Mortal sin or just sin

[ALLFORHIM]

This sounds very Catholic to me…it’s nice to see how much we have in common…God bless.

 

[Atemi]

There is scriptural support for the idea in 1 John 5:16, which discusses and distinguishes between two levels of sin - sin that is ‘unto death’ (clearly spiritual death, since sin doesn’t always kill the body!) and sin that is ‘NOT unto death’ (which is clearly a lot less serious).

I don’t know if you realize it, but you offer a contradiction here.

John pointed out that some sins do kill the body and some do not. He meant it literally, referring to physical death.

Even on a commonsense level, it should be clear that not all sin is equally serious, and that taking a dollar from your mother’s purse can’t possibly have the same spiritual consequences as stealing a hundred thousand from your boss’s bank account.

All sins are not equally serious, but all sins separate us from God.

All sin separates us from a Holy God.

There is no “venial” sin in Heaven.

 

[Sabda]

I don’t know if you realize it, but you offer a contradiction here.

John pointed out that some sins do kill the body and some do not. He meant it literally, referring to physical death.

All sins are not equally serious, but all sins separate us from God.

All sin separates us from a Holy God.

There is no “venial” sin in Heaven.

What happens to the soul that does not make to heaven? Does it die? Yes, all sin IS wrongdoing but not all sins are deadly. Look at the passage closer, I put it below. Trying to say that he is referring to a physical death puts you in a real tough spot since we ALL DIE a physical death!! John is referring to a spiritual death. Not physical, because we all die a physical death! He says in that passage that some sins are deadly and some are not he is not referring to the deadly sins but those that are not deadly. By saying he is referring to a physical death means that every single one of us commits this sin! Why would he bother pointing out the differences in sin if the sin we commit is going to have the same effect in that we will all die? What your really saying is either:

A. We ALL go to heaven sense we all physically die
or
B. We ALL go to hell sense we all physically die

Your not allowing for the fact that Jesus clearly taught about some of us will go to heaven and some of us will go to hell.

However, if you look at it from the point of meaning a spiritual death it makes a lot more sense. Not all of us are going to heaven. Some of us will go to hell. Those who go to heaven have eternal life. In other words they are alive! So do those that go to hell have life? Not eternal life, therefore they must die some sort of a death. John is saying here that the deadly sin will kill your chance of eternal life. In other words that sin will send you to hell. You won’t go to heaven.

1 John 5
16 If anyone sees his brother sinning, if the sin is not deadly, he should pray to God and he will give him life. This is only for those whose sin is not deadly. There is such a thing as deadly sin, about which I do not say that you should pray.
17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not deadly.

 

[rciadan]

I have not yet had much time to put it together in a presentable format:but, I said I would hae something by now so I’ll just skim the surface.

Paul tells us in Romans that sin, and death, came into the world through one man. Adam met all the prerequisites, you might say, for the sin he committed upon eating the fruit to be a mortal sin and, therefore, a sin that caused immediate separation from divine grace. Eve on the other hand, we know to have been deceived. Plus, it is evident from her explanation of God’s words conceerning eating of the fruit that she did not really understand. Add these two items together and you come up with the understanding that Eve did not have the three conditions for her sin to be mortal, thus, while she did sin, it did not cause immediate separation from divine grace. Her sin was not unto death as was Adams. How it is that, even though Eve sinned first it was Adams sin that brought death into the world, only really makes sense in the context of the reality of mortal and venial sin.

That wa kind of short and I am in the process of going deeper into the justification for this line of thought; but, for now I’m outa time.

God bless you all and I hoin my prayers to all of yours for the family and friends of those who died yesterday in Virginia.

 

[terri_fortner]

Mortal means deadly, as in a mortal wound. So a sin that leads to death (spiritual death) is a mortal sin (dealdy sin).

Don’t all sins lead to spiritual death? Unless they are confessed and honestly repented of? I am more confused now than I was when I started reading this thread. How can you say that any one sin out weighs another. Theya re all sins, they all lead to spiritual death, and it is my opinion that they all should be repented of, and confessed. How is that wrong? Please explain this to me, because I really do not understand

 

[Tom]

Don’t all sins lead to spiritual death? Unless they are confessed and honestly repented of? I am more confused now than I was when I started reading this thread. How can you say that any one sin out weighs another. Theya re all sins, they all lead to spiritual death, and it is my opinion that they all should be repented of, and confessed. How is that wrong? Please explain this to me, because I really do not understand

Perhaps an example may help. I’m driving along and see a homeless man with a sign, “need food”. My responses are

1. I completely ignore the man, muttering something hateful under my breath.
2. I pray for the man.
3. I stop at a fast food establishment, buy the man some food and bring it to him, while on the way praying for his well being.
4. I aim my car at the man, run him over, kill him thinking I just improved society.
   I would say three out of four of my responses (even the one where I simply prayed for him) were sin. Since three out of four are not what Jesus taught me, therefore I refused to do the will of God. However all three were not equal in the eyes of God. I would say only praying for the man was a venial sin. God expects more, He told me so, I just didn’t want to hear. I did the most important part, but didn’t do the rest. He demands I do it all. Where I completely ignored the man, I also completely ignored the Words of Jesus, what so ever you do to the least of my brothers that you do unto me. James points out faith without action is dead. Of course no one would question running the man over and killing him was a sin, but who would really argue that God views simply praying for him equal to killing him?

 

[terri_fortner]

I would say three out of four of my responses (even the one where I simply prayed for him) were sin. Since three out of four are not what Jesus taught me, therefore I refused to do the will of God.

Okat now I am really confused. What if you cannot afford to spend the money to buy him food? Wouldn’t praying for him, but also praying that God show you something that you can do to help him be enough? Assuming you do what God reveals to you. I get paid once a month on the first of the month. i pay my tithes, I pay my bills go tot the Grocery store for the month and I plan my outtings so I do not waste gas. I am lucky if I have $3.00 left in the bank when I get paid again. I am sure that there is something other than just buying this man food that might even help him more. What if he doesn’t really want food. I have had that happen before I had a man tell me he was hungery, and asked me for change, I didn’t have any money but I had half a Subway sandwich I was oging ot eat for Dinner. I gave it to him, and hwen i came out of hte place I went into the sandwich was on the ground, alond witht he bag, and I remembered that I had put the 15 cents change in the bottom. I was not only hurt, but angery. That was my dinner laying on the ground and I went hungery that night becuase of that man. Maybe if I had tried to point him to an outreach center or something I might have done more for him. But this is all off topic.

I still do not understand how one sin is more of a sin than any other, aren’t they all sins.
I have been pondering about the sins that we commit unknowingly. And I think these too have to be confessed as well, as soon as we realize they are sin. I am not talking about in a booth with a priest. When I say confessed, I mean from your mouth to God’s ears. In all forms that action takes.

 

[Greg27]

The newer penitential manual basically divides grave sins and lesser sins according to how they destroy or damage our relationship with God. Clearly if you murder or rape someone, use child porn or have sex with a prostitute, or steal a very valuable thing or engage in armed robbery, under civil law these are regarded as very serious crimes which severely damage the person who does it and their relationship with other people and society as a whole. The graver the crime, the more damage done to society, other people, and human relationships, as can be seen in the criminal penalties for various crimes. Likewise in theology it is with God; the worse the sin, the more harm it does to the relationships we have with God and with those in the worshipping community in communion with each other and the church leadership. So just as stealing a lolly might get you doing some hours of community service, but robbing a store and bashing the owner will get you a jail sentence, so a venial sin might harm your relationship but not destroy it, while a mortal one kills your relationship with God in a crippling and profound way.

 

[terri_fortner]

I understand the idea, but here is where I have trouble with it…

James 2:10 For the person who keeps all of the laws except one is as guilty as a person who has broken all of God’s laws.

So I ask again How can one out-weigh another in Gods eyes if they are all sins and they all sever your relationship with God, unless they are confessed and repented of?

Who do some sins have to be confessed to a priest and some not? Or am I mistaken in this understanding (I am not Catholic, but I am researching it).

 

[Tom]

Okat now I am really confused. What if you cannot afford to spend the money to buy him food?

Terri, my responses were for me personally. I can afford to buy the man food, I can also afford a computer, internet access, a car, car insurance and gas and still have money left over. If you cannot afford food for the man, of course it would not be a sin, excuse me for saying, this seems very argumentative, “what if”. God will judge us on what we do with the gifts He has given us, to the one who has much, much will be expected. He has given me very much, therefore He (and I) expect a lot. I won’t be judged by what other people think I’ve done with the gifts God has given me, I will be judged by God.

 

[Tom]

Wouldn’t praying for him, but also praying that God show you something that you can do to help him be enough? Assuming you do what God reveals to you.

You’re asking me to make a judgment that God will make. I can’t. I don’t know your heart, God does, He will judge, not me.

 

[Tom]

What if he doesn’t really want food.

Again, “what if”. How do you think God would judge your action? Do you think God will care if the man needed the food, or will He care that you followed His Word? Your goal should be to please God, not the man.

 

[Tom]

I have had that happen before I had a man tell me he was hungery, and asked me for change, I didn’t have any money but I had half a Subway sandwich I was oging ot eat for Dinner. I gave it to him, and hwen i came out of hte place I went into the sandwich was on the ground, alond witht he bag, and I remembered that I had put the 15 cents change in the bottom. I was not only hurt, but angery. That was my dinner laying on the ground and I went hungery that night becuase of that man. Maybe if I had tried to point him to an outreach center or something I might have done more for him. But this is all off topic.

I’ve had similar situations, not that the person threw away the food, but they refused the food. Let me ask you a question. God views you, who gave the very most, even to the point of self depravation and it was rejected by the man, and I gave so very little compared to what He has given me, which act, yours or mine would God judge as more worthy? I’ll give you a hint, it’s mentioned over and over again is Scripture. It isn’t the end result that is important, it’s what we do from the heart. If you have a hundred thousand dollars and give away ten to the poor, is far different than if you have ten and give it all away to the poor, isn’t it?

 

[Tom]

I have been pondering about the sins that we commit unknowingly. And I think these too have to be confessed as well, as soon as we realize they are sin.

If they are “unknowing” they probably aren’t sin at all. A sin requires knowledge.

 

[Tom]

I am not talking about in a booth with a priest. When I say confessed, I mean from your mouth to God’s ears. In all forms that action takes.

Why would you reject a gift God has given you? God gives us the gift of reconciliation. He gives the Bishops the power to forgive sin, it’s in Scripture. Why would you say “no thank you” to Gods gift? Do you feel you you’ve got a better way than God gave you? Seems a little prideful if I might say. Yes this is getting off subject, please excuse me.

 

[terri_fortner]

Only those who have been called by God can hear him, and until God calls someone they will not see the light. You are right it is prideful of YOU to assume you know my heart and what I think and my relationship with God. That is between me and Him. As for confession to a priest, that is not something I was taught to do, but you are, as a Christian (all denominations), taught to confess all your sins. If I am worng about it then please correct me, but Catholics only have to confess certain sins to a priest, others can be done on their own.

I confess my sins to The Priest, or Rabbi, who started it all and He has forgiven me.

 

[JimG]

If all sins are equal, why do we get so outraged about child molesters, rapists, and multiple murderers, but do not show the same level of outrage against someone who steals a pencil from the office, or speaks rudely to a salesclerk? Sin is sin.

And why does Paul condemn things like fornication and murder, saying such persons will not inherit the kingdom of heaven, and yet not make the same statement about his own sins, or about petty quarrelling among Christians? Sin is sin.

Someone mentioned King David, whom we hope to meet in heaven even though he is an adulterer. King David did repent. Would he be in heaven if he had refused to repent? He might have said, “OK, so I committed adultery. But I’m already saved, so no problem. I’m still glad I did it. And hey, I’ve done a lot of small sins every day of my life, and they are just as bad as adultery. So why are you condemning me for just that one?”

 

[Tom]

Only those who have been called by God can hear him, and until God calls someone they will not see the light. You are right it is prideful of YOU to assume you know my heart and what I think and my relationship with God. That is between me and Him. As for confession to a priest, that is not something I was taught to do, but you are, as a Christian (all denominations), taught to confess all your sins. If I am worng about it then please correct me, but Catholics only have to confess certain sins to a priest, others can be done on their own.

I confess my sins to The Priest, or Rabbi, who started it all and He has forgiven me.

Completely off subject but, confession and reconcilliation to a priest (by the authority given to a bishop (Apostle) by Jesus Himself) are straight from Scripture, Jesus instituted it. There are several threads concerning this. Just as a point, it was you who brought up confession to a priest, not I.