Moslem Wives

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Montalban

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I’ve been told by Moslems that, sure they’re allowed to have up to four wives, but only if they can treat all of them fairly.

This goes against the Koran which says it’s impossible…
4:129
Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so).

I give alternate sites versions so you can see for yourselves…
[4.129] And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=DIV0&byte=114839

004.129
YUSUFALI: Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire: But turn not away (from a woman) altogether, so as to leave her (as it were) hanging (in the air). If ye come to a friendly understanding, and practise self-restraint, Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish (to do so). But turn not altogether away (from one), leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html
 
If I were the wife of a Moslem, and that’s a BIG hypothetical because I’d never marry a Moslem, you can be sure there would NEVER be wife #2!!!

But back on topic, sorta ~ this raises the question, now that I’ve been listening to news reports about the Fundamentalist LDS church all day ~ are the Fundamentalist LDS (not to be confused with regular LDS) church members the Western successors of Islam? Because they both have provisions for multiple wives… At least 4 wives per man I think, but maybe more. Anyway, the numbers don’t matter as much as the question.
 
Mel,
I think i know what your talking about, i saw a doco on a town somewhere in America, cant remember now, about ‘older men’ having about 4 - 5 younger brides, im not talking 9 year olds, but these girls are in there teens around 14 +, which in my book is still too young!
Once some of the boys from the community start to grow up, they are expelled because they do not want too much competition around.
As funny as it sounds, this is a true story.
So these boys are left to fend for themselves in an outside world they know nothing about, the 2 they talked to had found Catholicism and it saved them, but who knows what happens to others??
Im not sure what religion these people are, but its a cult of some sort…
 
It is something i’ve been thinking about as well. Allah is clearly saying : you cannot be fair. So how can one have many wives when he is not fair? why did Muhammad have a zillion wife when he cannot be fair? unless the verse has another meaning of course.
 
inJESUS said:
It is something i’ve been thinking about as well. Allah is clearly saying : you cannot be fair. So how can one have many wives when he is not fair? why did Muhammad have a zillion wife when he cannot be fair? unless the verse has another meaning of course.
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It’s not quite that. It’s Al-lah sayng “You can only have four wives if you can be fair to them all” AND AT THE SAME TIME SAYING “You will never be able to be fair to all your wives”

The only logical conclusion I can make from this is that you can only have one wife.
 
Montalban said:
It’s not quite that. It’s Al-lah sayng “You can only have four wives if you can be fair to them all” AND AT THE SAME TIME SAYING “You will never be able to be fair to all your wives”

The only logical conclusion I can make from this is that you can only have one wife.
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exactly though i don’t understand how you can permit and not permit at the same time.
 
Kadaveri said:
4:129 doesn’t have anything to do with polygamy.
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I would agree. It seems it is saying that men cannot force their wives to get along but if you try to reconcile them then kudos for you. The verse in context is below. But the koran is such jibberish who knows what it is saying half the time.

To any Moslems out there: Are the there any plans to translate the 20% of the koran that was originally in Aramaic into Arabic or english so the koran is actually intelligible?

4.127] And they ask you a decision about women. Say: Allah makes known to you His decision concerning them, and that which is recited to you in the Book concerning female orphans whom you do not give what is appointed for them while you desire to marry them, and concerning the weak among children, and that you should deal towards orphans with equity; and whatever good you do, Allah surely knows it.
[4.128] And if a woman fears ill usage or desertion on the part of her husband, there is no blame on them, if they effect a reconciliation between them, and reconciliation is better, and avarice has been made to be present in the (people’s) minds; and if you do good (to others) and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is aware of what you do.
[4.129] And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives, even though you may wish (it), but be not disinclined (from one) with total disinclination, so that you leave her as it were in suspense; and if you effect a reconciliation and guard (against evil), then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
[4.130] And if they separate, Allah will render them both free from want out of His ampleness, and Allah is Ample-giving, Wise.
 
dolphinlove said:
Mel,
I think i know what your talking about, i saw a doco on a town somewhere in America, cant remember now, about ‘older men’ having about 4 - 5 younger brides, im not talking 9 year olds, but these girls are in there teens around 14 +, which in my book is still too young!
Once some of the boys from the community start to grow up, they are expelled because they do not want too much competition around.
As funny as it sounds, this is a true story.
So these boys are left to fend for themselves in an outside world they know nothing about, the 2 they talked to had found Catholicism and it saved them, but who knows what happens to others??
Im not sure what religion these people are, but its a cult of some sort…
Click to expand...
That sounds a lot like what is being said about the FLDS.

Their prophet was just convicted of accessory to rape base don the testimony of a woman who was 14 when she was forced to marry her first cousin.

I’m not sure what that has to do with Moslem wives but polygamy is still entrenched in some communities.

It does make me wonder about the demographics of Moslems societies. I’m not sure how prevalent polygamy is in modern times. I don’t think there is a lot of it because what would happen to the “excess” men?

Mohamed himself was married exclusively to his first wife for many years until her death. Many of his subsequent wives were widows of important allies lost in his wars. Perhaps the custom arose as an act of charity to widows and orphans?
 
thedavidwilson said:
I would agree. It seems it is saying that men cannot force their wives to get along but if you try to reconcile them then kudos for you. The verse in context is below. But the koran is such jibberish who knows what it is saying half the time.
Click to expand...
No it’s not about that either, it’s got nothing to do with any situtation involving more than one wife. It’s talking about a dispute being a man and his wife (not between his wives).
 
Kadaveri said:
No it’s not about that either, it’s got nothing to do with any situtation involving more than one wife. It’s talking about a dispute being a man and his wife (not between his wives).
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[4.129] And you have it not in your power to do justice between wives,

The S on the end of wives would contradict your statement.
 
No, because the verse is addressing men in general, not one individual man and his wife.
 
It’s so degrading to have two wives and tream the differently, I feel so bad for all the women that have been affected like this, they aren’t men’s ‘possessions’ to use as they wish.
 
One wife per husband is a relatively new social concept.

St. Paul shows the newness of it when he makes the distinction for Deacons in the Church to have only one wife. If it was already an established norm why mention it? Prior to that in all of Scripture the patriarchs has multiple wives. Some into the hundreds. One king of Israel closing in on a thousand (900 wives not counting concubines doesn’t sound too particularly wise to me).

And that’s another thing! When I hear the members of the “Bring Back Traditional Biblical Marriage Values” brigade spouting off I want to ask them about the concubines and where do they fit into their movement to bring it all back.

Men, be a biblical man! When your spouse asks you what you want for your next birthday you standup and say loud and proud, “Honey, I want me a concubine!”
 
b_justb said:
One wife per husband is a relatively new social concept.

St. Paul shows the newness of it when he makes the distinction for Deacons in the Church to have only one wife. If it was already an established norm why mention it? Prior to that in all of Scripture the patriarchs has multiple wives. Some into the hundreds. One king of Israel closing in on a thousand (900 wives not counting concubines doesn’t sound too particularly wise to me).

And that’s another thing! When I hear the members of the “Bring Back Traditional Biblical Marriage Values” brigade spouting off I want to ask them about the concubines and where do they fit into their movement to bring it all back.

Men, be a biblical man! When your spouse asks you what you want for your next birthday you standup and say loud and proud, “Honey, I want me a concubine!”
Click to expand...
This is not from the NT. It is from the Torah. So you should address this to Jews. But I think the issue here is the occurance of this practice in modern times. It did not come from Christianity. It is being perpetuated primarily by follower of false prophets (Some mormans and muslims).
 
b,

You likely know this already, but the OT for Christians (and Jews) is not like the Quran for muslims. Both Jews and Christians agree that the OT is the story of how God revealed Himself to a flawed humanity. Nobody pretends that ANY of the heros of the OT were perfect models of how humans should be.

Read that OT closer. IMO, the polygamy tales all tend to reinforce christian teaching about why polygamy is incompatible with human dignity. Polygamy is a function of the fact that God had only just begun to reveal himself to these early patriarchs.
 
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