Most priests know far more about marriage than most married people do

[Edward_H]

What are disembodied virtues please?

People just make up terms.

Be specific.

 

[gracepoole]

What are disembodied virtues please?

People just make up terms.

Be specific.

Words do have meaning.

dis·em·bod·y
ˌdisəmˈbädē/
verb
past tense: disembodied; past participle: disembodied

separate or free (something) from its concrete form.

vir·tue
ˈvərCHo͞o/
noun
noun: virtue; plural noun: virtues

1. behavior showing high moral standards.
"paragons of virtue"
synonyms:	goodness, virtuousness, righteousness, morality, integrity, dignity, rectitude, honor, decency, respectability, nobility, worthiness, purity; More
principles, ethics
"the simple virtue of farm life"
antonyms:	vice, iniquity

(BTW, Xantippe didn’t coin the phrase “disembodied virtues.” It’s been used for several centuries by lauded authors.)

 

[Edward_H]

Well but that’s not an answer. It’s just two unlinked definitions.

Do the work of giving us examples using real virtues and circumstances relevant for priests and lay, respectively.

Time for some harder work than cut and paste.

We have almost trained our cat to cut and paste, without the snark.

Let’s see…

 

[gracepoole]

You can’t put two definitions together to understand a phrase? Here, I’ll help:

Disembodied virtues = high moral standards that are separate or free from their concrete forms.

(In addition to a writing class, I also suggest a basic philosophy course. A few lessons on Aristotle and the phrase disembodied virtues likely would seem quite comfortable to you. A quick preview: moral virtue is inherently linked with activity. Virtues spoken of without associated actions are empty, much like listing virtues that one might need to hone in marriage without any sense of actions that grow them.)

 

[Edward_H]

Sorry…that doesn’t pass the test of intellectual work.

You need to substantiate the introduction of this term into the discussion, using the material of the discussion, emphasizing how it adds or differentiates. As it stands, it doesn’t do any work, but give you a little platform to preach about Aristotle.

So let’s begin the real work at this point (no running away with condescending comments about my education):
what precisely is a disembodied virtue in a priest in contrast to one in a lay person?" and how do these differ from other virtues they have respectively.

So far the term is fogging, not clarifying.

 

[gracepoole]

Sorry…that doesn’t pass the test of intellectual work.

Yes, I’ve often thought that of Aristotle…

You misread (I assume innocently) the phrase used by Xantippe. I clarified it for you. Then you claimed it was “made up” by Xantippe. I demonstrated to you that this isn’t the case. And now that you know it’s an actual term, you require others to hand hold you through its explanation (after, I might add, I offered a very rudimentary – read: easy to understand – explanation that can be easily applied to the conversation at hand). That’s a mighty enticing offer but I’ll have to pass. The effort you’re putting forth doesn’t “pass the test of intellectual work.”

 

[MichaelP3]

Before marrying a Catholic, I did my fair research on sites with Priests as people who gave advice. Honestly not even one of the 50 priests gave any substantial advice and just seemed too philosophical and totally detached from the real world. This became in my mind a fact after I got married. They have an idealistic idea that may work somewhere, but in the real world they are far removed!

 

[Edward_H]

I want someone to justify the introduction of this term “unembodied virtues” into this discussion.

When I earned my Ph.D, in engineering one of the first seminars I took was on the philosophy of science. There’s a principle that I learned in that short course called “parsimony” that rears its head here: introduce no additional theory or hypothesis than the data demands, introduce no terms not demanded by the data, introduce no new experimental variable or measure unless it’s strongly suggested from previous findings.

So, with my more technical background, I am not budging.

And since you can’t bridge the gap by giving us the substantiation, I suggest you skip this sub-thread.

 

[Xantippe]

I want someone to justify the introduction of this term “unembodied virtues” into this discussion.

When I earned my Ph.D, in engineering one of the first seminars I took was on the philosophy of science. There’s a principle that I learned in that short course called “parsimony” that rears its head here: introduce no additional theory or hypothesis than the data demands, introduce no terms not demanded by the data, introduce no new experimental variable or measure unless it’s strongly suggested from previous findings.

So, with my more technical background, I am not budging.

And since you can’t bridge the gap by giving us the substantiation, I suggest you skip this sub-thread.

Again, it was “disembodied virtues.”

I’m supposed to be doing something else, but very briefly, gracepoole is correct to say:

A few lessons on Aristotle and the phrase disembodied virtues likely would seem quite comfortable to you. A quick preview: moral virtue is inherently linked with activity. Virtues spoken of without associated actions are empty, much like listing virtues that one might need to hone in marriage without any sense of actions that grow them.)

 

[Edward_H]

So again I ask someone to apply this to the question at hand.

are you saying that a priest’s temperance is somehow disembodied? or the lay person?
or is his charity, or his fortitude, or his chastity, or his patience, or his attentiveness, or his humility.

there’s an assertion here of a virtue that exists in concept only not practiced (as it’s said in places “…more honored in the breach than in the observance”…)

so what is not practiced in the case of the priest, or the lay??

That’s what is missing big time here.

 

[Xantippe]

are you saying that a priest’s temperance is somehow disembodied? or the lay person?

or is his charity, or his fortitude, or his chastity, or his patience, or his attentiveness, or his humility.

It’s specific to the circumstances.

Take for example, the pregnant or nursing mother’s temperance. She’s supposed to be eating appropriately to her condition, forgoing alcohol, limiting caffeine, perhaps forgoing or limiting quite a number of different foods and medications, but at the same time not fasting on fast days. The priest’s temperance is going to be quite different.

Likewise, the married couple’s chastity is quite distinct from the celibate Roman Catholic priest’s celibacy. Etc.

How virtue looks is very specific to the particular duties of different stations in life.

 

[Edward_H]

So it’s not really disembodied then is it?

No.

So now, how is it different per circumstances?

Does the exercise of the virtue require more of a particular faculty in one or the other circumstances?

 

[Xantippe]

So it’s not really disembodied then is it?

No.

So now, how is it different per circumstances?

Does the exercise of the virtue require more of a particular faculty in one or the other circumstances?

It’s disembodied virtue if the person (like yourself, for example) won’t talk in any sort of detail how the virtue is supposed to be manifested.

You did very well with your Korean example for enterprise, but I’m afraid that on the whole, you’ve mostly just named a bunch of virtues without explaining how they are supposed to be realized in daily marital life (your big wall o’virtues was particularly egregious). I feel that if you spoke in detail, you’d realize that virtue is going to look very different in the celibate cleric than it will in the marital/familial home.

 

[Edward_H]

The chastity of a married man and a priest is actually more alike than you think.

A married man has to ignore all women for sexual gratification BUT ONE.

Only one more than the priest. Out of 4 billion or so women.

 

[Xantippe]

The chastity of a married man and a priest is actually more alike than you think.

A married man has to ignore all women for sexual gratification BUT ONE.

Only one more than the priest. Out of 4 billion or so women.

Part of the married man’s chastity is not looking at his wife primarily as a source of “sexual gratification.”

 

[Edward_H]

I give classes on these virtues and other matters to Catholic men.

I can go into as much detail in the others as I did with enterprise.

But that’s not what this thread is about so the listing works for its purpose here.

 

[Edward_H]

Exactly, and so that makes him and the priest’s chastity EVEN more similar.

 

[steido01]

I made a post defending Roman Catholic practice and that’s the sentence you seize on?

Bruh, you gotta find something better to do with yourself than parse through my posts for your trolling fodder.

 

[Xantippe]

Exactly, and so that makes him and the priest’s chastity EVEN more similar.

But marital chastity also involves being appropriately sexual with one’s spouse. It’s not really the same thing at all.

 

[AugustTherese]

I made a post defending Roman Catholic practice

One can find fault in the Roman Catholic Church for many things

, bruh! …