Mortification of the flesh

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Dear Houston

I hope all men be saved. However I fear few will be saved and that’s why I was pleading for prayers as I firmly believe I am on the precipice.

This is what lots of visions of the Saints seem to attest i.e. that many are damned. I hope they are wrong. I fear they are unerringly right.

Dear brother in Christ

I live in constant fear of hell too - Join the club. I believe my biggest temptation is to despair and give up.

Obviously I hope this fear of hell will eventually cede to a greater love of God and inner peace. However, fear of Hell and Love of God are by no means mutually exclusive.

I will add you to my meagre petitions but remember living in fear of hell (but not succumbing to depair) is better than presumption.
I will pray for you, too. Thanks for your prayers. I was going to take a nap today but after reading all of this. Forget it! :eek: This will be one of my penances for today. I hope and pray for all people to be saved. Let us all do penance and offer up our suffering!

I’m a lady btw, wife and mother of one son.
 
I will pray for you, too. Thanks for your prayers. I was going to take a nap today but after reading all of this. Forget it! :eek: This will be one of my penances for today. I hope and pray for all people to be saved. Let us all do penance and offer up our suffering!

I’m a lady btw, wife and mother of one son.
Amen. Giving up sleep is true penance indeed. I find sleep and coffee are the hardest for me to go without! My state in life is husband with one son…Although I think God will soon send us some more children soon…plenty of opportunity for penance (and joy of course). 🙂
 
Yes, let us all do penance and offer up our suffering as a gift for the Lord!

😃
 
Yes, let us all do penance and offer up our suffering as a gift for the Lord!

😃
I like your John Vianney quote earlier in this thread. I have been reading his sermons before bed each night…true masterpieces
 
I like your John Vianney quote earlier in this thread. I have been reading his sermons before bed each night…true masterpieces
I have a book of his sermons as well, and I agree, very good reading before night!

He reminds me of St. Alphonsus Maria de Liguori.

St. Jean Marie Vianney was a devotee of St. Philomena you know! 🙂

'Our body is a vessel of corruption; it is meant for death and for the worms, nothing more! And yet we devote ourselves to satisfying it, rather than to enriching our soul, which is so great that we can conceive nothing greater – no, nothing, nothing! For we see that God, urged by the ardor of His love, would not create us like the animals; He has created us in His own image and likeness, do you see? Oh, how great is man!

Man, being created by love, cannot live without love: either he loves God, for he loves himself and he loves the world. See, my children, it is faith that we want. . . . When we have not faith, we are blind. He who does not see, does not know; he who does not know does not love; he who does not love God loves himself, and at the same time loves his pleasures. He fixes his heart on things which pass away like smoke. He cannot know the truth, nor any good thing; he can know nothing but falsehood, because he has no light; he is in a mist. If he had light, he would see plainly that all that he loves can give him nothing but eternal death; it is a foretaste of Hell.’

‘Do you see, my children, except God, nothing is solid – nothing, nothing! If it is life, it passes away; if it is a fortune, it crumbles away; if it is health, it is destroyed; if it is reputation, it is attacked. We are scattered like the wind. . . . Everything is passing away full speed, everything is going to ruin. O God! O God! how much those are to be pitied, then, who set their hearts on all these things!’

‘A Christian who is pure is upon earth like a bird that is kept fastened down by a string. Poor little bird! it only waits for the moment when the string is cut to fly away.’

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars
 
Disclaimer: These Cilice belts are intended as collector’s items for display purposes only.
This, from the cilice website cited earlier. Gotta have the legal stuff covered.
 
I will pray for you, too. Thanks for your prayers. I was going to take a nap today but after reading all of this. Forget it! :eek: This will be one of my penances for today. I hope and pray for all people to be saved. Let us all do penance and offer up our suffering!

I’m a lady btw, wife and mother of one son.
If you love the Lord and go to Confession whenever you deliberately commit a very serious sin, you have nothing to fear. The problem is that so many people don’t practice the Church’s teaching, go to Confession, or love the Lord. Many people don’t care at all about religion. These are the people that are in great danger. And there are so many disobedient and godless people out there! That is why so many are going to Hell!

Catholics who love God and follow the Church’s teachings to the best of their ability are not in great danger. They have great cause to hope and rejoice, for God’s Mercy covers everyone who comes to God and tries to do His will.

I sometimes think to myself that the Sacrament of Confession is next thing to a guarantee of salvation. It is very hard for someone to make use of Confession on a regular basis and yet sever themselves from God’s Mercy. It is also very hard for someone who truly loves God to be damned. But we grow in the love of God throughout our Christian lives, if we continue growing in Christ as we should. God understands that we start out weak, with little faith and love, and possibly only fear of Hell. As we seek deeper relationships with Him, if we trust Him, He helps us to become more in love with Him and with one another over time. Yet while we are children, weak and fearful, He treats us as any good parent would treat his children, with mercy. He always understands our weakness and never ceases to love us, no matter how we sin.

One thing that helps us to grow in the love of God is to try thanking Him for all the good things He has given us. Prayerful thanksgiving on a regular basis really helps us to see how good and loving He is. We also know that He is always working for the salvation of all men. He even sent His Son to die on the Cross so that we might all be saved, if we will only come to Him for His Mercy so that He can save us. He won’t force anyone to come to HIm and repent of their sins, for this would destroy our Free Will, but He does call on all of us to do just that. The reason so many are going to Hell is because so many refuse to do that, do not want to be with God on this Earth, do not want to be near Him or obedient to His Church. They don’t want to do what’s right. Jesus is what’s right. So when they leave what’s right, they leave Him, and though Jesus tries to convince them to stay with Him, He lets them go if they insist on leaving Him, and these souls fall into Hell.

But you, if you are making use of Confession, obeying the Church and trying to grow in your relationship with God, you are among those people that are in the least danger of falling into Hell. Those that deliberately turn away from God and from what is right are the ones that are in grave danger, not those that accidentally make mistakes.

This isn’t a horrible game of chance, where maybe we’ll go to Heaven, but the odds are we will be damned. That is not the way it works at all. There is no chance involved. Those that are deliberately rebelling against God are damned and those that are truly seeking God are saved.

The problem is that there are many who are deliberately rebelling against God, and that is why many are damned. But if you go to Confession, obey the Church and seek the Lord, you are not deliberately rebelling but are sincerely seeking God and to do what is right. Therefore you are a faithful daughter of the Church and will be saved. The same is true for John of Woking (except the “daughter” part).

We have little reason for fear but much reason to rejoice, for God is in our hearts and we are on a journey to Heaven. Let us therefore simply try to live for Him and grow in Him, and be glad, out of faith that God will indeed bring us all the way to the Paradise He prepared with you in mind from eternity.
 
If you love the Lord and go to Confession whenever you deliberately commit a very serious sin, you have nothing to fear. The problem is that so many people don’t practice the Church’s teaching, go to Confession, or love the Lord. Many people don’t care at all about religion. These are the people that are in great danger. And there are so many disobedient and godless people out there! That is why so many are going to Hell!

Catholics who love God and follow the Church’s teachings to the best of their ability are not in great danger. They have great cause to hope and rejoice, for God’s Mercy covers everyone who comes to God and tries to do His will.

I sometimes think to myself that the Sacrament of Confession is next thing to a guarantee of salvation. It is very hard for someone to make use of Confession on a regular basis and yet sever themselves from God’s Mercy. It is also very hard for someone who truly loves God to be damned. But we grow in the love of God throughout our Christian lives, if we continue growing in Christ as we should. God understands that we start out weak, with little faith and love, and possibly only fear of Hell. As we seek deeper relationships with Him, if we trust Him, He helps us to become more in love with Him and with one another over time. Yet while we are children, weak and fearful, He treats us as any good parent would treat his children, with mercy. He always understands our weakness and never ceases to love us, no matter how we sin.

One thing that helps us to grow in the love of God is to try thanking Him for all the good things He has given us. Prayerful thanksgiving on a regular basis really helps us to see how good and loving He is. We also know that He is always working for the salvation of all men. He even sent His Son to die on the Cross so that we might all be saved, if we will only come to Him for His Mercy so that He can save us. He won’t force anyone to come to HIm and repent of their sins, for this would destroy our Free Will, but He does call on all of us to do just that. The reason so many are going to Hell is because so many refuse to do that, do not want to be with God on this Earth, do not want to be near Him or obedient to His Church. They don’t want to do what’s right. Jesus is what’s right. So when they leave what’s right, they leave Him, and though Jesus tries to convince them to stay with Him, He lets them go if they insist on leaving Him, and these souls fall into Hell.

But you, if you are making use of Confession, obeying the Church and trying to grow in your relationship with God, you are among those people that are in the least danger of falling into Hell. Those that deliberately turn away from God and from what is right are the ones that are in grave danger, not those that accidentally make mistakes.

. . . .

We have little reason for fear but much reason to rejoice, for God is in our hearts and we are on a journey to Heaven. Let us therefore simply try to live for Him and grow in Him, and be glad, out of faith that God will indeed bring us all the way to the Paradise He prepared with you in mind from eternity.
Lief Erikson,

I appreciate your encouraging words. Your ideas are logical and I am sure that they are true. I will also go to confession more frequently and make more prayers of thanksgiving, like you say.

My worry mainly concerns “sins of omission.” For example, when Jesus says when “you saw me hungry, you gave me a drink”, etc. etc. I always feel that I can be doing more for the Lord. I always get caught up in maintaining my home and dealing with domestic concerns. I also have a difficult time giving up “good tasting” food like ice cream and chocolate . . . and beer! I feel that the Lord is calling me to do more penance but I am resisting his call to this. I have made some progress lately and I know it is through his grace that I have been able to do this.

I just recently watched the movie, “Monsieur Vincent,” about St. Vincent de Paul and I can clearly see that I have done very little for the Lord. Even St. Vincent de Paul acknowledged at the end of his life that he had slept too much and haven’t done enough (or so he thought!). As an old man, he realized that he could survive on 4 hours of sleep each night. Yikes!:eek: I don’t know if I could just sleep 4 hours a night. I’m having trouble giving up napping as it is.

With all of this in mind, I know that the Lord meets us where we are. I’m just struggling with the call to holiness. I am also flabbergasted that anyone would deliberately turn away from God if they knew the reality of hell. I would think that most people do not realize that their sins are as serious as they are. So, in this way, do people “accidently” go to hell? It is so easy to get caught up with what the world expects - e.g., fornication is acceptable and promoted in many cases. A lot of people do not understand the gravity of the situation. Do they then go to hell anyway? I am having trouble understanding a situation where someone has “full knowledge” of their sin. Someone can know something is wrong but do they fully understand the gravity of the sin - that that particular sin would send them to hell?

I appreciate your thoughts as well as anyone else’s.
 
As long as you are making progress… slow or step by step… you can look at that…

Step by step… two steps forwards… one step back… progress. . .

Act of Charity
from the Small Roman Missal

As the hart panteth after the fountains of water, so my soul panteth after Thee, O God! “My soul hath thirsted after the strong, living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God?” “For what have I in heaven? And besides Thee, what do I desire on earth?” Let blind and infatuated worldlings intoxicate themselves with the false, transient, and fading happiness of this life; for my part, nothing besides Thyself can content me, either in heaven or on earth. Come then, O Thou Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world! Come, Thou beloved of my heart! Adorable Flesh and precious Blood of my Saviour! Come, to nourish, comfort, and enliven my sickly soul. O God of my heart! Let me neither love, seek, nor think of any other object but Thyself alone; for Thou alone art my consolation, my treasure, my joy, my life, my all!

“My heart and my flesh have rejoiced in the living God… Thou art, O Lord of hosts! My King and my God!” “Who will give me wings like a dove and I will fly and be at rest!”
 
"Besides denying self in regard to sight, hearing, speaking, in the senses of taste and smell, I tried also to perform some acts of mortification, such as taking the discipline on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays, and wearing the cilice on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. If, however, I found that circumstances of time and place did not favor these modes of penance, I used to practice some other form of mortification, as for example: praying with the arms stretched out in the form of a cross, or with the fingers under the knees. I know very well that worldly people and those who have not the spirit of Jesus Christ make little of, and even disapprove of, these mortifications. But for my part, I keep in mind the teaching laid down by St. John of the Cross which states: “If anyone affirms that one can reach perfection without practicing exterior mortification, do not believe him; and even though he confirm this assertion by working miracles, know that his contentions are nothing but illusions.”

As for me, I look to St. Paul for my example, for he mortified himself, and said publicly: “Castigo corpus meum et in servitutem redigo, ne forte cum aliis praedicaverim ipse reprobus efficiar – I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps when I have preached to others I myself may become a castaway.” All the saints until now have done in like manner. Venerable Rodriquez says that the Blessed Virgin said to St. Elizabeth of Hungary, that no spiritual grace comes to the soul, commonly speaking, except by way of prayer and bodily afflictions. There is an old principle which goes: “Da mihi sanguinem et dabo tibi spiritum.” Woe to those who are enemies of mortification and of the cross of Christ!

In one act of mortification one can practice many virtues, according to the different ends which one proposes in each act, as for example:
  1. He who mortifies his body for the purpose of checking concupiscence, performs an act of the virtue of temperance.
  2. If he does this, purposing thereby to regulate his life well, it will be an act of the virtue of prudence.
  3. If he mortifies himself for the purpose of satisfying for the sins of his past life, it will be an act of justice.
  4. If he does it with the intention of conquering the difficulties of the spiritual life, it will be an act of fortitude.
  5. If he practices this virtue of mortification for the end of offering a sacrifice to God, depriving himself of what he likes, and doing that which is bitter and repugnant to nature, it will be an act of the virtue of religion.
  6. If he intends by mortification to receive greater light to know the divine attributes, it will be an act of faith.
  7. If he does it for the purpose of making his salvation more and more secure, it will be an act of hope.
  8. If he denies himself in order to help in the conversion of sinners, and for the release of the poor souls in purgatory, it will be an act of charity towards his neighbor.
  9. If he does it so as to help the poor, it will be an act of mercy.
  10. If he mortifies himself for the sake of pleasing God more and more, it will be an act of love of God.
In other words, I shall be able to put all these virtues into practice in one act of mortification, according to the end I propose to myself while doing the said act. "
 
As long as you are making progress… slow or step by step… you can look at that…

Step by step… two steps forwards… one step back… progress. . .

Act of Charity
from the Small Roman Missal

As the hart panteth after the fountains of water, so my soul panteth after Thee, O God! “My soul hath thirsted after the strong, living God; when shall I come and appear before the face of God?” “For what have I in heaven? And besides Thee, what do I desire on earth?” Let blind and infatuated worldlings intoxicate themselves with the false, transient, and fading happiness of this life; for my part, nothing besides Thyself can content me, either in heaven or on earth. Come then, O Thou Lamb of God, Who takest away the sins of the world! Come, Thou beloved of my heart! Adorable Flesh and precious Blood of my Saviour! Come, to nourish, comfort, and enliven my sickly soul. O God of my heart! Let me neither love, seek, nor think of any other object but Thyself alone; for Thou alone art my consolation, my treasure, my joy, my life, my all!

“My heart and my flesh have rejoiced in the living God… Thou art, O Lord of hosts! My King and my God!” “Who will give me wings like a dove and I will fly and be at rest!”
Shin,

Thanks for the quote. I suppose we cannot be at rest until we see our Lord.
 
If you love the Lord and go to Confession whenever you deliberately commit a very serious sin, you have nothing to fear. The problem is that so many people don’t practice the Church’s teaching, go to Confession, or love the Lord. Many people don’t care at all about religion. These are the people that are in great danger. And there are so many disobedient and godless people out there! That is why so many are going to Hell!

Catholics who love God and follow the Church’s teachings to the best of their ability are not in great danger. They have great cause to hope and rejoice, for God’s Mercy covers everyone who comes to God and tries to do His will.

I sometimes think to myself that the Sacrament of Confession is next thing to a guarantee of salvation. It is very hard for someone to make use of Confession on a regular basis and yet sever themselves from God’s Mercy. It is also very hard for someone who truly loves God to be damned. But we grow in the love of God throughout our Christian lives, if we continue growing in Christ as we should. God understands that we start out weak, with little faith and love, and possibly only fear of Hell. As we seek deeper relationships with Him, if we trust Him, He helps us to become more in love with Him and with one another over time. Yet while we are children, weak and fearful, He treats us as any good parent would treat his children, with mercy. He always understands our weakness and never ceases to love us, no matter how we sin.

One thing that helps us to grow in the love of God is to try thanking Him for all the good things He has given us. Prayerful thanksgiving on a regular basis really helps us to see how good and loving He is. We also know that He is always working for the salvation of all men. He even sent His Son to die on the Cross so that we might all be saved, if we will only come to Him for His Mercy so that He can save us. He won’t force anyone to come to HIm and repent of their sins, for this would destroy our Free Will, but He does call on all of us to do just that. The reason so many are going to Hell is because so many refuse to do that, do not want to be with God on this Earth, do not want to be near Him or obedient to His Church. They don’t want to do what’s right. Jesus is what’s right. So when they leave what’s right, they leave Him, and though Jesus tries to convince them to stay with Him, He lets them go if they insist on leaving Him, and these souls fall into Hell.

But you, if you are making use of Confession, obeying the Church and trying to grow in your relationship with God, you are among those people that are in the least danger of falling into Hell. Those that deliberately turn away from God and from what is right are the ones that are in grave danger, not those that accidentally make mistakes.

This isn’t a horrible game of chance, where maybe we’ll go to Heaven, but the odds are we will be damned. That is not the way it works at all. There is no chance involved. Those that are deliberately rebelling against God are damned and those that are truly seeking God are saved.

The problem is that there are many who are deliberately rebelling against God, and that is why many are damned. But if you go to Confession, obey the Church and seek the Lord, you are not deliberately rebelling but are sincerely seeking God and to do what is right. Therefore you are a faithful daughter of the Church and will be saved. The same is true for John of Woking (except the “daughter” part).

We have little reason for fear but much reason to rejoice, for God is in our hearts and we are on a journey to Heaven. Let us therefore simply try to live for Him and grow in Him, and be glad, out of faith that God will indeed bring us all the way to the Paradise He prepared with you in mind from eternity.
Thanks Lief - wise counsel
 
Lief Erikson,

I appreciate your encouraging words. Your ideas are logical and I am sure that they are true. I will also go to confession more frequently and make more prayers of thanksgiving, like you say.

My worry mainly concerns “sins of omission.” For example, when Jesus says when “you saw me hungry, you gave me a drink”, etc. etc. I always feel that I can be doing more for the Lord. I always get caught up in maintaining my home and dealing with domestic concerns.
Are you a Mom? Maintaining your home and dealing with domestic concerns are part of the responsibilities God has put before you. Ignoring them would be an omission. Performing them in service to your family is doing a great service to God, however! If you are a parent, you are helping your children to move toward Heaven. You are serving as their guide and example, whether they follow that example or not.

Here’s a passage from Proverbs about God’s call in the life of a wife.
Proverbs 31:10-31:
Epilogue: The Wife of Noble Character

10 [c] A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.

11 Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.

12 She brings him good, not harm,
all the days of her life.

13 She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.

14 She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.

15 She gets up while it is still dark;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her servant girls.

16 She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.

17 She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.

18 She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.

19 In her hand she holds the distaff
and grasps the spindle with her fingers.

20 She opens her arms to the poor
and extends her hands to the needy.

21 When it snows, she has no fear for her household;
for all of them are clothed in scarlet.

22 She makes coverings for her bed;
she is clothed in fine linen and purple.

23 Her husband is respected at the city gate,
where he takes his seat among the elders of the land.

24 She makes linen garments and sells them,
and supplies the merchants with sashes.

25 She is clothed with strength and dignity;
she can laugh at the days to come.

26 She speaks with wisdom,
and faithful instruction is on her tongue.

27 She watches over the affairs of her household
and does not eat the bread of idleness.

28 Her children arise and call her blessed;
her husband also, and he praises her:

29 “Many women do noble things,
but you surpass them all.”

30 Charm is deceptive, and beauty is fleeting;
but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised.

31 Give her the reward she has earned,
and let her works bring her praise at the city gate.
Remember also that while work and service, done with a humble and loving heart, are pleasing to God, there also is a valid place for taking a break and for pleasure activities. Solomon wrote in Ecclesiasties, “there is a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to mourn and a time to dance” (3:4). Jesus was glad to visit a wedding celebration at Cana, and even perform a great miracle to improve the party (among other things) (Jn 2). Here’s another useful passage reflecting on this:
Ecclesiasties 5:18-20:
18 Then I realized that it is good and proper for a man to eat and drink, and to find satisfaction in his toilsome labor under the sun during the few days of life God has given him—for this is his lot. 19 Moreover, when God gives any man wealth and possessions, and enables him to enjoy them, to accept his lot and be happy in his work—this is a gift of God. 20 He seldom reflects on the days of his life, because God keeps him occupied with gladness of heart.
It can be perfectly valid to live in the world and enjoy life and possessions, so long as we don’t put love them above God. One shouldn’t feel guilty over this, for it is good to enjoy them. However, we also have to take care that our possessions not distract us from spending time with God, like Martha, who was distracted from spending time with Jesus because of responsibilities (Luke 10:38-42). We should thank God and seek deeper unity with Him during our day to day life, for He is there for us, ready to draw us nearer to Him in good times or bad. Growing in our relationships with God is the most important thing in life. That can be time set aside in prayer, reading the Scripture or other pious activities, but it also can be found in our love of one another and in our interactions with one another day through day. We can hear God and meet Him all throughout the day.
 
I also have a difficult time giving up “good tasting” food like ice cream and chocolate . . . and beer! I feel that the Lord is calling me to do more penance but I am resisting his call to this. I have made some progress lately and I know it is through his grace that I have been able to do this.
We work our way up into deeper union with God bit by bit, as Shin just said, “As long as you are making progress… slow or step by step…”

Think about us as toddlers learning to walk. Toddlers stumble around, they wobble, they crawl, they are nothing next to adults who can walk and run easily and with perfect balance. In the same way, we are nothing to the saints, those who have grown mature in the love and knowledge of God. What we need to do is recognize our lowliness, confess it to God humbly and offer Him whatever we can offer Him lovingly.

St. Therese of Lisieux said that very small gifts offered with love are worth much to the Heart of God. In fact, we know this truth from our own experience too. If I give my friend a helping hand or a smile, or a kind word, that gift, though very small, can mean so much to him. One kind word can make someone’s day, and more than anything else that day, that will be what the person remembers. It is the same between us and God.

What we really need to all work on is learning to love God and love our neighbor more. As we do this, we will become more willing to give for others, to do good, to put ourselves second and others first, because all of this is part of being in love. A man who loves his spouse often does things for her, even contrary to his own desires, because he loves her and out of no other motive. In the same way, as we draw nearer to God in love, we come to give for Him and to do things for Him that we would not normally have done. This love also extends to our neighbor, for God is present in our neighbor too, particularly in the poor and suffering. We learn to let love consume us fully and not just partially, though like everything, this too grows in us over time.

Love should be our central focus, growth in the love of God and our neighbor. Jesus said, “Do this and you will live.”

As you grow in love more and more, everything else will fall into place, bit by bit.

2 Cor. 9:7 says, “Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” Giving without a cheerful heart can build resentment in us, which is a barrier between us and God, so we need to seek to love God in all our responsibilities and not take on additional pious acts that we cannot offer Him with love. We give what we can give out of love and what we must give out of love, but we do not move beyond that love. Song of Songs 8:4, “Daughters of Jerusalem, I charge you: Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires.” We move according to the love in our hearts, and no further, and no shorter.

Of course, there are responsibilities we must perform whether cheerfully or not, but when this is the case, we are always called to seek love in what we do. At the same time, when we have a legitimate choice as to how much we will do for God and our neighbor, we do what we can do cheerfully and don’t overwhelm ourselves or choose out of a sense of obligation that builds resentment in us.

During all this, we do the little things we can do cheerfully and through them we grow bit by bit into deeper union with God. As Jesus says, “Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much” (Luke 16:10). When we serve God in little things, He prepares us through this for greater things. But we have to be patient with ourselves and with God, even as we seek Him.

Here’s another scripture about self-denial:

1 Cor. 13:3, “If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.”

We are called to mortify ourselves according to our love, or what we can cheerfully offer. If St. Vincent de Paul had sufficient love to go on only four hours of sleep a night for God’s sake, but he did not listen to love’s call, then he should indeed have done more! If, on the other hand, he could not offer that much sleep-time to God out of love, then he did well to sleep as much as he did. We are called to seek love and to be responsive to the movement of love in our lives.

If you feel a genuine desire to make a sacrifice of deserts and beer, that could very well be from God. That, in part, is what I mean by cheerful giving. It’s giving that comes from a sincere desire to give and not from a sense of obligation. Figure out what you can give cheerfully. If you really want to give it all, then try that, but if you want to make a lesser sacrifice, that’s good too. Just don’t push yourself beyond what you desire to give and can give up willingly and lovingly.

Growing in the love of God and one’s neighbor is everything. Growth in love leads to putting ourselves aside and God’s will first, and draws us constantly closer to Heaven.
 
We are so weak, yet we desire to be saints and we truly do seek to please God, even in our weakness. We are projects in His hands. We must accept through faith that He is in control of the journey in our lives, and that His will for us is better than our will for ourselves. As we seek Him, we need to just trust Him to take us all the way to where He wants us to be, and in the meantime, we grow in Him as much as we can and give whatever we can cheerfully give, without being bothered by how far we have yet to go, and by how weak we are. That refusal to be bothered by our weaknesses is both humble and trusting. For being bothered by our weaknesses can easily be the result of pride, of expecting much of ourselves because we are very high in our own eyes. So not being bothered by our weaknesses, but being patient with ourselves, is humble. Not being bothered for a long time by our faults, sins and weaknesses, but rather trusting in God’s mercy each time we fall, is also an act of faith, for it says we believe in God’s power and love, that He will bring us to Himself and help us in spite of our depravity. He will help us. We are trusting in Him. When we sin, if we repent and commit ourselves to change, we should then move on rather than dwelling on what is past, for this discards ourselves and puts faith in God.

This refusal to raise the self so high can also be a real relief. An overly glorified self-image causes us pummel ourselves for some of our mistakes while causing us to not see others at all, which can be damaging. Prideful self-image puts a heavy burden on our shoulders. Not caring as much about ourselves, however, opens our eyes to see those faults we otherwise would have blinded ourselves to, and simultaneously it causes us not to pummel ourselves for them, because we don’t care enough about ourselves to truly be concerned. I mean, if we are lowly in our own eyes, it doesn’t surprise us to find ourselves full of sin and fault, and if our eyes are set on God, we’ll be delighted by the mercy we see in Him, mercy He is glad to give us to improve and transform our lives.
I am also flabbergasted that anyone would deliberately turn away from God if they knew the reality of hell. I would think that most people do not realize that their sins are as serious as they are. So, in this way, do people “accidently” go to hell? It is so easy to get caught up with what the world expects - e.g., fornication is acceptable and promoted in many cases. A lot of people do not understand the gravity of the situation. Do they then go to hell anyway? I am having trouble understanding a situation where someone has “full knowledge” of their sin. Someone can know something is wrong but do they fully understand the gravity of the sin - that that particular sin would send them to hell?
St. Faustina said that most of the people she saw in Hell had not believed in Hell. So yes, people that go to Hell usually don’t think they are going there. However, everyone that is going to Hell has heard the voice of their conscience telling them that they are choosing wrong, and yet they have deliberately chosen it anyway. Choosing to go against what is right is choosing to go against God, for all right is in God.

“Full knowledge” basically means that you know what you are doing is wrong but you do it anyway. You can suppress or reject your knowledge that what you are doing is wrong, or argue yourself out of obeying your conscience and justify your behavior. You can get rid of that protective knowledge because you don’t want it – you want what is evil more. You suppress the voice of your conscience.

It is possible for some people to commit grave sins without their conscience alerting them in a substantial way to their sin. In this case, the sin is not mortal. For instance, a Catholic might not know that he is rebelling against the Church and committing grave sin if he skips Mass on Sunday. So he might sleep in without knowing how important this is, and his conscience says nothing to him. In this case, he is not committing a sin with full knowledge. In fact, if he doesn’t know the Church gave a command at all, he might not even be sinning.

Heaven is complete union with God. Hell is complete division from God. God is Love. Hell is therefore complete separation from love, complete unlovingness, and Heaven is complete lovingness, complete union with God. Every choice we make that violates our consciences is unloving, and is division from God. Each choice we make that violates our consciences on some grave matter is extremely unloving and leads to the complete rejection of Love that is Hell.
 
We are so weak, yet we desire to be saints and we truly do seek to please God, even in our weakness. We are projects in His hands. We must accept through faith that He is in control of the journey in our lives, and that His will for us is better than our will for ourselves. As we seek Him, we need to just trust Him to take us all the way to where He wants us to be, and in the meantime, we grow in Him as much as we can and give whatever we can cheerfully give, without being bothered by how far we have yet to go, and by how weak we are. That refusal to be bothered by our weaknesses is both humble and trusting. For being bothered by our weaknesses can easily be the result of pride, of expecting much of ourselves because we are very high in our own eyes. So not being bothered by our weaknesses, but being patient with ourselves, is humble. Not being bothered for a long time by our faults, sins and weaknesses, but rather trusting in God’s mercy each time we fall, is also an act of faith, for it says we believe in God’s power and love, that He will bring us to Himself and help us in spite of our depravity. He will help us. We are trusting in Him. When we sin, if we repent and commit ourselves to change, we should then move on rather than dwelling on what is past, for this discards ourselves and puts faith in God.

This refusal to raise the self so high can also be a real relief. An overly glorified self-image causes us pummel ourselves for some of our mistakes while causing us to not see others at all, which can be damaging. Prideful self-image puts a heavy burden on our shoulders. Not caring as much about ourselves, however, opens our eyes to see those faults we otherwise would have blinded ourselves to, and simultaneously it causes us not to pummel ourselves for them, because we don’t care enough about ourselves to truly be concerned. I mean, if we are lowly in our own eyes, it doesn’t surprise us to find ourselves full of sin and fault, and if our eyes are set on God, we’ll be delighted by the mercy we see in Him, mercy He is glad to give us to improve and transform our lives.

St. Faustina said that most of the people she saw in Hell had not believed in Hell. So yes, people that go to Hell usually don’t think they are going there. However, everyone that is going to Hell has heard the voice of their conscience telling them that they are choosing wrong, and yet they have deliberately chosen it anyway. Choosing to go against what is right is choosing to go against God, for all right is in God.

“Full knowledge” basically means that you know what you are doing is wrong but you do it anyway. You can suppress or reject your knowledge that what you are doing is wrong, or argue yourself out of obeying your conscience and justify your behavior. You can get rid of that protective knowledge because you don’t want it – you want what is evil more. You suppress the voice of your conscience.

It is possible for some people to commit grave sins without their conscience alerting them in a substantial way to their sin. In this case, the sin is not mortal. For instance, a Catholic might not know that he is rebelling against the Church and committing grave sin if he skips Mass on Sunday. So he might sleep in without knowing how important this is, and his conscience says nothing to him. In this case, he is not committing a sin with full knowledge. In fact, if he doesn’t know the Church gave a command at all, he might not even be sinning.

Heaven is complete union with God. Hell is complete division from God. God is Love. Hell is therefore complete separation from love, complete unlovingness, and Heaven is complete lovingness, complete union with God. Every choice we make that violates our consciences is unloving, and is division from God. Each choice we make that violates our consciences on some grave matter is extremely unloving and leads to the complete rejection of Love that is Hell.
Lief,

Thanks so much for your thorough responses to my questions. I can tell that you have done an extensive study of our faith. Your description of self glorification is right on. We are nothing and can do no good without the help of God. I will keep your words in mind as I consider my acts of love for God. It is pride that is causing my disappointment in my lack of spiritual progress.

I will include you in my prayer of the rosary that I will pray tonight. I can tell that you spent a lot of time and effort on responding to my questions. Thanks again for your help.

houston1 - Wife and mother of one son
 
Lief,

Thanks so much for your thorough responses to my questions. I can tell that you have done an extensive study of our faith.
If you have any other questions, Catholic Answers is the place to ask :). There are lots of knowledgeable people here.
Your description of self glorification is right on.
What I said about this all comes from St. Francis de Sale’s book, “Introduction to the Devout Life.”

Plus, it’s easy for me to describe what I’ve experienced a lot of ;).
We are nothing and can do no good without the help of God. I will keep your words in mind as I consider my acts of love for God. It is pride that is causing my disappointment in my lack of spiritual progress.
You are seeking God devoutly and with a deep desire. Remember what the Scripture says, “Everyone who seeks, finds, and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.” Keep seeking Jesus as you are now and you can go nowhere but up.
I will include you in my prayer of the rosary that I will pray tonight. I can tell that you spent a lot of time and effort on responding to my questions. Thanks again for your help.

houston1 - Wife and mother of one son
Glad to help :). I feel called to the priesthood and religious life, and I’m trying to figure out some form of service I can perform during the day up to the time I enter a formation program, so if you want to pray for me, I could use some prayers for those aspects of my life, as well as for the development of my relationship with God. Like you, I’m trying to conform my life more fully to God’s will, to overcome selfishness and become selfless and constantly recollected. Now I’ll stop blathering about my needs :D.

I’m actually accumulating lots of extremely helpful prayers over the course of my vocation search. Whenever I contact an order, whether I decide to investigate them more fully or not, they always tell me they’ll pray for me. My spiritual life has been massively blessed as a result of all those holy people’s prayers! I didn’t used to like Eucharistic Adoration, but after a couple orders devoted to the Eucharist started praying for me, my entire experience was transformed and now I can’t get enough of it!

You might want to try that sometime, just to see the results . . . Just doing some research and getting in touch with lots of different orders, just asking them for a prayer for some intention, and then watch what happens to your life! Those men and women are so very holy, and they have sacrificed their lives for the sake of God and humanity. It’s wonderful how God is using them!
 
If you have any other questions, Catholic Answers is the place to ask :). There are lots of knowledgeable people here.

What I said about this all comes from St. Francis de Sale’s book, “Introduction to the Devout Life.”

Plus, it’s easy for me to describe what I’ve experienced a lot of ;).

You are seeking God devoutly and with a deep desire. Remember what the Scripture says, “Everyone who seeks, finds, and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.” Keep seeking Jesus as you are now and you can go nowhere but up.

Glad to help :). I feel called to the priesthood and religious life, and I’m trying to figure out some form of service I can perform during the day up to the time I enter a formation program, so if you want to pray for me, I could use some prayers for those aspects of my life, as well as for the development of my relationship with God. Like you, I’m trying to conform my life more fully to God’s will, to overcome selfishness and become selfless and constantly recollected. Now I’ll stop blathering about my needs :D.

I’m actually accumulating lots of extremely helpful prayers over the course of my vocation search. Whenever I contact an order, whether I decide to investigate them more fully or not, they always tell me they’ll pray for me. My spiritual life has been massively blessed as a result of all those holy people’s prayers! I didn’t used to like Eucharistic Adoration, but after a couple orders devoted to the Eucharist started praying for me, my entire experience was transformed and now I can’t get enough of it!

You might want to try that sometime, just to see the results . . . Just doing some research and getting in touch with lots of different orders, just asking them for a prayer for some intention, and then watch what happens to your life! Those men and women are so very holy, and they have sacrificed their lives for the sake of God and humanity. It’s wonderful how God is using them!
Thanks again for all your thoughts. Last night, I dedicated you in my prayer of the rosary and I will continue to remember you as I say my prayers. I’m happy to hear that you are considering the priesthood. God bless you.
 
We are so weak, yet we desire to be saints and we truly do seek to please God, even in our weakness. We are projects in His hands. We must accept through faith that He is in control of the journey in our lives, and that His will for us is better than our will for ourselves. As we seek Him, we need to just trust Him to take us all the way to where He wants us to be, and in the meantime, we grow in Him as much as we can and give whatever we can cheerfully give, without being bothered by how far we have yet to go, and by how weak we are. That refusal to be bothered by our weaknesses is both humble and trusting. For being bothered by our weaknesses can easily be the result of pride, of expecting much of ourselves because we are very high in our own eyes. So not being bothered by our weaknesses, but being patient with ourselves, is humble. Not being bothered for a long time by our faults, sins and weaknesses, but rather trusting in God’s mercy each time we fall, is also an act of faith, for it says we believe in God’s power and love, that He will bring us to Himself and help us in spite of our depravity. He will help us. We are trusting in Him. When we sin, if we repent and commit ourselves to change, we should then move on rather than dwelling on what is past, for this discards ourselves and puts faith in God.

This refusal to raise the self so high can also be a real relief. An overly glorified self-image causes us pummel ourselves for some of our mistakes while causing us to not see others at all, which can be damaging. Prideful self-image puts a heavy burden on our shoulders. Not caring as much about ourselves, however, opens our eyes to see those faults we otherwise would have blinded ourselves to, and simultaneously it causes us not to pummel ourselves for them, because we don’t care enough about ourselves to truly be concerned. I mean, if we are lowly in our own eyes, it doesn’t surprise us to find ourselves full of sin and fault, and if our eyes are set on God, we’ll be delighted by the mercy we see in Him, mercy He is glad to give us to improve and transform our lives.

St. Faustina said that most of the people she saw in Hell had not believed in Hell. So yes, people that go to Hell usually don’t think they are going there. However, everyone that is going to Hell has heard the voice of their conscience telling them that they are choosing wrong, and yet they have deliberately chosen it anyway. Choosing to go against what is right is choosing to go against God, for all right is in God.

“Full knowledge” basically means that you know what you are doing is wrong but you do it anyway. You can suppress or reject your knowledge that what you are doing is wrong, or argue yourself out of obeying your conscience and justify your behavior. You can get rid of that protective knowledge because you don’t want it – you want what is evil more. You suppress the voice of your conscience.

It is possible for some people to commit grave sins without their conscience alerting them in a substantial way to their sin. In this case, the sin is not mortal. For instance, a Catholic might not know that he is rebelling against the Church and committing grave sin if he skips Mass on Sunday. So he might sleep in without knowing how important this is, and his conscience says nothing to him. In this case, he is not committing a sin with full knowledge. In fact, if he doesn’t know the Church gave a command at all, he might not even be sinning.

Heaven is complete union with God. Hell is complete division from God. God is Love. Hell is therefore complete separation from love, complete unlovingness, and Heaven is complete lovingness, complete union with God. Every choice we make that violates our consciences is unloving, and is division from God. Each choice we make that violates our consciences on some grave matter is extremely unloving and leads to the complete rejection of Love that is Hell.
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