Most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do

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What is marital intimacy but self gift, often with great tenderness, patience, attentiveness, self denial for the pleasure of the other.

Pull orgasm out of the mix and you have a lot of virtues (or vices as the case may be) that a priest practices all the time.

Most of marriage is about virtue and very little about orgasm.
 
Edward_H said:
What is marital intimacy but self gift, often with great tenderness, patience, attentiveness, self denial for the pleasure of the other.

Pull orgasm out of the mix and you have a lot of virtues (or vices as the case may be) that a priest practices all the time.

Most of marriage is about virtue and very little about orgasm.
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But non-marital relationships are quite distinct from the marital relationships. There’s overlap, but it’s not the same thing–there are a lot of non-sex things that I would be very annoyed if my husband were sharing with another woman.
 
How precisely are they different, outside of orgasm?

What unique virtues are required? None.

What unique human facilities are called for?

None.

Similarities far surpass differences, the main one being foreplay and orgasm.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Can a priest know the intimacy with anyone as a husband and wife with each other?
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Yes! Of course! A priest has a most intimate, nuptial, covenantal bond with the Church! I assure you, conjugal love is not the most intimate connection one can have.
 
Augustinian said:
I’m sure that happens occasionally, but I don’t think it happens “most days” by any stretch of the word.
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I think he is referring to scheduled Confessions, or if you pass by the rectory, pop in to ask for a priest to hear your Confession, he will take your Confession. Some priests are really busy. They may have scheduled times visiting the sick. Depends on the parish, number of priests in that parish, how many belong in the parish, and how many people request the priests time. There’s a lot going on in a parish. They have their duties. But, as I’ve went to Confession many times. I have once and awhile popped in the rectory where I asked for a priest to hear my Confession. And luck have it, there’s been a priest. But again, not all parishes function the same with regard to the dynamics of what priests do other than Mass.
 
Edward_H said:
How precisely are they different, outside of orgasm?

What unique virtues are required? None.

What unique human facilities are called for?

None.

Similarities far surpass differences, the main one being foreplay and orgasm.
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You might say the same thing of parents being similar to teachers, and yet the roles are quite distinct.

Likewise, my husband can have only one wife, but can have many non-marital relationships with other people.

The marital relationship is uniquely intimate and hence monogamous.

I think you’re overemphasizing disembodied virtues, not grasping that there are roles and skills involved that are specific to different relationships (husband-wife, teacher-student, priest-penitent, boss-employee, sister-sister, female friend-female friend, etc.).
 
Exactly my point.

It comes down to virtues tested and stretched.

We’re very similar. Priests aren’t that different, very little.

No need to make up terms to dismiss them…“disembowled virtues”. ???
 
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Edward_H said:
I can’t wait for the howls, but hear me out.
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To be fair, the argument often ran is when you are living with the woman (if you are a man), and married to her. The fact she is your helpmate (and you are hers as well) for life. Often including having children. So the dynamics of work, raising your children, and loving/taking care of your spouse. The engagement is going to be completely different and not the same as a priest.

However, the state of the priesthood emulates this in the Church (i.e. the priest - Persona Christi the Bridegroom; the Church - the Bride.) And when the priest baptizes an infant child, or any person/any age, they are birthing that child into a new life in the Church - born of the spirit and water, from above. The priest shares in the intimate embrace/union of a husband and wife cooperating with their desire to bring forward new life. And so, emulating that new life further in the life of the Church - in the manner God places and enrolls that child into His love/Covenant. Does the priest thus emulate in cooperating with that birth of the child through his or her baptism.

From that time being, does the priest confer the graces of the Sacraments over your child. Or any soul through the Rite of Christian initiation. This entails furthering your commitment (as a parent) to see to it, your child enters fully into the Kingdom of God. And that also means when certain affects of life take you down from the Church (usually through sin or sickness.) The priest continues to assist that child’s life through Confession and Anointing of the Sick. Then as the child grows and matures, and wants to be in that relationship in giving new life. They can then submit themselves to the role of marriage. So thus the Sacrament of Marriage entails. Or in Holy Orders, If a lady, she can become a Sister Religious. If a man, a priest.

There’s a shared life between married person’s and the state/life of the priesthood. For, as most priests were born between a mother and a father (both in the state of Matrimonial bond.) And from there, does the priest know/under his role having been a child experiencing the marriage of his parents, does he understand marriage in that way. So thus when the call comes, and knows God’s calling. He then settles out to become a priest. And from their does he emulate that state in Conferring the Sacraments.
 
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To summarize most of the 200+ replies in 18 words in two sentences: there’s an objective approach and there’s a subjective approach to these things. Both have their benefits and drawbacks.
 
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Edward_H said:
But most priests know a lot about marriage. They were raised as part of a family, and so they understand the effects of family life on marriage, and marriage on a family.
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I think the priests see the whole dynamic as they walk with you through your marriage. When they hear Confession. And go with you on the journey of difficulty along the road you are facing. It is then these priests do so well. Many of them have, again, been through marriage of their parents. And know as much about the prospects of marriage as anyone else who knows a bit about being married and parents themselves, from their own parents. The priest has gone through marriage under his parents, as a child. So he knows a thing or two, just from observation and witness of that Covenant relation. But that doesn’t mean he knows exactly the trials of marriage to a specific woman, in the same way. Two different experiences, of two very different realities. But all belonging Covenant to the same and one God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The priest who goes with you on that journey through Confession, Counseling, or Spiritual Direction will gain greater insights because you’ve given him the gift of your Sacramental union, which is Wisdom itself. And from there, the priest becomes better and grows from it. He is then by God’s grace to help others too. Your Confession is a gift to the priesthood. It helps him see what is out there. And know the dynamic of the relationship. But, the nice thing about priests, they are neutral observers. They haven’t been caught up in the emotional aperture of being married in intimate life with someone. Even better, because of this, they preserve the Sacraments for you. They keep to the faith in an uncompromising witness for you. So that they do not give you excuses. They do not hand you down for anything lesser than the love God has for you. Even if they don’t experience marriage the same way as you or I do. They nevertheless, are set apart - Holy. In order to preserve that love, life, and relationship God has. Thus not being compromised nor diminished of/for the full expectation of the life of it.
 
Edward_H said:
I can’t wait for the howls, but hear me out.

Most married people know about precisely one marriage, their own. And some people in these marriages really haven’t put their shoulder into their own marriages, and so they know surprisingly little about even their own marriage.

But most priests know a lot about marriage. They were raised as part of a family, and so they understand the effects of family life on marriage, and marriage on a family.

Good priests sit in confessions - and outside of formal confession times - hear confessions most days, in their offices, in airports, etc…anywhere they wear their collar they are open to be being asked to hear someone’s confession.

And what do they hear in confessions - and in spiritual direction and in marriage counseling sessions they may hold - they hear about married life in all of its marvelous good and ugly details.

They hear about our excuses, our self-justifications, our struggles, our lies, our rationalizations, our failures in being generous husbands or wives, our selfishness, our hopes, our desire to begin again, and again.

They often hear details about one’s marital relationship that some spouses don’t even discuss with their own spouses.

They may not know about a few aspects of married life…but they hear and learn about thousands of marriages in great detail.

They know in ways married people will never know.
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I generally agree with your precepts here and acknowledge that most priests have better understanding of marriage than most laymen. I would however point out that most people learn about marriage through their parents. THis I would argue is why more and more marriages fall apart because they have witnessed their parents marriage / non marriage etc.
 
Yes, they souls struggling or not struggling to be good and holy.

And that’s why they know so much about marriage.
 
Enterprise falls under the cardinal virtue of fortitude. It’s doing more than simply enduring, it’s being opportunistic under difficult circumstances, and seeking an even greater good than simply “holding on” to what one has.

Fortitude might involve endurance…hanging on to a life raft…just to use a physical example…but “enterprise” might involve finding a way to save even more people from the capsizing of a ship by finding a way to signal others, to move one’s liferaft to them by fashioning a sail out of coats and blankets, that sort of thing.

So it’s really going beyond the call in an opportunistic way - in times of trouble - to secure an even greater good.

It could be applied to non-physical events too, just takes some imagination.

It’s the virtue of turning events around, not just barely getting through them.

There’s a great story of a Marine company commander in Korea who - in 20 degrees below circumstances - cut off and surrounded by the enemy watching his wounded men slowly give in to the elements…one night he had a spur of “enterprise” and he said ‘I think we need to do some raids on the enemies supply line’ and so he put together a small group of mostly able Marines and led them out of the security of their camp at night and started screwing with the North Koreans, and this totally turned the situation around…and the rest of the Marines responded to these small victories…and rallied a stronger defense until such time as reinforcements could be sent.

That’s enterprise.
 
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