy
Well-known member
I did not even think of Matthew 16:18, probably because the attack on Peter as the rock :hammering:has been repeated for so long, that some even believe it. I have not seen an attack against Matthew 7:24-27 yet (holding breath).
Jesus is not a liar, but we know the LDS was built upon lies.
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pablope
Guest
Well, in that Great Apostasy thread…Jesus was made a liar by several claims or evidence of the LDS apologists…it was pointed out, saw the point being made but would still stick with their claim/s.
Jesus is not a liar, but we know the LDS was built upon lies.
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JeanMichel
Guest
Let’s try to be respectful as we disagree with the beliefs of others. There is no need for sarcasm or distortion of Mormon beliefs.
In answer to the question that was asked, Mormons believe that the Apostasy occurred over a period of time. Some Mormons feel it occurred with the death of the last Apostle called by Jesus. Others believe that it happened later, but all agree it was certainly complete by 300.
This is only their belief. We believe that Jesus chose to build his Church upon Peter and that Pope Benedict XVI is his successor. A single line of Apostolic succession.
In answer to the question that was asked, Mormons believe that the Apostasy occurred over a period of time. Some Mormons feel it occurred with the death of the last Apostle called by Jesus. Others believe that it happened later, but all agree it was certainly complete by 300.
This is only their belief. We believe that Jesus chose to build his Church upon Peter and that Pope Benedict XVI is his successor. A single line of Apostolic succession.
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Inquiringperson
Guest
Then I’m guessing that getting the New Testament when authority was gone was pure coincidence. The chance of people guessing which book was true and which book was false and getting it correct is very slim.
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SteveVH
Guest
It all depends on who you ask. The standard answer is that it occurred upon the death of the last Apostle. Of course, they do not believe that the Apostle John ever died but is still walking around somewhere, so I’m not sure where that leaves them.
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Z_Ninja
Guest
I was told once that it happened during the Dark Ages, which would put it somewhere during the major part of the Middle Ages. Between the fall of the Roman Empire and the Renaissance. That could be anywhere from 5th to 15th century.
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