Most Protestants believe in SOLA FIDE but what about........???

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Hi, Rick,

I think you may have jumped on the wrong end. The idea that DOShea was trying to stress is that if by SF one means the profess Christ as their Savior and never lift another finger to either strengthen their belief in Christ or to aid their neighbor. In effect, "If saying, ‘Lord! Lord’ is all that is necessary, then I can handle that.

From my understanding of Protestantism today, few have this meaning. Such a meaning has never been a Catholic belief. Maybe we are really on the same page… 🙂

If you don’t mind, I have two questions of you… 😃 Thanks in advance.

(1.) I am not familiar with a Religion called “His”. Would you mind telling me about it?

(2.) I would appreciate it if you would clarify the statement that I emboldened below, specific to John 6’s treatment of the Eucharist.

Thanks.

God bless
Lost me on #1
#2 there is not literal eating of the flesh and blood of Jesus; those are the people to which the veil was not lifted and they walked away in unbeleif; John 6"63 Jesus tells the manner in which He was speaking, which is spitual, not literal. That whole sermon is not a difficult passage to interpret; it is that clear.
 
You are seeing this from a fallen human perspective. God sees the intent of the heart concerning works; which is why they will be tested by fire to reveal to all which were the works prepared by God beforehand and which ones were done in the name of God but from a heart of self-righteousness.
How about non-Christian who does a good work out of love? What then?
You cannot disprove God’s Truth as revealed by His word; you can deny His truth, which you are and have based on what you wrote above.
I have not disputed God’s truth based on what I wrote above. Please show how I have denied God’s truth.
Sola Fide is not an invention like the office of papacy; it is a qualified truth that always existed, just not defined.
A QUALIFIED truth? Does truth need qualification? Truth is truth. So please show how Solaf Fide can be supported from the Bible.
One adds to God’s word, the other has always been part of His word.
Again, show where Sola Fide is part of God’s Word.
You do not need to convine me or anyone that this is not so; you must refute God, He is the one who wrote it.
Nope I am refuting you. God did not write it. That you have not shown one single scripture verse to support your assertions just proves my point.
Good luck on that one. R.I.P.
You too.🙂
 
You have chosen by your own admission what the Word of God clearly and explicitly in a multitude of crystal clear passages in Scripture. Jesus is the living Word of God; so your denial is the equivilent, in God’s sight, of rejecting His the Word.
Where has DOShea done that?
Santification is the process where we are transformed into the image of Christ;
Can you describe how that process takes place?
it is not what justifies a person, it is the result of the justification and the new nature.
So once you have been declared just, then voila you are sanctified? And what is the process of justification? Is it a case of someone professing Jesus as Lord and God and therefore they are then declared just.
Your denial of this, is the denial of the gospel, which is what to a soul?
And how does that follow?
You can argue with me or anyone else about it, but it is God that you must argue with because He is the justifier and He has set the standard and given us the living Word.
But I doubt if DOShea meant otherwise. Of course God is the justifier. But what has that got to do with DOShea’s post that you are replying to.
 
I think some of the essential doctrines of the Catholic Faith are not true,
Which ones and why ?
leaving you with problems when debating Protestants.
We have not encountered any so far.
But we are not saved from the comming day of wrath by having perfect doctrine. We are saved by the person and work of Christ alone, in spite of our Christian communities. The true church that is united to Christ is truly catholic (universal). 😉

And Christ prayed that “they be one”. The proliferation of protestant denominations makes a lit of that.

James 5:16 The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

No one is more righteous than Christ so His prayer must have been heard. If His prayer was heard, then it means that His Church is one. So which Church to this day remains as one but the Catholic Church.
 
Hi Rick,

What an incredible thought…:rolleyes:

You may be interested in knowing that we interact with people (even on this list) that we do not know (or, will ever physcially see) - yet we can convey the Message of Christ to Love God with all our heart, mind and strength - and our neignbor as ourself. This message comes through in what we do - and not necessarily from a pulpit.
Let’s pray not; you don’t even know the gospel, so how would anyone be able to come to Christ without the gospel of grace?

If you think I am wrong, then tell us the gospel. 👍
I’d suggest to change your so-called ‘prayer’ to one spreading the Gospel of Christ to who you come in contact with - and as St., Francis of Assisi said, only when necessary, use words!

We all pray that we use the Grace of God to honor God and spread His Word. I know I have wasted many of His Graces - but, through His Love, He continues to shower them on me. This list is such a Grace - allowing us to gather in Christ’s Holy Name and to offer Him praise. Look at how you can expand your own horizons in Christ’s Name. 🙂

God bless
 
Hi, Rick,

Look to the upper right-hand corner of this post, and you will see the word “Religion”. I responded to that question with :Cradel Catholic’ and you responded to that question with “His”. I asked you what religion that was because I had not heard of it before. Did that explain #1?

God bless
 
Hi, Rick,
Lost me on #1
#2 there is not literal eating of the flesh and blood of Jesus; those are the people to which the veil was not lifted and they walked away in unbeleif; John 6"63 Jesus tells the manner in which He was speaking, which is spitual, not literal. That whole sermon is not a difficult passage to interpret; it is that clear.
It is obviously not a difficult passage to interpret incorrectly…😃 Here … let me help you with this… Christ tells His audience of apparently hungry Jews that He is Food. I have underlined and number these passages so you can see - this is really quite literal.

**25
And when they found him across the sea they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”
26
Jesus answered them and said, “Amen, amen, I say to you, you are looking for me not because you saw signs but because you ate the loaves and were filled.
27
Do not work for food that perishes but for the food that endures for eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. (1) For on him the Father, God, has set his seal.”
28
So they said to him, “What can we do to accomplish the works of God?”
29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in the one he sent.”
30
So they said to him, “What sign can you do, that we may see and believe in you? What can you do?
31
16 Our ancestors ate manna in the desert, as it is written: ‘He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’”
32
So Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, it was not Moses who gave the bread from heaven; my Father gives you the true bread from heaven. (2)
33
For the bread of God is that which comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.” (3)
34
So they said to him, “Sir, give us this bread always.”
35
17 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life(4) ; whoever comes to me will never hunger(5) , and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (6)
36
But I told you that although you have seen (me), you do not believe.
37
Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me,
38
because I came down from heaven not to do my own will but the will of the one who sent me.
39
And this is the will of the one who sent me, that I should not lose anything of what he gave me, but that I should raise it (on) the last day.
40
For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in him may have eternal life, and I shall raise him (on) the last day.”
41
The Jews murmured about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven,” (7)
42
and they said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph? Do we not know his father and mother? Then how can he say, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
43
Jesus answered and said to them, “Stop murmuring among yourselves.
44
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draw him, and I will raise him on the last day.
45
It is written in the prophets: ‘They shall all be taught by God.’ Everyone who listens to my Father and learns from him comes to me.
46
Not that anyone has seen the Father except the one who is from God; he has seen the Father.
47
Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
48
I am the bread of life. (8)
49
Your ancestors ate the manna in the desert, but they died;
50
this is the bread that comes down from heaven so that one may eat it and not die. (9)
51
I am the living bread that came down from heaven (10) ; whoever eats this bread will live forever; (11) and the bread that I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” (12)
52
The Jews quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us (his) flesh to eat?” (13)
53
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. (14)
54
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. (15)
55
For my flesh is true food, (16) and my blood is true drink. (17)
56
Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. (18)
57
Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. (19)
58
This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.” (20)
59
These things he said while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.
60
Then many of his disciples who were listening said, “This saying is hard; who can accept it?”
61
Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, “Does this shock you?
62
What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before?
63
It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
64
But there are some of you who do not believe.” Jesus knew from the beginning the ones who would not believe and the one who would betray him.
65
And he said, “For this reason I have told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by my Father.”
66
As a result of this, many (of) his disciples returned to their former way of life and no longer accompanied him.
67
Jesus then said to the Twelve, “Do you also want to leave?”
68
Simon Peter answered him, “Master, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.
69
We have come to believe and are convinced that you are the Holy One of God.”
70
Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you twelve? Yet is not one of you a devil?”
71
He was referring to Judas, son of Simon the Iscariot; it was he who would betray him, one of the Twelve. **

In all honesty, v60-62 show disbelief, v63 chides the Jews for being carnal and not spiritual.

God bless
 
The problem is that you don’t understand “sola fide.” Sola fide means simply that we are *justified *by faith alone. That then raises the question: what is the role of good works? And different Protestants would give different answers to that (aside from the fact that some don’t believe in sola fide at all). You have apparently encountered what are called “antinomian” Protestants–in my experience Southern Baptists in particular often tend that way, though by no means all Southern Baptists are antinomians. They would say that yes, a believer has free will to sin and could conceivably sin persistently and unrepentantly and still go to heaven.
What this means in practice (a position held by many Protestants who are not Reformed) is that (as others have pointed out) if you have true faith you *will *show that faith by your works. So while works are unnecessary for *justification, *they will always be present in the life of a true believer.

If you think this is complicated, try explaining transubstantiation sometime!

Edwin
Please don’t spread your misinformation; especially concerning the SBC; you obviously have based your generalization on the basis of a few individuals. ***How about doing your homework first; go to the Statement of Faith on the SBC sight and then apologize and correct your error. *** It is offensive to have someone give the notion that you can be in a pattern of continual sin that is left unchecked and give the impression that this would be tolerated among the SBC affiliated churches. I would say it is the very opposite; they see a sinning brother who is repetitive, they will actually come along side and bring to repentance or envolk church discipline.

I see the disclaimer that “not all”, but the implication is that a good % or most, which gives a gross misperception of the truth.

I have been associted with SBC and I don’t know of any that follow the nonsense you just put out.
Romans 3:29-31 Or is God {the God} of Jews only? Is He not {the God} of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

sbc.net/bfm/bfm2000.asp (SBC Faith Statments - very through and easy to follow)
 
I don’t think you have a good understanding in what the Protesant Reformers believed in regards to sola fide. We are justified by faith alone, but the faith that justifies a sinner is not alone from a progressive love and affection of God and fellow man, and walking in the works that God prepared for him to do. I think Catholics need to understand that there is a difference between true saving faith from the Spirit (John 3) which justifies the sinner which results in transformation, and a dead faith which is demonic and from the flesh of man (James 2)

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Anthony N. S. Lane from Justification by Faith in Catholic-Protestant Dialogue: An Evangelical Assessment

Justification refers to my status; sanctification to my state.

Justification is about God’s attitude to me changing; sanctification is about God changing me.

Justification is about how God looks on me; sanctification is about what he does in me.

Justification is about Christ dying for my sins on the cross; sanctification is about Christ at work in me by the Holy Spirit changing my life.

The Reformers were careful to distinguish the two—but not to separate them One cannot have the one without the other—as with the heat and light of the sun. The sun gives out heat and light. These two cannot be separated. When the sun shines there is both heat and light; yet they are distinct and not to be confused. We are not warmed by the sun’s light nor illuminated by its heat. To use a modern illustration, justification and sanctification are like the two legs of a pair of trousers, not like socks which may well become separated and, in the author’s experience, too often do become separated.
How can they possibly understand? They have a theology that teaches them the Holy Spirit resides with a magisterium, which is why most of them are weak on Biblical knowledge; plus since everything is interpreted for them, there is no incentive to read and study the Bible. How are Christians santified? Though the Word of God, which is the living Christ or even more accurate the Living Trinity working in and through each believer.

We need to start a thread on exactly what “Sanctification” is/is not according the the Bible and not according to all other doctrines under the sun.
 
How about non-Christian who does a good work out of love? What then?
God help you if that is a serious question; a nonChristian; therefore in God’s sight they cannot do something out of love for God; only self.
A QUALIFIED truth? Does truth need qualification? Truth is truth. So please show how Solaf Fide can be supported from the Bible.
Lack of a better term perhaps “discovered and put into context” would have been better.
Again, show where Sola Fide is part of God’s Word.
Nope I am refuting you. God did not write it. That you have not shown one single scripture verse to support your assertions just proves my point.
You just denied that faith alone is what justifies us before God; yet according to God in both the OT & NT; God justifies believers exactly the same way, which is on the sole basis of what? FAITH God does not change, especially in the way He justifies manking least He would have a “double-standard”. The only difference between the OT and NT justification is from the human perspective, which the OT’s looked toward the Christ, we look back at the Christ, but the point is the same…those who look to and put their faith in Christ will be justified in His sight. For no other Name has been given through which we are justified, saved from our sins or made righteous in His sight.

It would really help the dialogue if you knew something about the Word of God.
To ask where “Faith” is in Scripture for the basis for justification; is like asking where the steering wheel is when your sitting in the driver’s seat; it right in from of you. Here is a partial list of verses that show that salvation/justification is by faith. Hebrews 11 is "the heroes of the faith chapter - ever heard of it? See if you can count how many times the word “faith” is used in Hebrews Chapter 11.
  1. John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.”
  2. Rom. 3:22, “even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction.”
  3. Rom. 3:24, “being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus;”
  4. Rom. 3:26, “for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.”
  5. Rom. 3:28-30, “For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one.”
  6. Rom. 4:3, "For what does the Scripture say? “And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
  7. Rom. 4:5, “But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is reckoned as righteousness,”
  8. Rom. 4:11, “And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also,”
  9. Rom. 4:16, “Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all.”
  10. Rom. 5:1, “therefore having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,”
  11. Rom. 5:9, “Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him.”
  12. Rom. 9:30, “What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith.”
  13. Rom. 9:33, "just as it is written, “Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, And he who believes in Him will not be disappointed.”
  14. Rom. 10:4, “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.”
  15. Rom. 10:9-10, “that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
  16. Rom. 11:6, “But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.”
  17. Gal. 2:16, “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”
  18. Gal. 2:21, “I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly.”
  19. Gal.3:5-6, “Does He then, who provides you with the Spirit and works miracles among you, do it by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 6Even so Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.”
  20. Gal. 3:8, "And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations shall be blessed in you.”
  21. Gal. 3:14, “in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”
  22. Gal. 3:22, “But the Scripture has shut up all men under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.”
  23. Gal. 3:24, “Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, that we may be justified by faith.”
  24. Eph. 1:13, “In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise.”
  25. Eph. 2:8, “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God.”
  26. Phil. 3:9, “and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith.”
  27. 1 Tim. 1:16, “And yet for this reason I found mercy, in order that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience, as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.”
If you would like more, then ask 🙂
 
Hi Rick,

What an incredible thought…:rolleyes:

You may be interested in knowing that we interact with people (even on this list) that we do not know (or, will ever physcially see) - yet we can convey the Message of Christ to Love God with all our heart, mind and strength - and our neignbor as ourself. This message comes through in what we do - and not necessarily from a pulpit.

I’d suggest to change your so-called ‘prayer’ to one spreading the Gospel of Christ to who you come in contact with - and as St., Francis of Assisi said, only when necessary, use words!

We all pray that we use the Grace of God to honor God and spread His Word. I know I have wasted many of His Graces - but, through His Love, He continues to shower them on me. This list is such a Grace - allowing us to gather in Christ’s Holy Name and to offer Him praise. Look at how you can expand your own horizons in Christ’s Name. 🙂

God bless
Dodging the question and issue under the guise of charity? 👍
 
Hi, Rick,

Look to the upper right-hand corner of this post, and you will see the word “Religion”. I responded to that question with :Cradel Catholic’ and you responded to that question with “His”. I asked you what religion that was because I had not heard of it before. Did that explain #1?

God bless
Thank you for the clarification; now I understand the question. Religion is man making God in His image or man at his worst; not his best. Christianity is a person, not a religion. We refer to it as a religion more for the secular and false religious world. But for the believer it is all about Jesus and the intimate relationship with “Him”. i was bought for a heavy price and now I am “His”.
 
Hi, Rick,

It is obviously not a difficult passage to interpret incorrectly…😃 Here … let me help you with this… Christ tells His audience of apparently hungry Jews that He is Food. I have underlined and number these passages so you can see - this is really quite literal.

**25
And when they found him across the sea they said to him, “Rabbi, when did you get here?”

17 Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life**(4) ; whoever comes to me will never hunger(5) , and whoever believes in me will never thirst. (6)

If you knew the Bible you would know two things; 1) Jesus used metaphores concerning earthly ideas to give spiritual lessons regularly concerning Himself and His offer of Salvation & 2) Jesus always set the example and did not leave w/o setting the example. Therefore at the Lord’s supper Jesus broke what? Bread or flesh? Drank what? Wine or blood? How do you reconcile that Jesus did not set the literal example of flesh and blood? Whereas He did set the literal example in bread and wine. A thorough reading of Acts will show how the apostles and the new converts celebrated by braking bread.

As I said, the people that took Jesus literally are the one’s with unbelief…nothing changes in that regard. Even Peter was smart enough to say "where should we go; You have the WORDS of LIFE (paraphrased). Your Peter didn’t miss the point and you claim to follow the apostle Peter???
 
Hi, Rick,

If you consider my response to be a ‘dodge’, then you really do not know the meaning of the word. Actually, your resonse is truly ironic.

It really appears as though you did not bother to read what I wrote and simply dismissed it.

That is fine. I have two more items, then I will be finished with responses back to you.
Dodging the question and issue under the guise of charity? 👍
I guess the issue is, if you ask for material and then get it, but, don’t know what to do with it, then merely criticizing is not an adult response.

God bless
 
Hi, Rick

So, the idea is (all) religion is man making God in His image…:rolleyes: You are saying you are not a member of any organized religion? Fine. That is the way I undersand your resonse.
Thank you for the clarification; now I understand the question. Religion is man making God in His image or man at his worst; not his best. Christianity is a person, not a religion. We refer to it as a religion more for the secular and false religious world. But for the believer it is all about Jesus and the intimate relationship with “Him”. i was bought for a heavy price and now I am “His”.
I am a Catholic. My religion was founded by Christ on Peter and we can trace the Succession from Peter to Benedict XVI. While there are many other things that can be said, the bottom line is that you know immediately where I stand.

God bless
 
Hi, Rick,

Yes, Christ did use metaphores in his teaching. But, you know, not once did he use one metaphore with 20 statements telling you to believe exactly what He said. It appears that you need to be able to make a distinction between what Christ often did and what He did in John 6. It was my hope that underlining and numbering the sections would help you to see this.
If you knew the Bible you would know two things; 1) Jesus used metaphores concerning earthly ideas to give spiritual lessons regularly concerning Himself and His offer of Salvation & 2) Jesus always set the example and did not leave w/o setting the example. Therefore at the Lord’s supper Jesus broke what? Bread or flesh? Drank what? Wine or blood? How do you reconcile that Jesus did not set the literal example of flesh and blood? Whereas He did set the literal example in bread and wine. A thorough reading of Acts will show how the apostles and the new converts celebrated by braking bread.

If you read John 6, you will also see the section where Christ identifed three things:
**
(1) God wants us to believe what Jesus is telling us,

(2) Jesus says that no one can come to Him unless the Father sends them, and

(3) Jesus says His Flesh is real Food and commands that we eat it in order to have eternal life.**

The Jews walked away because they would not believe Christ was giving us His Flesh and Blood to eat. You are doing the same. Jesus said to the Apostles at the Last Supper, “This is My Body” - not “This is My Bread”. You either belileve the Words of Christ or you don’t. There is no middle ground of hiding in the argument of a metaphor which I disporved to you in John 6

As I said, the people that took Jesus literally are the one’s with unbelief…nothing changes in that regard. Even Peter was smart enough to say "where should we go; You have the WORDS of LIFE (paraphrased). Your Peter didn’t miss the point and you claim to follow the apostle Peter???
Truly, that is priceless: taking Someone at their Word shows unbelief, yet denying what They said, shows belief. There is no where in any language where they has ever been shown to make sense, much less actually done. Peter’s statement, which you misunderstand clearly addresses the Words Christ used to the Jews “My Flesh is real food and My Blood is real drink”. Christ did not use sign language, paint a picture or use anything else but WORDS to convey His meaning. In ffact, if you look at the NT, all of His WORDS are in quotation marks. What else do you want Him to use. The WORDS OF ETERNAL LIFE are these: “My Flesh is real food…” but, you deny this and accuse those who do believe the WORDS OF CHRIST of unbelief.

I have said all I can say to you. You simply choose to ignore and insult what is presented. That is sad.

God bless
 
I think Catholics need to understand that there is a difference between true saving faith from the Spirit (John 3) which justifies the sinner which results in transformation, and a dead faith which is demonic and from the flesh of man (James 2)
I am sure that there are Catholics that don’t understand this, just as there are many protestants that don’t. However, Jn. 3 and James 2 are letters written by Catholics, for Catholics. This is a catholic Teaching. I am glad to know you share it, though. 😃
The Reformers were careful to distinguish the two—but not to separate them One cannot have the one without the other—as with the heat and light of the sun. The sun gives out heat and light. These two cannot be separated. When the sun shines there is both heat and light; yet they are distinct and not to be confused. We are not warmed by the sun’s light nor illuminated by its heat. To use a modern illustration, justification and sanctification are like the two legs of a pair of trousers, not like socks which may well become separated and, in the author’s experience, too often do become separated.
I am glad to read this. I was just getting castigated on another thread by a Reformed Christian who is insisting that they are separated. I was making this same point that they must flow from one another, and though they are distinct, they are not separate. God does not sanctify those who are not justified. He does not justify those He does not intend to sanctify.
 
Are good works by non-Christians pleasing to God according to Scripture?
That depends upon the state of the non-Christian. Paul makes it clear that those who have not been exposed to the Teaching of God can still do deeds that are pleasing to Him. God has made Himself plain to all of humanity through general revelation (creation and human conscience). Everyone is given sufficient grace to come to the knowledge of the Truth. Each person is obligated to act in accordance with the Truth that has been revealed to them. So, when Pagans (Gentiles) do what God desires, even though they have not received the Truth about Christ, they are judged according to their consistency with their own conscience (their own thoughts accuse and perhaps excuse them).

It is very important to distinguish in this discussion between Holy Works and works of the flesh. Even those who have not known God can engage in Holy Works because they are in cooperation with the degree of grace and truth (the measure) that has been given to them.

Works of the flesh (those attempts that have their source in human will, ambition,and desires) are by nature not able to please God. Even the same works (good deeds, such as feeding the poor) when done by one in the flesh cannot please God. Only good deeds done in a state of grace through faith can please Him.

So, the issue is, can someone who has not known God in a personal way as a Christian does engage in works pleasing to God? The Apostles say yes, one can be in a state of grace, and through faith, act in accordance with God’s will, even if they do not realize it is God’s will.
 
The goats and tares and the bastards in the church
:bigyikes:
(Hebrews 12) have a demonic dead faith until they become sheeps by the will and grace of God. … Do you see saving faith to be a gift from God, or do you see saving faith coming from self? Here is a good challenge for you to grow in faith: does God make you a sheep or do you make yourself into a sheep? Please answer this within the context of John chapter 3 and the words of Jesus Christ.
We are sheep by nature. We are either stray sheep, or sheep that hear and obey the voice of the Shepherd. It is He who makes us sheep that can and do follow Him, as we do not have it in ourselves to transform ourselves. At the same time, that transformation does not take place without our cooperation and participation. He does not make us obedient sheep against our will, and it is possible to stray off and get eaten by wild animals. :eek:

We are to do everything we are able, within the gifts He has given, to be the very best sheep possible. This is how we work out our salvation. We can do this BECAUSE God is at work in us to will and to do His good pleasure.
 
:bigyikes:

We are sheep by nature. We are either stray sheep, or sheep that hear and obey the voice of the Shepherd. It is He who makes us sheep that can and do follow Him, as we do not have it in ourselves to transform ourselves. At the same time, that transformation does not take place without our cooperation and participation. He does not make us obedient sheep against our will, and it is possible to stray off and get eaten by wild animals. :eek:

We are to do everything we are able, within the gifts He has given, to be the very best sheep possible. This is how we work out our salvation. We can do this BECAUSE God is at work in us to will and to do His good pleasure.
I would have to strongly disagree with your statement that we are sheep by nature. I think we are all goats by nature and children of Satan, or children of Adam.
 
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