Mormons: When does human life begin?

[Good_Daughter]

Given that Mormons do NOT consider abortion an objective evil, I wonder, does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

Conception? Implantation? 90 days gestation? Birth?

 

[BartBurk]

Given that Mormons do NOT consider abortion an objective evil, I wonder, does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

Conception? Implantation? 90 days gestation? Birth?

They don’t claim to know.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Given that Mormons do NOT consider abortion an objective evil, I wonder, does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

Conception? Implantation? 90 days gestation? Birth?

Mormons believe that God created all souls long before He created (to them, organized) the earth. They believe God’s plan is for all those pre-created souls to experience a physical body, here on this earth. Mormons do not believe this “right” of experience has actually been achieved until the body which a soul inhabits takes a breath in this world. If by abortion, miscarriage or still birth the body does not take a breath, that soul has not experienced God’s promise. So, God will get that soul to where it needs to be.

The whole gestation, 90 days, pin down a point when a human is a human is sort of a non-point for mormons. I was taught that the pre-existent soul enters the body just moments before the first breath is taken. Other mormons indicate they were taught that it is unknown to us when the pre-existent soul enters a body.

It doesn’t really matter to them, as until a body has taken breath, that soul, if it is there, has not experienced life on this earth and God will place that soul into another body.

 

[zerinus]

Given that Mormons do NOT consider abortion an objective evil, I wonder, does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

Conception? Implantation? 90 days gestation? Birth?

What is “objective evil”?

zerinus

 

[goodcatholicman]

What is “objective evil”?

zerinus

Objective evil is when any logical thinking person would percieve it to be evil regardless of their religion or state in life. Examples include murder and abortion among other things including driving to slow on the highway, talking on a cell phone during church and insisting Auburn football actually won the national title under Bowden.

 

[zerinus]

Objective evil is when any logical thinking person would percieve it to be evil regardless of their religion or state in life. Examples include murder and abortion among other things including driving to slow on the highway, talking on a cell phone during church and insisting Auburn football actually won the national title under Bowden.

So is there some other kind of evil other than “objective evil”?

zerinus

 

[Enoch]

The answer to this gap in mormon moral doctrine is rather obvious. The Heavenly Father simply has not yet revealed to Mr. Hinkley (current mormon “prophet”) when we become human. Just like the Heavenly Father is conveniently remaining silent on all of the tough moral issues of today. I find it interesting that the Heavenly Father would be so quick to give a divine revelation regarding the immorality of alcohol and caffeine, but can’t seem to make up his mind regarding the murder of the most innocent humans in the world.

Of course, if the Heavenly Father ever did whisper this revelation into the ear of Mr. Hinkley and public opinion became contrary to that “divine revelation”, I’m sure the Heavenly Father would conveniently alter his “divine revelation”. Just like he did when he gave the “divine revelations” to J.S. that people with dark skin were the sons of Cane burned by hellfire and that polygamy was moral. That is of course, until racism became taboo and Utah wanted to become a state. Then all the sudden Heavenly Father just so happened to change his mind. I mean come on; you don’t actually expect the moral teachings given by creator of the universe to be perfect all the time!

 

[Good_Daughter]

Mormons believe that God created all souls long before He created (to them, organized) the earth. They believe God’s plan is for all those pre-created souls to experience a physical body, here on this earth. Mormons do not believe this “right” of experience has actually been achieved until the body which a soul inhabits takes a breath in this world. If by abortion, miscarriage or still birth the body does not take a breath, that soul has not experienced God’s promise. So, God will get that soul to where it needs to be.

The whole gestation, 90 days, pin down a point when a human is a human is sort of a non-point for mormons. I was taught that the pre-existent soul enters the body just moments before the first breath is taken. Other mormons indicate they were taught that it is unknown to us when the pre-existent soul enters a body.

It doesn’t really matter to them, as until a body has taken breath, that soul, if it is there, has not experienced life on this earth and God will place that soul into another body.

This begs the question, why do Mormons bother to oppose abortion at all?

 

[Good_Daughter]

So is there some other kind of evil other than “objective evil”?

zerinus

Hi zerinus

I would say an objective evil is something that is always, by its very nature, wrong. Adultery, according to both Mormon and Catholic teaching, is objectively evil. There is no circumstance to justify such action.

In other cases we see what we might call a “necessary evil”. People kill other people in a war, it can’t be helped. LDS teaching places abortion in the same category. Mormons view abortion as a terrible thing but allow it in some cases as they believe it brings about a greater good.

My question to Mormons is, does your church, in its teaching, consider an unborn baby a human being?

 

[SHEMP]

Given that Mormons do NOT consider abortion an objective evil, I wonder, does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

Conception? Implantation? 90 days gestation? Birth?

When human life begins is not a religious question, it is is a scientific question. When human life deserves legal protection and when human life obtains a soul is a moral and religous question.

I think it is always important for us to stress this point since the “elite” have brainwashed the public into thinking that we cannot determine scientifically when human life begins.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Of course, if the Heavenly Father ever did whisper this revelation into the ear of Mr. Hinkley and public opinion became contrary to that “divine revelation”, I’m sure the Heavenly Father would conveniently alter his “divine revelation”. Just like he did when he gave the “divine revelations” to J.S. that people with dark skin were the sons of Cane burned by hellfire and that polygamy was moral. That is of course, until racism became taboo and Utah wanted to become a state. Then all the sudden Heavenly Father just so happened to change his mind. I mean come on; you don’t actually expect the moral teachings given by creator of the universe to be perfect all the time!

If the pro-life movement were successful and all abortion made illegal, I wonder if LDS teaching would still make allowances for abortion in some situations.

 

[zerinus]

Hi zerinus

I would say an objective evil is something that is always, by its very nature, wrong. Adultery, according to both Mormon and Catholic teaching, is objectively evil. There is no circumstance to justify such action.

In other cases we see what we might call a “necessary evil”. People kill other people in a war, it can’t be helped. LDS teaching places abortion in the same category. Mormons view abortion as a terrible thing but allow it in some cases as they believe it brings about a greater good.

My question to Mormons is, does your church, in its teaching, consider an unborn baby a human being?

Have we not discussed all of this before in this thread? Does not the CC teach effectively the same kind of thing? Do you enjoy rehashing the same subject over and over after it has been answered hundreds of times before?

zerinus

 

[Good_Daughter]

Have we not discussed all of this before in this thread? Does not the CC teach effectively the same kind of thing? Do you enjoy rehashing the same subject over and over after it has been answered hundreds of times before?

zerinus

Please remember to be charitable.

To answer your questions, no, no and no, I have never recieved an answer from an active Mormon to the question I posed at the beginning of this thread.

You provided a link to a thread where I asked both you(post #106) and whyme(post #108) directly when human life begins and neither of you answered.

I asked my visiting Mormon missionaries when human life begins. They told me they didn’t know.

Feel free to keep this thread on topic and answer the following question from the point of view of an active Mormon: Does Mormonism have any teaching on when human life begins?

 

[why_me]

Since mormons believe in a pre-existence or in a premortal life, life has already begun. In the preexistence, spirits are waiting for a physical body. They achieve this physical body upon birth. So one can claim that human life begins upon birth.

Let me put it this way: Women have miscarriages all the time. Does this mean that life has ended upon miscarriage? Probably not. Since we existed before we came to this earth as spirit children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, we wait for that physical body and when that physical body is achieved the spirit ‘continues to live and function in the mortal body’.

In Jer. 1:5 we read: ‘Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations’. This makes clear that God knew Jeremiah in the pre-existence. And in Eccl. 12:7, it reads: 'and the Preacher asserted ‘The spirit shall return unto God who gave it’

And so, when does life begin? Upon birth when the body receives the spirit meant for that body.

But then again, I could be wrong.

 

[Good_Daughter]

Since mormons believe in a pre-existence or in a premortal life, life has already begun. In the preexistence, spirits are waiting for a physical body. They achieve this physical body upon birth. So one can claim that human life begins upon birth.

Let me put it this way: Women have miscarriages all the time. Does this mean that life has ended upon miscarriage? Probably not. Since we existed before we came to this earth as spirit children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, we wait for that physical body and when that physical body is achieved the spirit ‘continues to live and function in the mortal body’.

In Jer. 1:5 we read: ‘Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations’. This makes clear that God knew Jeremiah in the pre-existence. And in Eccl. 12:7, it reads: 'and the Preacher asserted ‘The spirit shall return unto God who gave it’

And so, when does life begin? Upon birth when the body receives the spirit meant for that body.

But then again, I could be wrong.

Thank you for your answer.

You seem to be saying two different things here. First, life begins in the pre-existence then, life begins at birth. Can you clarify?

If, according to what you propose, a miscarriage doesn’t end a life, how could an abortion end a life? If an abortion doesn’t end a life, why do Mormons oppose abortion at all?

 

[PaulDupre]

As Zerinus indicates, Mormons are increasingly in support of abortion. See my post here.

Paul

 

[why_me]

Thank you for your answer.

You seem to be saying two different things here. First, life begins in the pre-existence then, life begins at birth. Can you clarify?

If, according to what you propose, a miscarriage doesn’t end a life, how could an abortion end a life? If an abortion doesn’t end a life, why do Mormons oppose abortion at all?

Our spirit life begins in the pre-existence with god. We wait for our time to come to earth. Our spirit takes shape within that body upon birth. I would say that an abortion does end a life but not necessarily for that spirit that would have inherited that body. There will be other bodies.

I think that these concepts are very difficult to discuss. When it comes to creation it is a mystery. But a pre-existence does makes sense and it is touch upon in the bible.

Personally, I had a good friend. But this person also was my first love. When I met this person I felt close to them. It was as if I knew this person before. Eventually, I asked this person to marry me. The person refused. But we remained in contact for 30 years until this person died of cancer. I told this person once (the person was a catholic) that I felt that we met in a pre-existence. That when we discovered that it was our turn to come to earth, we promised to find each other and give each other support. I told my friend that perhaps we were best friends in the pre-existence and we knew that we would come to earth at the same time.

And maybe this is why there was also this special connection between us and although we only met briefly that first time, we felt that special connection, as if it were meant to be.

I thought that it was nice to think so. And so did my ‘friend’.

My life began in the womb but my life as a spirit being on a human journey began upon birth.

 

[Good_Daughter]

I would say that an abortion does end a life but not necessarily for that spirit that would have inherited that body.

So you would agree then that abortion ends the physical life of a human being?

 

[Enoch]

So you would agree then that abortion ends the physical life of a human being?

I once saw a painting of angels digging through a dumpster outside an abortion clinic and carrying souls up to heaven. Sometimes one picture says it all. One persons trash is God’s own treasure.

 

[Valke2]

Objective evil is when any logical thinking person would percieve it to be evil regardless of their religion or state in life. Examples include murder and abortion among other things including driving to slow on the highway, talking on a cell phone during church and insisting Auburn football actually won the national title under Bowden.

By your definition, abortion is clearly not an objective evil. As it is not preceived as evil by every logical thinking person, regardless of their religion or state of life. Again, by your definition, abortion would not be an objective evil, even from a Catholic point of view.