Mormons

[FightingFat]

I agree with Asa Ben Judah there. I think a Christian is someone who believes in Christ.

Most of the Mormons I have had dealings with have been very Christian in their attitude and their behaviour.

I think we do ourselves a dis-service when we say this oe that group isn’t a Christian group. Enough so called Christians claim that of Catholicism do they not?

 

[BartBurk]

I agree with Asa Ben Judah there. I think a Christian is someone who believes in Christ.

Most of the Mormons I have had dealings with have been very Christian in their attitude and their behaviour.

I think we do ourselves a dis-service when we say this oe that group isn’t a Christian group. Enough so called Christians claim that of Catholicism do they not? It’s not our place to decide. Jesus himself will seperate the lambs from the goats!

I agree. I converted to Catholicism from Mormonism a year ago, but still believe Mormons are Christians in an imperfect sense in that they reject the Trinity, but believe in the atonement and the resurrection.

In the past I have used the name christianley. I am now going to start using my real name as a reward for having been Catholic for a whole year now!

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

I agree. I converted to Catholicism from Mormonism a year ago, but still believe Mormons are Christians in an imperfect sense in that they reject the Trinity, but believe in the atonement and the resurrection.

In the past I have used the name christianley. I am now going to start using my real name as a reward for having been Catholic for a whole year now!

I am a Mormon and converted to the church almost thirty years ago. However, for many years now I have been drawn towards the Catholic Church and if it were not for the pain and anguish it would cause my beloved wife, Children and Grandchildren I would join.

At times I have suffered in mind and spirit because I do not have the courage to sacrifice all I love in this world for Christ. I have been studying Holy Scripture using Catholic study aids - this is my one true solace and I pray for forgiveness and the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

 

[christianley]

I am a Mormon and converted to the church almost thirty years ago. However, for many years now I have been drawn towards the Catholic Church and if it were not for the pain and anguish it would cause my beloved wife, Children and Grandchildren I would join.

At times I have suffered in mind and spirit because I do not have the courage to sacrifice all I love in this world for Christ. I have been studying Holy Scripture using Catholic study aids - this is my one true solace and I pray for forgiveness and the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

I understand completely. My wife was extremely disappointed when I became a Catholic. All of my children are still Mormon. It took me years to finally decide to become Catholic, but in the end I finally decided I could no longer wait. Both of my parents died at a relatively young age, and I just am not sure how much time I have in this life. I wanted to make sure I died in communion with Christ’s church. My wife was incredibly understanding of my decision, but it is still hard for her I’m sure. My prayers are with you because I know how hard it is – I spent years waiting to join the Catholic Church.

 

[BartBurk]

I am a Mormon and converted to the church almost thirty years ago. However, for many years now I have been drawn towards the Catholic Church and if it were not for the pain and anguish it would cause my beloved wife, Children and Grandchildren I would join.

At times I have suffered in mind and spirit because I do not have the courage to sacrifice all I love in this world for Christ. I have been studying Holy Scripture using Catholic study aids - this is my one true solace and I pray for forgiveness and the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Believe me, I know what you are going through. My wife and children were very disappointed when I left Mormonism for Catholicism. I’m sure they still are disappointed their father is no longer Mormon. It took me years to finally join the Catholic Church because of them. In the end I just decided I needed to make the switch – both of my parents died relatively young, and I wanted to join Christ’s true church before I died. My wife has been incredibly understanding though I know it is still hard on her. She’s a cradle Catholic who converted to Mormonism so I am sure she can’t understand why I would want to become a Catholic. Best wishes in your journey.

 

[need_to_know]

If we concede that only Catholic Baptism is valid then no one is a Christian if one has not been baptised by a Catholic Priest.

I think you misunderstand what we mean by ‘Catholic’ baptism, Asa Ben Judah. What we mean is the ‘usual’ formula for baptism, which is a water baptism (pouring of water on head, immersion, or sprinkling) and saying the words 'I baptise you in the name of the Father, Son, and of the Holy Spirit/Ghost (or some slight variation on those words). Most Christians will have been baptised in this way. The Catholic Church (and the vast majority of Christians in general) believes in Trinitarian baptism (i.e. including the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the words), which is the reason we do not accept Mormon baptisms - they baptise only in the name of Jesus Christ, omitting the Father and Holy Spirit.

The idea of a baptism being valid only if a priest performs it is not what we believe. We do believe that Priests (and Deacons and Bishops, of course) are the people who are God’s first choice for administering the sacraments. However, in an emergency (say, a newborn who may die soon after birth) anyone can perform a baptism so long as they use water and say the right words. The person performing the baptism in this situation would not have to have recieved Holy Orders, it could even be an atheist nurse who performs the baptisms in this situation, and so long as the ‘formula’ (as I described above) was correct, Catholics would regard this as a valid baptism.

-Joe

If I’ve got anything wrong, feel free to correct me…

 

[FightingFat]

I am a Mormon and converted to the church almost thirty years ago. However, for many years now I have been drawn towards the Catholic Church and if it were not for the pain and anguish it would cause my beloved wife, Children and Grandchildren I would join.

At times I have suffered in mind and spirit because I do not have the courage to sacrifice all I love in this world for Christ. I have been studying Holy Scripture using Catholic study aids - this is my one true solace and I pray for forgiveness and the prayers of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

God love you friend! You are in my thoughts and prayers today! If you fancy a pint some time just let me know!

As for the Christian issue- John 13:35 is all I have to say!

God bless

Mark.

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

The Catholic Church (and the vast majority of Christians in general) believes in Trinitarian baptism (i.e. including the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the words), which is the reason we do not accept Mormon baptisms - they baptise only in the name of Jesus Christ, omitting the Father and Holy Spirit

If I’ve got anything wrong, feel free to correct me…

Dear Joe,

The baptismal prayer for those entering the Mormon Church is

“Having been comissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen”

If the words are not spoken exactly the process has to be repeated until it has been. This has been the case since the establishment of the church in 1830.

I was baptised (Christened) with that wording as an adult, am I therefore a Christian?

With respect, almost all non LDS have a distorted notion of what the church believes and teaches about God and Jesus Christ, most of the drivel has been promoted by those who feel most threatened by this particular church.

Before I joined the LDS church I had been brought up in a home where religion was irrelevant, indeed my parents never had me Christened as a baby. Although religion was considered irrelevant I was brought up with a load of anti-Catholisicm. Now I know that if one wants to know the truth about any organisation then the best thing to do is to read/glean information that is approved by that particualr organisation. I think it is what Catholics call the Imprimatur.

As I wrote earlier I do not have an axe to grind, on the contrary, I now beleive that The Catholic Church is good and true; but I still contend that mormons are Christians.

 

[BartBurk]

Dear Joe,

The baptismal prayer for those entering the Mormon Church is

“Having been comissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen”

If the words are not spoken exactly the process has to be repeated until it has been. This has been the case since the establishment of the church in 1830.

I was baptised (Christened) with that wording as an adult, am I therefore a Christian?

With respect, almost all non LDS have a distorted notion of what the church believes and teaches about God and Jesus Christ, most of the drivel has been promoted by those who feel most threatened by this particular church.

Before I joined the LDS church I had been brought up in a home where religion was irrelevant, indeed my parents never had me Christened as a baby. Although religion was considered irrelevant I was brought up with a load of anti-Catholisicm. Now I know that if one wants to know the truth about any organisation then the best thing to do is to read/glean information that is approved by that particualr organisation. I think it is what Catholics call the Imprimatur.

As I wrote earlier I do not have an axe to grind, on the contrary, I now beleive that The Catholic Church is good and true; but I still contend that mormons are Christians.

Your story sounds like mine. My parents didn’t bring me up with any particular Christian church either. I was baptized Mormon at 19. At one time Catholics accepted Mormon baptism as valid, but did a study on Mormon beliefs and felt it was necessary they be baptized to become Catholic. I think that was only prudent on the Catholic Church’s part because of the non-Trinitarian aspect of Mormonism. I think most Mormons believe in Christ in very much the same way Catholics do because I don’t think most Mormons have really given a lot of thought to their religion outside of the religion department at BYU.

 

[cbird]

The general consensus among Christians is that Mormons are not Christians. They deny most of the basic beliefs that all Christians - Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant - have always shared.

That doesn’t mean that Mormons are bad. Many of them are very nice people, but that doesn’t make them Christians. Some of the most wonderful people I’ve known have been non-Christians. The two concepts are unrelated.

Paul

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

Can anyone explain this bit to me? That the atonement happened in the garden at Gethsemane? I’d never heard of that particular Mormon belief.

Pax Vobiscum

I believe that the atonement began when the Blessed Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ, when God became a Man, and was indeed completed on the Cross.

“When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.”

(St John 19:30 KJV)

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

At one time Catholics accepted Mormon baptism as valid, but did a study on Mormon beliefs and felt it was necessary they be baptized to become Catholic. I think that was only prudent on the Catholic Church’s part because of the non-Trinitarian aspect of Mormonism. I think most Mormons believe in Christ in very much the same way Catholics do because I don’t think most Mormons have really given a lot of thought to their religion outside of the religion department at BYU.

I believe Pope John-Paul II during his Pontificate asserted the need for Mormons to be re-baptised in order to enter the RCC which I think is fair enough. However, if I were to be baptised by an atheist who used the accepted rubric would I then be able to enjoy full fellowship without re-baptism?

 

[BartBurk]

I believe Pope John-Paul II during his Pontificate asserted the need for Mormons to be re-baptised in order to enter the RCC which I think is fair enough. However, if I were to be baptised by an atheist who used the accepted rubric would I then be able to enjoy full fellowship without re-baptism?

My understanding is that such a baptism would only be valid if you were in danger of death. And if somehow you recovered after the baptism, it would still be necessary to go to a priest for a provisional baptism just in case the baptism by the atheist wasn’t valid.

 

[montague]

Dear Joe,

The baptismal prayer for those entering the Mormon Church is

“Having been comissioned of Jesus Christ, I baptise you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, Amen”

If the words are not spoken exactly the process has to be repeated until it has been. This has been the case since the establishment of the church in 1830.

I was baptised (Christened) with that wording as an adult, am I therefore a Christian?

With respect, almost all non LDS have a distorted notion of what the church believes and teaches about God and Jesus Christ, most of the drivel has been promoted by those who feel most threatened by this particular church.

Before I joined the LDS church I had been brought up in a home where religion was irrelevant, indeed my parents never had me Christened as a baby. Although religion was considered irrelevant I was brought up with a load of anti-Catholisicm. Now I know that if one wants to know the truth about any organisation then the best thing to do is to read/glean information that is approved by that particualr organisation. I think it is what Catholics call the Imprimatur.

As I wrote earlier I do not have an axe to grind, on the contrary, I now beleive that The Catholic Church is good and true; but I still contend that mormons are Christians.

its good to read from a person whom struggles with their faith yet does not have an axe to grind aginst it .

and I think that alot of non-lds could learn alot from these few lines

With respect, almost all non LDS have a distorted notion of what the church believes and teaches about God and Jesus Christ, most of the drivel has been promoted by those who feel most threatened by this particular church.

 

[montague]

My understanding is that such a baptism would only be valid if you were in danger of death. And if somehow you recovered after the baptism, it would still be necessary to go to a priest for a provisional baptism just in case the baptism by the atheist wasn’t valid.

So an atheist baptism as long as you die is good enough for God and for you to be saved, but if you live it’s not good enough for the catholic church .
I guess its because the priest does not wish to have his baptism fee taken away from him that a re-baptism is needed.

 

[BartBurk]

So an atheist baptism as long as you die is good enough for God and for you to be saved, but if you live it’s not good enough for the catholic church .
I guess its because the priest does not wish to have his baptism fee taken away from him that a re-baptism is needed.

I’m not sure how this all works. I know that some Mormons wanted to be rebaptized when they entered the Catholic Church prior to the time Mormon baptisms weren’t accepted. Those were always performed as provisional baptisms just in case the Mormon baptism was invalid.

When I was baptized, I did not have to pay the Catholic priest anything. Nobody even suggested it to me.

 

[majick275]

So an atheist baptism as long as you die is good enough for God and for you to be saved, but if you live it’s not good enough for the catholic church .
I guess its because the priest does not wish to have his baptism fee taken away from him that a re-baptism is needed.

where do you come up with this? I have never heard of a baptism fee.

 

[cbird]

Most of what I know about LDs is what I have heard from ex - Mormons on The Journey Home.
Also a friend who converted to Mormonism whenhe got married…Later, he reverted and brought his wife with him.

 

[Asa_Ben_Judah]

My understanding is that such a baptism would only be valid if you were in danger of death. And if somehow you recovered after the baptism, it would still be necessary to go to a priest for a provisional baptism just in case the baptism by the atheist wasn’t valid.

Thank you for this response. I know that when I can be recieved into the Catholic Church it has to be on the basis of Spirit and Truth.

This is to be my last word on this subject: it is vital to understand that no one can truly enter into a fully sacramental relationship with God unless one has a change of heart. That the things of this world are regarded as nothing compared to the riches of Justification and Reconcilliation which have been provided through the Sanctifying Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ who gave his back to the Scourge and his sinless body to the Cross.

I ask for your prayers that God will look into my heart and judge me for what can be found there rather than upon the label I am caused to wear at the present time.

*As for Philip, an angel of the Lord said to him, “Go south down the desert road that runs from Jerusalem to Gaza.” So he did, and he met the treasurer of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under the queen of Ethiopia. The eunuch had gone to Jerusalem to worship, and he was now returning. Seated in his carriage, he was reading aloud from the book of the prophet Isaiah. The Holy Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and walk along beside the carriage.” Philip ran over and heard the man reading from the prophet Isaiah; so he asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” The man replied, “How can I, when there is no one to instruct me?” And he begged Philip to come up into the carriage and sit with him. The passage of Scripture he had been reading was this: *
**
"He was led as a sheep to the slaughter. And as a lamb is silent before the shearers, he did not open his mouth. He was humiliated and received no justice. Who can speak of his descendants? For his life was taken from the earth."

The eunuch asked Philip, “Was Isaiah talking about himself or someone else?” So Philip began with this same Scripture and then used many others to tell him the Good News about Jesus. As they rode along, they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “Look! There’s some water! Why can’t I be baptized?” He ordered the carriage to stop, and they went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away. The eunuch never saw him again but went on his way rejoicing.

(Acts 8:27-39 NLT)

 

[montague]

where do you come up with this? I have never heard of a baptism fee.

I’m surprised that you have never heard of it , just like someone said they never heard of the re-churching of women after child birth ,

the fee is usually what is paid to the priest for his work on the day and is expected , also its the same when someone gets married and the amounts are on the increase. This is not made up and is regular practice in the catholic church in Ireland , but im sure it not only goes on here , and well if it does that opens up awhole other debate as to why.

and I nearly forgot the fee charged for funeral mass which I had the unfortunate experience of having to pay for in september 2006

it seems like the catholic charge you to get in and then charge you to get out . covered both ways isnt life great.