Most Americans Disagree With Church Teaching On Homosexuality, Abortion

[JamestheOlder]

huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/10/christianity-abortion-homosexuality_n_874528.html

This is yet another Pew Survey, based on 3,000 respondents (less than 1/10 of 1% of the US population) during a short period of time this year.

This is the same organization that stated that Catholics made up 1/3 of all births at some unknown time in US history and that 21% of atheists believe in G-d…

This survey flies in the face of other statistics which indicate an over-all population approval of homosexuality of about 33%, and of abortion-on-demand at about 38%.

Only the Puffington Host would stoop to accept these statistics (referenced above) without question. Evidently the purchase of PH by YAHOO has not dimmed their prodigious output of meaningless garbage on religion (ask me how I really feel!); just look at the number of “religious” articles from this paper referenced by RealClearReligion.

 

[CTCatholic5]

huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/10/christianity-abortion-homosexuality_n_874528.html

This is yet another Pew Survey, based on 3,000 respondents (less than 1/10 of 1% of the US population) during a short period of time this year.

This is the same organization that stated that Catholics made up 1/3 of all births at some unknown time in US history and that 21% of atheists believe in G-d…

This survey flies in the face of other statistics which indicate an over-all population approval of homosexuality of about 33%, and of abortion-on-demand at about 38%. .

Do they know the Church teaching on homosexuality and/or abortion? Or the methodology used to arrive at those positions?

I seriously doubt they found well-[in]formed Catholics, or explained the teaching to them before asking.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Truth is truth, even if it’s called a lie. And lies are lies, even when they’re called the truth.

 

[Rascalking]

Truth is truth, even if it’s called a lie. And lies are lies, even when they’re called the truth.

Yes, that will be the way to win more converts. Preach to them.

It’s clear that whatever we’re doing to convert/convince isn’t working. Let’s re-group, try again, and go out and see if we do some more persuading. After all, the truth is on our side-let’s find better ways to spread it.

 

[JamestheOlder]

Do they know the Church teaching on homosexuality and/or abortion? Or the methodology used to arrive at those positions?

I seriously doubt they found well-[in]formed Catholics, or explained the teaching to them before asking.

Not sure about the first item; PEW isn’t ignorant of Church teaching, I would guess, but the way they state positions on the subjects could be some interesting reading…if they ever published them.

Second item: Only about 3,000 people responded to this survey; a previous survey had about 3,500 respondents of which (based on their stats) 1/3 were born Catholic, but only 24% still called themselves “Catholic”. I leave that description to your imagination. That would mean that “present Catholics (INO)” would total maybe 740 respondents to the present survey. As we know from other published statistics, only about 20-25% of nominal Catholics actually attend Mass once a week, a serious sin situation. That would translate to (maybe) 185 or so practicing…maybe not all “literate”…Catholics, out of a total of 3,000 people, responded to the current survey.

185 people don’t even make up a regular-sized parish, yet PEW bases “Catholic” positions on these very few people. What a responsibility they have! Maybe we should pray fervently for the continued faith of the 185.

 

[JamestheOlder]

Yes, that will be the way to win more converts. Preach to them.

It’s clear that whatever we’re doing to convert/convince isn’t working. Let’s re-group, try again, and go out and see if we do some more persuading. After all, the truth is on our side-let’s find better ways to spread it.

Some concrete suggestions please, rather than platitudes?

 

[nathan_oc]

I think polls are just a tool the news uses to shape public option. It’s all in how they word the questions in the poll to get the test results they want. Then they take the results to help support their option.

 

[estesbob]

Corinthians 1:21-23

21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles,

 

[Rascalking]

Some concrete suggestions please, rather than platitudes?

Thought you’d never ask.

I was just saying that, since we’re clearly losing (if you believe this poll) it might be time for a change of tactics. Maybe we need to bring it up in calm conversation (like a Ronald Reagan) instead of yelling and screaming (Like a…um, I don’t know, person who yells and screams alot? )

I think we need to remember our sense of humor-make arguments for our side interesting and funny. Understand where the other guy comes from-that doesn’t mean agreeing. Rememebr that the other side are people as well-they have good intentions, even though they might be wrong.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Yes, that will be the way to win more converts. Preach to them.

It’s clear that whatever we’re doing to convert/convince isn’t working. Let’s re-group, try again, and go out and see if we do some more persuading. After all, the truth is on our side-let’s find better ways to spread it.

If I were trying to ‘win’ converts, I’d still have to tell the truth, wouldn’t I? It would be awfully silly to try to win converts using lies to do so. I would hate to feel that the Catholic Church needed to rely on marketing. (Can’t you just picture St. Peter and St. James looking at the surveycus pewicus from AD 53 and lamenting that that FIREBRAND St. Paul needed to tone down his remarks and be more 'empowering of ‘women’ lest the Church die out. . .)

Hon, this is a PEW SURVEY. It reflects the opinions of those few who took the survey, any and all of whom might have misunderstood any and all of the questions they answered. (Same as with any other survey).

IOW. . .why assume on the basis of one survey that what we’re ‘doing’ isn’t ‘working’ and needs to be all reinvented? (You aren’t in the education field, are you? )

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Thought you’d never ask.

I was just saying that, since we’re clearly losing (if you believe this poll) it might be time for a change of tactics. Maybe we need to bring it up in calm conversation (like a Ronald Reagan) instead of yelling and screaming (Like a…um, I don’t know, person who yells and screams alot? ) (raises hand politely. Um, Where exactly are you getting the idea that we are ‘losing’ because we are ‘yelling and screaming a lot?’ Where exactly? I don’t recall there being anything anywhere claiming Catholics were losing members because their front men, I mean lay people, were too busy yelling and screaming and scaring people off. . .)

I think we need to remember our sense of humor-make arguments for our side interesting and funny. Understand where the other guy comes from-that doesn’t mean agreeing. Rememebr that the other side are people as well-they have good intentions, even though they might be wrong.

Hold on to your hat. . .I agree with you here!

 

[Rascalking]

IOW. . .why assume on the basis of one survey that what we’re ‘doing’ isn’t ‘working’ and needs to be all reinvented? (You aren’t in the education field, are you? )

No dear, I work for a research company that asks people questions about things like…religion.

 

[Rascalking]

Hold on to your hat. . .I agree with you here!

The TRUE sign that we are in end times.

People-If Tantum and I agree on something, hold on to your hats and get ready for rapture!

(And Tantum-even if your raised your hand, I wouldn’t call on you!)

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The TRUE sign that we are in end times.

People-If Tantum and I agree on something, hold on to your hats and get ready for rapture!

LOL, tis true. However, this is not the first time it’s happened. In fact, it seems to be happening more and more often.

It might be because even though we might be coming at something from different directions, so to speak, the thing we’re coming at is true. (That is, Jesus). And the closer we get to Jesus, the more the different direction we’re coming from kind of loses its importance. I mean, it’s there and all, but it’s just that Jesus is so much. . .more.

 

[Rascalking]

LOL, tis true. However, this is not the first time it’s happened. In fact, it seems to be happening more and more often.

It might be because even though we might be coming at something from different directions, so to speak, the thing we’re coming at is true. (That is, Jesus). And the closer we get to Jesus, the more the different direction we’re coming from kind of loses its importance. I mean, it’s there and all, but it’s just that Jesus is so much. . .more.

Well said.

Now we can go pick out his and her towels.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well said.

Now we can go pick out his and her towels.

You forget I’m a little old granny. I KNIT those things. With LionBrand Cottonease and with crocheted lace edges. But men get to have a lovely striped one with a manly silk edge ,no lace, instead!

 

[CTCatholic5]

Not sure about the first item; PEW isn’t ignorant of Church teaching, I would guess, but the way they state positions on the subjects could be some interesting reading…if they ever published them.

Second item: Only about 3,000 people responded to this survey; a previous survey had about 3,500 respondents of which (based on their stats) 1/3 were born Catholic, but only 24% still called themselves “Catholic”. I leave that description to your imagination. That would mean that “present Catholics (INO)” would total maybe 740 respondents to the present survey. As we know from other published statistics, only about 20-25% of nominal Catholics actually attend Mass once a week, a serious sin situation. That would translate to (maybe) 185 or so practicing…maybe not all “literate”…Catholics, out of a total of 3,000 people, responded to the current survey.

185 people don’t even make up a regular-sized parish, yet PEW bases “Catholic” positions on these very few people. What a responsibility they have! Maybe we should pray fervently for the continued faith of the 185.

I was actually calling into question the knowledge of those polled–I don’t see how PEW’s knowledge or opinion of Catholic teaching would affect the study.

Although, I do agree with you that the way they frame the survey will have a dramatic impact on the results.

If these statistics are true, my guess is that this is just a natural consequence of the Church’s loosening grip on the moral imagination of Her people, and the waxing of the culture’s hold on them. :-\

 

[Elizabeth502]

Some concrete suggestions please, rather than platitudes?

I think we need the most intellectual and the most politically aware to take the lead in using the language that needs to be used to be the bridge between those who care about these issues (which are not limited to the Catholic Church, by any means) and those among society who casually toss out popular rhetorical phrases without thinking about their meaning, and without thinking about the consequences, to future generations, of experimenting with essential social institutions. Persuasion always starts with language. I think there are effective and aware communicators in the laity (such as Professor Robert George) and in the clergy (such as Bishop Salvatore Cordileone). These people are models of understanding how language and logic work, and how the culture has corrupted one and made a mockery of the other. Both are very much in the world but not of it. Both are also well-informed as to the counter-arguments, and to the realities of modern political movements. They are no fools and suffer no fools; thus, they invite respect. (They don’t use platitudes.) They also understand the violence done to society by those who would focus on the self instead of the common good, thus abandoning the essential principles on which the country was founded. IOW, such spokespeople (and there are far more than just these two) are fluent in non-religious arguments regarding sensitive moral issues, which is the kind of argument that invites listening rather than labeling.

Right now, Bishop Cordileone, focusing on traditional marriage, is chiefly working within churches, and certainly there’s a place for that. Hopefully, he and/or others will eventually encourage the formation of a task force to include lay spokespeople (effective communicators). Right now, I can certainly see why he is focusing internally. It’s astounding how many Catholics do not their own religion’s theology (especially on traditional marriage), and/or consider that theology optional. There was a time not that long ago when at least Catholic school families, and the vast majority of practicing Catholics, could be counted on to (1) know their faith (which includes the reasoning behind the theology), and (2) stand firm in their beliefs, regardless of what secular society was saying or proposing Neither (1) nor (2) can be assumed at present.

(An important adjunct that the good Bishop could do is to make sure that Catholic school families enroll in required, free instruction in Catholic moral precepts as a condition of enrolling their children in these schools. There’s no reason that such instruction cannot be mandated, since the parents do have to sign contracts that they will support the teaching in these schools.)

…Just some suggestions…I’ll think of some others.

 

[JamestheOlder]

Thanks for your serious thoughts, Elizabeth.

Adult education in the Church is terribly under-rated and under-utilized, in my experience in the five parishes in our area. The largest, with some 2500 families, has trouble drawing 100-150 people to multiple classes on Bible Study, Church doctrine and the changes to the NO Mass. Sessions are scheduled in the evenings, as well as daytime, to little avail.

I think a dramatic shift in faith instruction, like you have suggested, may be the wave of the future life of the Church: eliminate elementary “Sunday-school” education in the parishes and concentrate on family education.

The recent videos by Michael Voris (RealCatholicTV) also point to better use of the Internet. But that effort needs to be directed, rather than just scatter-shot browsing.

We can expect the Church to decline in numbers of those who are serious about the Faith, but that may be an advantage, in that we will have a core of more-dedicated evangelists and apologists. Finally, we can only pray for guidance from the Holy Spirit.

Peace.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I think basing anything we do on a ridiculous poll like this will net us exactly -0- in results.