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n8pzo
Guest
:
And maybe I won’t believe in the Immaculate Conception because St. Thomas did not.
The point is that man is fallible, yes even the pope is fallible except when he meets all the requirements for infallibility as explained in Vatican I
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SemperFidelis
Guest
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
St. Thomas Aquinas is fallible. However you can’t deny that the Council of Trent didn’t use much of St. Thomas’ theology, including that of Baptism of Desire in its decrees. The Council of Trent is infallible, and where the theology of St. Thomas is in line with it, his ideas are infallible, however not in and of themselves, but because of the Council. Feeneyism is a novel invention, invented by a man who misinterpreted the Dogma EENS. Too bad, he has not the authority to interpret this Dogma and is out of line with the Magisterium on this. Read this:
romancatholicism.org/trent-baptism.htm
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n8pzo
Guest
Firtst Let’s start with Pius IX- if you are talking about (Singulari Quadem; Dec.9, 1854) a speech to cardinals, which does not meet the criteria of infallibility, where he says “…those who are affected by ignorance of the true religion, if it is invincible ignorance,
are not subject to any guilt in this matter before the eyes of the Lord.”
-Notice they are not guilty in this matter. But since there is no remission of sins outside the Church, they will be damned for their other sins.
Second, the Popes of Trent; I think my last reply explained their position.
Third, Pope Innocent III- if you are speaking about the letter about a priest who died without baptism; “because he
persevered in the faith of holy mother Church and in the confession of the name
of Christ, was freed from original sin and attained the joy of the heavenly
fatherland.” There are a few things wrong with this. There is speculation that this letter was from Innocent II. Many say that it is a forgery since it does not have a date and is not signed by anybody. Also, the first thing that should tip a person off that this is not theologically sound is that there is no such thing as an unbaptized priest.
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TDiGaetano
Guest
I guess I was wrong to judge about them just in it for the money, but they do make good points, but some points are off the wall. They claim Pope JP II to be an antipope one of the first many who are bringing destruction to the church… I just don’t see that.
Their attacks on JPII start off with him wearing an upside down cross… in reference to Satanism… If as Catholics we believe the Pope is the apostolic successor of St. Peter. Then would it not be best to show the world that we hold that as true. Just like the Jesus fish. Many protestants use that symbol does that mean that its not a Catholic symbol any more? The Chi-Rio is used by Lutherans and other non Catholic groups should we stop using it?
Then it talks that Our Lady Prophesied that Rome would lose the Faith and become the seat of the Antichrist.
Then it gives a list of things the Pope Preached…
No reference given to the topics or when he preached them…
Most of them look like they are taken out of context possibly do to translation into english because I have never heard JPII speak of these things until anti-catholic stuff about JPII and Vatican II came out.
The phrase …by his Incarnation, he, the Son of God, in a certain way united himself with Each Man.
They mention it 4 times in their slam against JPII. They then draw the conclusion that JPII was saying that the Son of God did not become man, but rather united himself with a man named Jesus in the incarnation…
When just by looking at that statement we see that JPII is saying that by God becoming man (the incarnation) this allowed Christ to be unite himself with everyone. Is this not a firm Catholic Belief?
That we are all united in Christ because our God became Fully man and remained fully Divine so that through his incarnation he died for our Sins and in baptism we are brought into the oneness of Christ?
The quote “In Reality, the name for that Deep Amazement at Man’s Worth and Dignity is the Gospel, that is to say: The Good News. It is Also called Christianity.”
JPII is telling us the Name of that feeling that Man has for worth and dignity is the Gospel. The good News (Gospel) is what Christianity is all about.
The hope that is given to us in Jesus in the Gospel is that not what Christianity is?
I just don’t see how this relates at all in trying to divide christ into two different people.
I could keep going down their list of reasons why JPII is an Antichrist and show that they are taken out of context, to suit their views on the world. They have cornered themselves and have hardened their hearts. I look at their site and its just full of hate and disrespect and accusations. I don’t see the Church of Christ with these people…
The Prophecy of the Popes, attributed to Saint Malachy, is a list of 112 short phrases in Latin. They purport to describe each of the Roman Catholic popes (along with a few anti-popes), beginning with Pope Celestine II (elected in 1143) and concluding with a later added pope described in the prophecy as “Peter the Roman”, whose pontificate will end in the destruction of the city of Rome.
Before we point fingures at JPII and Vatican II shouldn’t we look at other “Prophecies” before pointing fingures of who and who isnt the antichrist.
The Role the church is playing right now in the world isn’t a role of causing the world to submit to its authority. Its working to unite humanity before the end so that everyone has the chance to know the truth and reject it freely or accept it with all their heart. We should pray that these sinners who do not accept the truth may open their hearts and come back and accept the truth before the end. That is the reason of the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Its not to give Grace to sinners that they maybe saved its to offer prayer and personal sacrifice so that sinners may change their ways and open up to the Truth in Christ.
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n8pzo
Guest
Wow, I can’t believe how dishonest you have been in your replies. I have succeeded in defending that there is NO salvation outside the Catholic Church, no exceptions, as defined over and over again by the infallible pronouncements of the Catholic Church.It seems that you have succeeded in proving that you are of bad will and reject the plain sense of the teachings of the Church. If these teachings were subject to interpretation there would be no end to it. We would suffer the fate of Protestantism.
No matter if all men on earth, besides the pope, declare a teaching to be, it does not make it infallible. Especially when a Pope declares infallibly the opposite. We are to believe what God says, not what man says.
Here’s a quote from God, through Paul, (2 COR. 4:3 “If our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost” v.4 “In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of unbelievers, that the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ…should not shine upon them”
Please ponder and pray over these verses
C
Ceil-1
Guest
It’s interesting this comes up, because I accidentally stumbled on a 6-part series on you-tube put out by these people (stbrigitta.com) entitled: new order, illuminati, rock music…
It is a montage of topics starting with a demonstration of backmasking of rock music in an attempt to convince us that rock music is of the devil. They move to the Masons, rather clumsily, and connect them to the new world order, and so on. I was intrigued because the gentleman was young and intelliegent sounding and was called brother so-andso.
They move from there to a government conspiracy against the Church, including communist infiltration and takeover of the Church which they claim has been accomplished. They link the bombing of Nagasaki and the assissination of JFK to this conspiracy.
The first two videoes were rather good and plausible, especially the information about the Masons. Of course, there was nothing there I didn’t already know, except this person claimed that Masons are Lucifer worshippers and are against the Church. I knew were were over the top, however, when he rather matter-of-factly mentioned that the Japanese had been trying to surrender to us when we went ahead and bombed Nagasaki because it was a Catholic stronghold.
The REAL clincher was when he pulled out the big guns and started claiming a Jewish conspiracy against the Church, and the Jewish connection to this lucifer worship. It was, the Jews are horrible enemies. I half expected to see Mel Gibson quoted by this guy. Now, I know there have been people out there that have attacked the Church, but, there was no point in this video except to incite fear and hatred toward Masons, Jews, and, I guess, rock stars.
THE people putting out the video are this Holy Family Monastery place, and the interesting thing about it, is it is based in my home town of Fillmore, NY. Now, I had my father investigate these people and, apparently, they are quite secretive and reclusive. Apparently there are only a couple or three of them, but they are evidently very prolific. They are seen around town from time to time and are just considered some weird recluses. They came to the local church once or twice to snoop around but were quiet and unassuming. I don’t know how they are getting their sacraments, but they are not getting them locally.
The writings on the website strike me as phrenetic, almost manic. My take on it is that these are a couple or small group of paranoid schizophrenics. A characteristic of a schizophrenic is that they confabulate-that is, take a few facts here and there and fill in the gaps with their delusions. They are very adept at rationalizing their behavior. They can sound very intelligent and argue well, and tend to draw people into their delusions rather easily. This is the goal, to get you to participate in their delusions. At first they seem plausible, but tend to get more and more out there until it just gets ridiculous. An interesting phenomenon is how cleverly they rationalize, it can truly fool a lot of people.
Forgive me, but it seems that may be happening to some of you, and it rather amuses me. Please note, this behavior is very typical of people with that diagnosis. They don’t seem to be hurting anyone, so I suppose they should just be ignored. Can’t help but get a chuckle out of it, though.
It is a montage of topics starting with a demonstration of backmasking of rock music in an attempt to convince us that rock music is of the devil. They move to the Masons, rather clumsily, and connect them to the new world order, and so on. I was intrigued because the gentleman was young and intelliegent sounding and was called brother so-andso.
They move from there to a government conspiracy against the Church, including communist infiltration and takeover of the Church which they claim has been accomplished. They link the bombing of Nagasaki and the assissination of JFK to this conspiracy.
The first two videoes were rather good and plausible, especially the information about the Masons. Of course, there was nothing there I didn’t already know, except this person claimed that Masons are Lucifer worshippers and are against the Church. I knew were were over the top, however, when he rather matter-of-factly mentioned that the Japanese had been trying to surrender to us when we went ahead and bombed Nagasaki because it was a Catholic stronghold.
The REAL clincher was when he pulled out the big guns and started claiming a Jewish conspiracy against the Church, and the Jewish connection to this lucifer worship. It was, the Jews are horrible enemies. I half expected to see Mel Gibson quoted by this guy. Now, I know there have been people out there that have attacked the Church, but, there was no point in this video except to incite fear and hatred toward Masons, Jews, and, I guess, rock stars.
THE people putting out the video are this Holy Family Monastery place, and the interesting thing about it, is it is based in my home town of Fillmore, NY. Now, I had my father investigate these people and, apparently, they are quite secretive and reclusive. Apparently there are only a couple or three of them, but they are evidently very prolific. They are seen around town from time to time and are just considered some weird recluses. They came to the local church once or twice to snoop around but were quiet and unassuming. I don’t know how they are getting their sacraments, but they are not getting them locally.
The writings on the website strike me as phrenetic, almost manic. My take on it is that these are a couple or small group of paranoid schizophrenics. A characteristic of a schizophrenic is that they confabulate-that is, take a few facts here and there and fill in the gaps with their delusions. They are very adept at rationalizing their behavior. They can sound very intelligent and argue well, and tend to draw people into their delusions rather easily. This is the goal, to get you to participate in their delusions. At first they seem plausible, but tend to get more and more out there until it just gets ridiculous. An interesting phenomenon is how cleverly they rationalize, it can truly fool a lot of people.
Forgive me, but it seems that may be happening to some of you, and it rather amuses me. Please note, this behavior is very typical of people with that diagnosis. They don’t seem to be hurting anyone, so I suppose they should just be ignored. Can’t help but get a chuckle out of it, though.
N
n8pzo
Guest
Please be mature and stop calling them names.It’s interesting this comes up, because I accidentally stumbled on a 6-part series on you-tube put out by these people (stbrigitta.com) entitled: new order, illuminati, rock music…
It is a montage of topics starting with a demonstration of backmasking of rock music in an attempt to convince us that rock music is of the devil.They move to the Masons, rather clumsily and connect them to the new world order, and so on. I was intrigued because the gentleman was young and intelliegent sounding and was called brother so-andso. They move from there to a government conspiracy against the Church, including communist infiltration and takeover of the Church which they claim has been accomplished. They link the bombing of Nagasaki and the assissination of JFK to this conspiracy.
The first two videoes were rather good and plausible, especially the information about the Masons. Of course, there was nothing there I didn’t already know, except this person claimed that Masons are Lucifer worshippers and are against the Church. I knew were were over the top, however, when he rather matter-of-factly mentioned that the Japanese had been trying to surrender to us when we went ahead and bombed Nagasaki because it was a Catholic stronghold.
The REAL clincher was when he pulled out the big guns and started claiming a Jewish conspiracy against the Church, and the Jewish connection to this lucifer worship. It was, the Jews are horrible enemies. I half expected to see Mel Gibson quoted by this guy. Now, I know there have been people out there that have attacked the Church, but, there was no point in this video except to incite fear and hatred toward Masons, Jews, and, I guess, rock stars.
THE people putting out the video are this Holy Family Monastery place, and the interesting thing about it, is it is based in my home town of Fillmore, NY. Now, I had my father investigate these people and, apparently, they are quite secretive and reclusive. Apparently there are only a couple or three of them, but they are evidently very prolific. They are seen around town from time to time and are just considered some weird recluses. They came to the local church once or twice to snoop around but were quiet and unassuming. I don’t know how they are getting their sacraments, but they are not getting them locally.
The writings on the website strike me as phrenetic, almost manic. My take on it is that these are a couple or small group of paranoid schizophrenics. A characteristic of a schizophrenic is that they confabulate-that is, take a few facts here and there and fill in the gaps with their delusions. They are very adept at rationalizing their behavior. They can sound very intelligent and argue well, and tend to draw people into their delusions rather easily. This is the goal, to get you to participate in their delusions. At first they seem plausible, but tend to get more and more out there until it just gets ridiculous. An interesting phenomenon is how cleverly they rationalize, it can truly fool a lot of people.
Forgive me, but it seems that may be happening to some of you, and it rather amuses me. Please note, this behavior is very typical of people with that diagnosis. They don’t seem to be hurting anyone, so I suppose they should just be ignored. Can’t help but get a chuckle out of it, though.
Maybe you could even try to prove them wrong on any one of their arguments. But wait you can’t prove them wrong or even know how to try. My advice is to pray for humility and an open attitude towards the truth.
N
n8pzo
Guest
N
n8pzo
Guest
cont’d
-Prophecy of St. Nicholas of Fluh (1417-1487): “The Church will be punished because the
majority of her members, high and low, will become so perverted. The Church will sink
deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished, and the succession of
Peter and the other Apostles to have expired. But, after this, she will be victoriously
exalted in the sight of all doubters.”( Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy by Yves Dupont, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1973, p. 30.) -Bl. Joachim (d. 1202): “Towards the end of the world, Antichrist will overthrow the pope
and usurp his see.” (Rev. Culleton, The Reign of Antichrist, Tan Books, 1974, p. 130.)
This is a true statement. Please read the messages given to Melanie at the apparitions of La Salette. Here are some other prophecies given by saints etc… throughout the ages:
-Prophecy of St. Nicholas of Fluh (1417-1487): “The Church will be punished because the
majority of her members, high and low, will become so perverted. The Church will sink
deeper and deeper until she will at last seem to be extinguished, and the succession of
Peter and the other Apostles to have expired. But, after this, she will be victoriously
exalted in the sight of all doubters.”( Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy by Yves Dupont, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1973, p. 30.) -Bl. Joachim (d. 1202): “Towards the end of the world, Antichrist will overthrow the pope
and usurp his see.” (Rev. Culleton, The Reign of Antichrist, Tan Books, 1974, p. 130.)
- “…St. Bernard speaks in the passage of the Anti-pope [as the Beast of the Apocalypse].” (Rev. Culleton, The Reign of Antichrist, Tan Books, 1974, p. 130.)
-This is part of the original Prayer to St. Michael in the Raccolta that St. Leo XIII received during a vision “…These most crafty enemies have filled and inebriated with gall and bitterness the Church, the spouse of the immaculate Lamb, and have laid impious hands on her most sacred possessions. In the Holy Place itself, where has been set up the See of the most holy Peter and the Chair of Truth for the light of the world, they have raised the throne of their abominable impiety, with the iniquitous design that when the Pastor has been struck, the sheep may be scattered…” (The Raccolta, 1930, Benziger Bros., pp. 314-315. )In 1934 the key phrase referring to the apostasy in Rome was removed.
-St. Alphonsus said: "The devil has always attempted, by means of heretics, to deprive the world of the Mass, making them precursors of the antichrist, who before anything else, will try to abolish and will actually abolish the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as a punishment for the sins of men, according to the prediction of Daniel, ‘And strength was given him against the continual sacrifice.’ " (Daniel 8:12) (St. Alphonsus Liguori, The Dignities and Duties Of The Priest (London: Benzinger Bros., 1889), p. 212.)
-Fr. Mario Luigi Ciappi, papal theologian to Pope Pius XII: “In the Third Secret [of Fatima]
it is foretold, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the
top.” (Ciappi’s personal communication to a Professor Baumgartner in Salzburg, cited in The Devil’s Final Battle,
compiled by Paul Kramer, Good Counsel Publications, 2002; also cited by Father Gerard Mura, “The Third
Secret of Fatima: Has It Been Completely Revealed?”, the periodical Catholic (published by the Transalpine
Redemptorists, Orkney Isles, Scotland, Great Britain), March 2002.)
-Prophecy of Marie Julie Jahenny, Briton Stigmatist (1891): “During the time of the
approach of the punishments announced at La Salette, an unlimited amount of false
revelations will arise from Hell like a swarm of flies; a last attempt of Satan to choke
and destroy the belief in the true revelations by false ones.” (Rev. R. Gerald Culleton, The Reign of Antichrist, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1974, p. 177.)
-Anna-Katarina Emmerick (d. 1824) “I saw how baleful would be the consequences of this false church. I saw it increase in size; heretics of every kind came into the city (of Rome). The local clergy grew lukewarm, and I saw a great darkness…”
-Anna-Katarina Emmerick (d. 1824) “I saw again the new and odd-looking Church which they were trying to build. There was nothing holy about it… People were kneading bread on the crypt below… but it would not rise, nor did they receive the body of Our Lord, but only bread.” (Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy by Yves Dupont, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1973, p. 116.)
-Old German Prophecy "When the world becomes godless, revolutions will break out against kings. Fathers will fight against their sons, and the sons their fathers. The doctrine will be perverted, and they will try to overthrow the Catholic Church.’ ( Yves Dupont, Catholic Prophecy by Yves Dupont, Rockford, IL: Tan Books, 1973, p. 24.)
-Jeanne Le Royer (Sister of the Nativity) “When the reign of antichrist draws near, a false religion will appear which will deny the unity of God and will oppose the Church. Errors will cause ravages as never before.”
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n8pzo
Guest
To say they don’t give any references for their quotes is dishonest. They always provide endnotes as to where you can find the quotes. Please revisit the site and find out for yourself.
I don’t have time right now to show how JPII preached an antichristian doctrine but if you or anyone would like to see it visit
[mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JohnPaulII_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html](http://www.mostholyfamilymonastery.com/JohnPaulII_ma(name removed by moderator)age.html)
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n8pzo
Guest
You admit yourself that there are anti-popes on the list. So the last 5 can be anti-popes also.
S
Sure
Guest
MHFM are pretty funny…a splinter of a splinter of a splinter of a splinter…I mean, how small are they going to get.
Does anyone know what the name of their legal organization is…I mean, if they have one? If they accept donations, are they a charity…if so, what is their name? And where are they located?
How many people attend there regularly?
Does anyone know what the name of their legal organization is…I mean, if they have one? If they accept donations, are they a charity…if so, what is their name? And where are they located?
How many people attend there regularly?
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
So, we’re going to deny the obvious now? Yes, let’s start with Singulari Quidem. A speech? A speech? It is a Papal Encylical aimed at teaching the Faith, and falls under the teaching authority of the Ordinary Magisterium. It’s also interesting to note that this Encyclical finds its way into Denzinger (#'s 1642-1652). Let’s reiterate what the Blessed Pope said:
1647 For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood; but, on the other hand, it is necessary to hold for certain that they who labor in ignorance of the true religion, if this ignorance is invincible, are not stained by any guilt in this matter in the eyes of God. Now, in truth, who would arrogate so much to himself as to mark the limits of such an ignorance, because of the nature and variety of peoples, regions, innate dispositions, and of so many other things? For, in truth, when released from these corporeal chains “we shall see God as He is” 1 John 3:2], we shall understand perfectly by how close and beautiful a bond divine mercy and justice are united; but, as long as we are on earth, weighed down by this mortal mass which blunts the soul, let us hold most firmly that, in accordance with Catholic teaching, there is “one God, one faith, one baptism” Eph. 4:5 ]; it is unlawful to proceed further in inquiry.
This isn’t the only instance for Blessed Pius IX:
From Quanto Conficiamur Moerore, another Papal Encyclical:
And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life [see n. 1717]. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching. It is known to Us and to you that they who labor in invincible ignorance of our most holy religion and who, zealously keeping the natural law and its precepts engraved in the hearts of all by God, and being ready to obey God, live an honest and upright life, can, by the operating power of divine light and grace, attain eternal life, since God who clearly beholds, searches, and knows the minds, souls, thoughts, and habits of all men, because of His great goodness and mercy, **will by no means suffer anyone to be punished with eternal torment who has not the guilt of deliberate sin. **
Interesting to note this also found its way into Denzinger (# 1677)
So, according to the “theology” of you and the Dimond “Brothers,” Blessed Pius IX is a formal heretic. Therefore he could not be Pope. Why then do the Dimond “Brothers” start with Blessed John XXIII?
Answer: BECAUSE THEY ARE WRONG, AND NOT AT ALL CONSISTENT.
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n8pzo
Guest
-The name is Most Holy Family Monastery
-They are an Order of St. Benedict
-Yes they accept donations because they make almost no money off of their material (eg. 100 dvd’s for $6). Usually just charge for shipping
-They’re in Fillmore, NY
-There are about 5 guys at the monastery
-They are all Brothers and no Priests so there is no need for anyone to “attend there regularly”
-As to the size of them and the rest of the true followers of Catholic Doctrine I think St. Gregory sums it up fine:
“Where are they who revile us for our
poverty and pride themselves in their riches? They who define the Church by numbers
and scorn the little flock?” St. Gregory Nazianz (+380), Against the Arians (William Jurgens, The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 2, p. 33. )
T
TDiGaetano
Guest
S
SemperFidelis
Guest
Furthermore let’s clarify a few more Popes for the Dimond “Brothers”:
Catechism of the Council of Trent (edited by St. Charles Borromeo (A.D. 1584):
“On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.”
So would not a “heretical” Catechism ordered by an Ecumenical Council, edited by a Saint, promulgated and published by a Saintly Pope (Pius V), and aimed at teaching the entire Universal Church lead to the Chair being vacant? Are we not again being inconsistent?
Here’s another one:
Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X
16 Q: Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A: Baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation, for our Lord has expressly said: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.”
17 Q: Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A: The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
So once again, would not the promulgation and publishing of a “heretical” Catechism aimed at teaching the Universal Church inflict formal heresy on the Pope who promulgated it? Don’t even begin to argue that Pope Saint Pius X didn’t know his own Catechism said this, because that argument just ain’t gonna fly.
Here’s one from Ven. Pius XII:
“those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church … We ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation.[Cf. Pius IX, Iam Vos Omnes, 13 Sept. 1868] For even though by an unconscious desire and longing have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church.” (Mystici Corporis # 103)
And the fact that this made its way into the Acta Apostolicae Sedis:
“In the present economy there is no other way of communicating [sanctifying grace] to the child who has not yet the use of reason [other than Baptism]. But, nevertheless, the state of grace at the moment of death is absolutely necessary for salvation. Without it, it is not possible to attain supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God. An act of love can suffice for an adult to obtain sanctifying grace and supply for the absence of Baptism; for the unborn child or for the newly born, this way is not open.” (Address to Midwives, Oct. 29, 1951)
So, besides Blessed Pius IX, we’ve got three formally “heretical” Popes here. If the Dimond Brothers are right then they better be consistent, but alas they are not, therefore THEY ARE WRONG.
Catechism of the Council of Trent (edited by St. Charles Borromeo (A.D. 1584):
“On adults, however, the Church has not been accustomed to confer the Sacrament of baptism at once, but has ordained that it be deferred for a certain time. The delay is not attended with the same danger as in the case of infants, which we have already mentioned; should any unforeseen accident make it impossible for adults to be washed in the salutary waters, their intention and determination to receive Baptism and their repentance for past sins, will avail them to grace and righteousness.”
So would not a “heretical” Catechism ordered by an Ecumenical Council, edited by a Saint, promulgated and published by a Saintly Pope (Pius V), and aimed at teaching the entire Universal Church lead to the Chair being vacant? Are we not again being inconsistent?
Here’s another one:
Catechism of Pope Saint Pius X
16 Q: Is Baptism necessary to salvation?
A: Baptism is absolutely necessary to salvation, for our Lord has expressly said: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.”
17 Q: Can the absence of Baptism be supplied in any other way?
A: The absence of Baptism can be supplied by martyrdom, which is called Baptism of Blood, or by an act of perfect love of God, or of contrition, along with the desire, at least implicit, of Baptism, and this is called Baptism of Desire.
So once again, would not the promulgation and publishing of a “heretical” Catechism aimed at teaching the Universal Church inflict formal heresy on the Pope who promulgated it? Don’t even begin to argue that Pope Saint Pius X didn’t know his own Catechism said this, because that argument just ain’t gonna fly.
Here’s one from Ven. Pius XII:
“those who do not belong to the visible Body of the Catholic Church … We ask each and every one of them to correspond to the interior movements of grace, and to seek to withdraw from that state in which they cannot be sure of their salvation.[Cf. Pius IX, Iam Vos Omnes, 13 Sept. 1868] For even though by an unconscious desire and longing have a certain relationship with the Mystical Body of the Redeemer, they still remain deprived of those many heavenly gifts and helps which can only be enjoyed in the Catholic Church.” (Mystici Corporis # 103)
And the fact that this made its way into the Acta Apostolicae Sedis:
“In the present economy there is no other way of communicating [sanctifying grace] to the child who has not yet the use of reason [other than Baptism]. But, nevertheless, the state of grace at the moment of death is absolutely necessary for salvation. Without it, it is not possible to attain supernatural happiness, the beatific vision of God. An act of love can suffice for an adult to obtain sanctifying grace and supply for the absence of Baptism; for the unborn child or for the newly born, this way is not open.” (Address to Midwives, Oct. 29, 1951)
So, besides Blessed Pius IX, we’ve got three formally “heretical” Popes here. If the Dimond Brothers are right then they better be consistent, but alas they are not, therefore THEY ARE WRONG.
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Here again there is nothing against Catholic Teaching on the Dogma “Outside the Catholic Church there is No Salvation”.
First of all, you notice where Pius IX says it’s a grave error of those " who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life"
Interesting that he would go on and say just the opposite as you would like everyone to think.
Then he explains that those who are obedient, honest, upright and keep the natural law can attain eternal life. This is obviously because God would never allow one of His elect to go to hell. He would show this invincibly ignorant person the Church by the “operating power of divine light and grace”.
If not then the first part of the paragraph would be a contradiction.
Are you saying the pope contradicted himself?
This idea takes trust in divine providence which is almost non-existent anymore.
The Pope said nothing in contradiction to the teaching of the Church. All the Catholics you quote that have speculated on BOD and BOB and In. Ig., I can quote as many that have held to the Church’s dogma. If this dogma is so-called “feenyism” then I guess all those saints are feenyites.
Please, in the future read all of my responses so that I don’t have to repeat myself. Thanks- Status