Mortal and Venial Sin

[dje101]

Where does the Catholic get it’s teaching on Mortal and Venial sin?

What is the difference?

Why does one automatically go to hell if they die in mortal sin?

Just a protestant-raised guy looking for answers to questions. If anyone can respond to these questions, then I’d be very grateful. Have a good day.

God Bless

 

[DavidFilmer]

Where does the Catholic get it’s teaching on Mortal and Venial sin?

Well, “mortal” means “unto death” and “venial” means “able to be forgiven - not seriously wrong.” (per dictionary.com)

The primary Biblical source would be 1 John 5:16-17 (NIV):

Suppose you see your brother or sister commit a sin. But that sin is not the kind that leads to death [not mortal]. Then you should pray for them [venial]. And God will give life to them. I’m talking about someone whose sin does not lead to death [venial]. But there is a sin that does lead to death [mortal]. I’m not saying that you should pray about that. Every wrong thing we do is sin. But there are sins that do not lead to death [venial].

The reason that we should not pray for one in a state of mortal sin (the ONLY time we are told NOT to pray for someone) is because it will do no good. The person must seek reconciliation himself from the Church, which has authority to forgive (or refuse forgiveness) of sin - John 20:23.

 

[dje101]

Well, “mortal” means “unto death” and “venial” means “able to be forgiven - not seriously wrong.”

The Biblical source would be 1 John 5:16-17 (NIV):

The reason that we should not pray for one in a state of mortal sin (the ONLY time we are told NOT to pray for someone) is because it will do no good. The person must seek reconciliation himself from the Church, which has authority to forgive (or refuse forgiveness) of sin - John 20:23.

I had always thought that verse meant physical death. How do we know that is not the case?

 

[dje101]

Well, “mortal” means “unto death” and “venial” means “able to be forgiven - not seriously wrong.”

The primary Biblical source would be 1 John 5:16-17 (NIV):

The reason that we should not pray for one in a state of mortal sin (the ONLY time we are told NOT to pray for someone) is because it will do no good. The person must seek reconciliation himself from the Church, which has authority to forgive (or refuse forgiveness) of sin - John 20:23.

Also, why can we NOT pray for them? Can’t we pray that God would speak to their heart and that they would seek forgiveness?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Also, why can we NOT pray for them? Can’t we pray that God would speak to their heart and that they would seek forgiveness?

A person in a state of mortal sin has willfully separated himself from the Grace of God. He is no longer in communion with God, by his own free will. God will not attempt to circumvent his free will by compelling him to seek forgiveness in any way (no matter how much we might implore God to do so). The sinner must turn again to God, using the same gift of free will that he used to turn away from God.

We can attempt to influence the sinner to turn to God, but we cannot ask God to do this for us, because he will not do so. We can do LOTS of things that God cannot do.

 

[dje101]

A person in a state of mortal sin has willfully separated himself from the Grace of God. He is no longer in communion with God, by his own free will. God will not attempt to circumvent his free will by compelling him to seek forgiveness in any way (no matter how much we might implore God to do so). The sinner must turn again to God, using the same gift of free will that he used to turn away from God.

We can attempt to influence the sinner to turn to God, but we cannot ask God to do this for us, because he will not do so. We can do LOTS of things that God cannot do.

So what constitutes a mortal sin? How do I know if I’ve committed a mortal sin?

Same questions for venial sin as well. Thanks

 

[DavidFilmer]

I had always thought that verse meant physical death. How do we know that is not the case?

Um, because Charlie Sheen is not dead? If sin lead to *physical *death, we would have very few actors, rock stars, etc.

 

[stephe1987]

catholic.com/library/Mortal_Sin.asp

 

[dje101]

Um, because Charlie Sheen is not dead? If sin lead to *physical *death, we would have very few actors, rock stars, etc.

lol. No, I meant…I thought that he was referring to sins that would have gotten him in trouble with the state and that would lead to the death penalty.

 

[DavidFilmer]

So what constitutes a mortal sin? How do I know if I’ve committed a mortal sin?

Ah, that’s a very good question!

The answer is - you CAN’T. NOBODY can know if they are in a state of Grace. This is DOCTRINE.

ONLY God knows if a particular action constitutes mortal sin. I might kill somebody, and you might kill somebody, but I might be guilty of mortal sin, and you might be guilty of no sin at all - only God knows the difference.

That is one reason why the Church encourages frequent Confession. Technically, Confession is only required (and not quite required, but that’s another topic) if we are in a state of mortal sin. If we die with a hundred trillion venial sins upon our conscience (and no mortal sin) we are assured heaven. But we cannot say (even for ourselves) if we are in a state of grace (ie, absent mortal sin). So, surely nobody *else *can tell us (and we cannot be assured of the state of any other person - “judge not, lest you be judged”).

 

[DavidFilmer]

lol. No, I meant…I thought that he was referring to sins that would have gotten him in trouble with the state and that would lead to the death penalty.

The United States is the only first-world country that still exercises the death penalty.

By your reasoning, you could not commit a mortal sin in Mexico, since there is no state-sanctioned death penalty there.

God’s laws are not dependent upon man’s laws.

 

[dje101]

Ah, that’s a very good question!

The answer is - you CAN’T. NOBODY can know if they are in a state of Grace. This is DOCTRINE.

ONLY God knows if a particular action constitutes mortal sin. I might kill somebody, and you might kill somebody, but I might be guilty of mortal sin, and you might be guilty of no sin at all - only God knows the difference.

That is one reason why the Church encourages frequent Confession. Technically, Confession is only required (and not quite required, but that’s another topic) if we are in a state of mortal sin. If we die with a hundred trillion venial sins upon our conscience (and no mortal sin) we are assured heaven. But we cannot say (even for ourselves) if we are in a state of grace (ie, absent mortal sin). So, surely nobody *else *can tell us (and we cannot be assured of the state of any other person - “judge not, lest you be judged”).

Well we can know that those are sins because God has explicitly told us not to murder, right?

So are there “general guidelines” for determining venial and mortal sin?

 

[DavidFilmer]

Well we can know that those are sins because God has explicitly told us not to murder, right?

Actually, God has *commanded *people to kill other people (and there is an active thread on this forum discussing this topic, so I won’t go into detail here).

So are there “general guidelines” for determining venial and mortal sin?

Yes, there are guidelines (but only God knows if each of the conditions are met).

A sin is “mortal” only if it meets three conditions (and no less):

1. 
   *]The offense must be of a serious nature (such as a violation of one of the Ten Commandments).
   *]I must have full awareness of the seriousness of the offense at the time.
   *]I must freely and willfully commit the offense despite this knowledge.
   
   But, again, only God can know if these conditions are met.

 

[dje101]

Hey DavidFilmer, thanks for your reply with the general requirements for Mortal Sin.

In John 20:19-23:

On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus cam and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you!”. After he said this, he showed them his hands and side. The disciples were overjoyed when they saw the Lord.

Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgie anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.(NIV)

It says that the disciples were together, not the 12. So how come only the priests can do confessions?

Also, what is the difference between absolution and forgiveness during the confession? Can’t I just ask God to forgive me for my sins?

 

[DavidFilmer]

In John 20:19-23: It says that the disciples were together, not the 12.

Yes, Judas was absent, as well as Thomas (but Thomas was brought into the picture a short time later).

So how come only the priests can do confessions?

Well, Bishops can do so as well. This seems to be a different topic than the one you asked about.

Also, what is the difference between absolution and forgiveness during the confession?

There is no difference - the terms mean the same thing.

Can’t I just ask God to forgive me for my sins?

Yes, you can (and that’s why I said that Confession is not “*quite *required”). But, again, I say that is another topic. You have asked about the distinction between mortal and venial sin, and I believe this question has been answered.

Feel free to open another thread to question the possibility of forgiveness of mortal sin outside of Sacramental Confession. If you want to study beforehand, search the forum for the topic of “perfect contrition” (or “true contrition”) and “invincible ignorance.”

 

[DavidFilmer]

  Quote:
                                                                  Originally Posted by **dje101**                     [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=7709055#post7709055)                 
             *Also, what is the difference  between absolution and forgiveness during the confession?*

There is no difference - the terms mean the same thing.

Actually, I should probably clarify - absolution is what the priest (or Bishop) does, and forgiveness is what God does (God has promised to honor the intent of the priest or Bishop). I should have said there is no difference “as far as we are concerned.”

 

[Cat_Herder]

So what constitutes a mortal sin? How do I know if I’ve committed a mortal sin?

Same questions for venial sin as well. Thanks

There are 3 elements to a mortal sin:

[BIBLEDRB]Revelation 21:8[/BIBLEDRB]

1. Grave matter

[BIBLEDRB]Hebrews 10:26-27[/BIBLEDRB]

1. Full knowledge
2. Willful consent

 

[JRKH]

Where does the Catholic get it’s teaching on Mortal and Venial sin?

Already a lot of good information given so I won’t rehash, but obviously a lot of it comes drectly from the Bible and is built on from there.

What is the difference?

Why does one automatically go to hell if they die in mortal sin?

The basic difference is in the degree of sin - or error…
The Greek and Hebrew terms that are tranlated as “Sin” are…
**Chata’ **(Hebrew)
to sin, miss, miss the way, go wrong, incur guilt, forfeit, purify from uncleanness
Hamartano, (Greek)
To be without a share in; to miss the mark; to err, be mistaken; to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honor; to do or go wrong; to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin
Note the undelined meanings…Sin is not simply violating some “Law” as in cimmitting a crime, Sin goes deeper than that. It is wrong thinking…Mortal sin is deeplywrong thinking.

A Sin is mortal when it involves an explicit or implict rejection of God, and of his Salvic plan for you. A turning away…

The reason one goes “automatically to hell” is because this is what one has chosen…

Just a protestant-raised guy looking for answers to questions. If anyone can respond to these questions, then I’d be very grateful. Have a good day.

God Bless

Glad to contribute…

Peace
James

 

[dje101]

Yes, Judas was absent, as well as Thomas (but Thomas was brought into the picture a short time later).

Well, Bishops can do so as well. This seems to be a different topic than the one you asked about.

There is no difference - the terms mean the same thing.

Yes, you can (and that’s why I said that Confession is not “*quite *required”). But, again, I say that is another topic. You have asked about the distinction between mortal and venial sin, and I believe this question has been answered.

Feel free to open another thread to question the possibility of forgiveness of mortal sin outside of Sacramental Confession. If you want to study beforehand, search the forum for the topic of “perfect contrition” (or “true contrition”) and “invincible ignorance.”

Sorry bout the change in topics, I just thought I could throw them in real quick since it applied to confession and the forgiveness of mortal and venial sins.

 

[dje101]

So what constitutes a venial sin?

I had been taught that sin is sin, and God hates sin. Plain and simple.