Moscow to Rome: Yes to cooperation, no to communion

  • Thread starter Thread starter bkovacs
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It’s a shame that the Patriarch’s words will never have an influence on the Church of England and their head Queen Elizabeth II. Be as it may,

Quote: “Well, there obviously is much the Orthodox world has to work out itself with respect to the Kremlin’s new Russian nationalism, the Church, and the Third Rome. Don’t take it from me, an Eastern Catholic, but take it from the Ecumenical Patriarch of the Orthodox world, as reported here”

I would rather see Russia fully Christian again vs atheistic. And with a proper Christian faith, not the happy clappy type. Didn’t Christianity in the first millenium follow an Emperor. Constantine, Justin, etcc
 
Nine_Two said:
again I ask, what does that have to do with the idea of providing a common front on the things we agree on?
Click to expand...
Nothing other than the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church keeps on insisting that the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church’s very existence and development is the major impediment to having better relations with the Vatican. Moscow would like us gone, as if we, a 6 million or so Eastern Catholic church are an existential threat? I’ve seen too many articles where the Moscow Patriarchate (MP) keeps on insisting to the Vatican that it must deal with the Ukrainian Catholic Church “problem” before the MP will deign to meet with the Pope. We are not a stumbling block as Moscow insists.

If the threat is civilizational to Christianity then the MP could very easily have a dignified meeting with the Pope in the Vatican or Moscow tomorrow, regardless of what the MP thinks of the Ukrainian Catholics. The Pope is willing. Let the MP quit insisting that the Ukrainian Catholic Church’s existence is a stumbling block. Last I looked we are a Christian church. Let Moscow leave us alone, and meet with the Pope, no conditions pertaining to us. Quite simple.
 
It’s ironic isn’t it. How Russia is talking Russian nationalism, the “Church”, and the “Third Rome”.

And in the “West” priests are persecuted, atheism runs rampant. Let’s think about all this. How many “Church” goers are their in Scandanavia, Czechoslovakia, etcc. In Russia nationalism, the Church, and the Third Rome may be the talk. But here in the great West, we give more airtime to Lady Gaga, Oprah, Dr Phil, etcc., than we do any Catholic or Orthodox religous leader. Maybe the message of the Met Hilarion is that first we need to take care of the bigger issue, with Catholics and Orthodox uniting. Than later will think about the other things that separate us. For me being a Byzantine Christian isn’t about ethniticity, since I’m neither Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, etcc. It’s all about preserving and practicing the true faith. This is how we should all deal with this issue. Take a look!. It has a deep message.
[youtube.com/watch?v=zhWlhUPjfu8&feature=player_embedded](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhWlhUPjfu8&feature=player_embedded)
 
KyivAndrew said:
Nothing other than the fact that the Russian Orthodox Church keeps on insisting that the Ukrainian Greek-Catholic Church’s very existence and development is the major impediment to having better relations with the Vatican. Moscow would like us gone, as if we, a 6 million or so Eastern Catholic church are an existential threat? I’ve seen too many articles where the Moscow Patriarchate (MP) keeps on insisting to the Vatican that it must deal with the Ukrainian Catholic Church “problem” before the MP will deign to meet with the Pope. We are not a stumbling block as Moscow insists.

If the threat is civilizational to Christianity then the MP could very easily have a dignified meeting with the Pope in the Vatican or Moscow tomorrow, regardless of what the MP thinks of the Ukrainian Catholics. The Pope is willing. Let the MP quit insisting that the Ukrainian Catholic Church’s existence is a stumbling block. Last I looked we are a Christian church. Let Moscow leave us alone, and meet with the Pope, no conditions pertaining to us. Quite simple.
Click to expand...
That still doesn’t have much to do with everyone working together when we agree on things.
 
Nine_Two said:
That still doesn’t have much to do with everyone working together when we agree on things.
Click to expand...
OK. So tell me then why can’t the Pope meet with the MP tomorrow? The Pope is willing. What’s the problem?
 
Nine_Two said:
What does that have to do with the subject?
Click to expand...
Well, I assume if the MP wishes to cooperate, as in “Yes to cooperation” as the title of the article and this thread, why can’t they both meet and discuss cooperation? How can one cooperate with someone if the other party doesn’t even wish to meet the other party ? As I said, the Pope is willing.
 
One question?. What is the relationship between the Ukrainian Greek Catholics with the Kyivan Patriarchate.
 
KyivAndrew said:
OK. So tell me then why can’t the Pope meet with the MP tomorrow? The Pope is willing. What’s the problem?
Click to expand...
I’m sure they speak to each other on the phone once an a while. They have met each other in the past. Probably had an Oktoberfest together, when Alexis II was MP.
 
bkovacs said:
One question?. What is the relationship between the Ukrainian Greek Catholics with the Kyivan Patriarchate.
Click to expand...
Very good. When the Kyivan Patriarch Filaret of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (KP) last visited the USA, he visited UGCC churches as well and met with all the Ukrainian Catholic parish priests in the area he visited. Very nice. 🙂
 
dvdjs said:
Got it. It’s about “branding”. The un-Catholic church. Maybe that;s why the Russian’s changed the Creed and took “Catholic” out.
Click to expand...
This is not only wrong, this is so obviously wrong that I feel kind of bad for you. I realize that maybe you can’t read Russian or type in Russian, but five-second search (literally, five seconds) on the Russian search engine “Yandex” brought up the full text, and “Catholic” is CLEARLY there:

Веруем во единаго Бога Отца, Вседержителя, Творца всех видимых и не видимых. И во единаго Господа Иисуса Христа, Сына Божия, единороднаго, рожденнаго от Отца, то есть, из сущности Отца, Бога от Бога, Света от Света, Бога истинна от Бога истинна, рожденна, не сотворенна, единосущна Отцу, имже вся быша, яже на небеси и на земли: нас ради человек и нашаго ради спасения сшедшаго, и воплатившася и вочеловечшася, страдавша, и воскресшаго в третий день, и возшедшаго на небеса, и седяща одесную Отца, и паки грядущаго судити живым и мертвым. И во Святаго Духа. Глаголющих же о Сыне Божием, яко бысть время, егда не бе, или яко прежде неже родитися, не бе, или яко от не сущих бысть, или из иныя ипостаси или сущности глаголющих быти, или превратима или изменяема Сына Божия, сих анафематствует кафолическая и апостольская Церковь.

The large, bold, underlined word is “Catholic”.

To Malphono: The modern equivalent (descendant, really) of the KGB is called the FSB.
 
KyivAndrew said:
Well, I assume if the MP wishes to cooperate, as in “Yes to cooperation” as the title of the article and this thread, why can’t they both meet and discuss cooperation? How can one cooperate with someone if the other party doesn’t even wish to meet the other party ? As I said, the Pope is willing.
Click to expand...
While that would be nice, and I was looking for some information on this and found something saying they do indeed hope to meet in the future, I don’t think grass-roots cooperation requires high ranking officials to talk with each other directly first.
 
A “yes” to anything is a good beginning. Please Lord, allow this to happen.

Pray for unity!
 
In all seriousness, after all the uproar adding the filioque to the Creed caused does anyone really think the Russian Church could remove something as central from the Creed and no one in the Orthodox would would notice? 🤷
 
Our Lady of the Rosary gave as the “only” means to a period of peace the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart by Peter, in union with all bishops, at one, solemn, public time in their respective cathedrals for the conversion of that nation. That’s the Petrine and Apostolic and lay unity that will humble itself so the Immaculate Heart can convert Russia and unite Russia, ending this divorce and embracing five million Muslim converts. God wills this devotion in honoring the purity of intent of the Immaculate Heart, the Virgin Mary’s faith response that brought our Savior.
 
josephdaniel29 said:
In all seriousness, after all the uproar adding the filioque to the Creed caused does anyone really think the Russian Church could remove something as central from the Creed and no one in the Orthodox would would notice? 🤷
Click to expand...
I thought he was trying to make a funny.

I don’t know how anyone could make a comment like that seriously.
 
nordskoven said:
Our Lady of the Rosary gave as the “only” means to a period of peace the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart by Peter, in union with all bishops, at one, solemn, public time in their respective cathedrals for the conversion of that nation. That’s the Petrine and Apostolic and lay unity that will humble itself so the Immaculate Heart can convert Russia and unite Russia, ending this divorce and embracing five million Muslim converts. God wills this devotion in honoring the purity of intent of the Immaculate Heart, the Virgin Mary’s faith response that brought our Savior.
Click to expand...
Let’s get real for a change, the problems between the churches are serious and the consecration has already been done, your Pope said so.
 
nordskoven said:
Our Lady of the Rosary gave as the “only” means to a period of peace the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart by Peter, in union with all bishops, at one, solemn, public time in their respective cathedrals for the conversion of that nation. That’s the Petrine and Apostolic and lay unity that will humble itself so the Immaculate Heart can convert Russia and unite Russia, ending this divorce and embracing five million Muslim converts. God wills this devotion in honoring the purity of intent of the Immaculate Heart, the Virgin Mary’s faith response that brought our Savior.
Click to expand...
Catholics are not bound to place any credence in private revelations.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top