Most Unheeded Encyclicals?

[WFS5801]

Pascendi Dominici Gregis describes perfectly the Vatican II Religion

Agreed. Fits perfectly with the “reforming mania” attributed to the Modernists as mentioned in the Encyclical.

 

[markomalley]

Obviously Quod Apostolici Muneris has got to be right up there…particularly with those who supported Obamacare (to include those who would have had it excluded abortion)

In that light, Quadragesimo Anno has got to be listed as well (particularly in light of its teaching on subsidiarity).

And let us also not forget the neglect of Annum Sacrum

This world-wide and solemn testimony of allegiance and piety is especially appropriate to Jesus Christ, who is the Head and Supreme Lord of the race. His empire extends not only over Catholic nations and those who, having been duly washed in the waters of holy baptism, belong of right to the Church, although erroneous opinions keep them astray, or dissent from her teaching cuts them off from her care; it comprises also all those who are deprived of the Christian faith, so that the whole human race is most truly under the power of Jesus Christ.
​

 

[Geremia]

No, Vatican II specifically was not infallible. It was a “pastoral” council. How can a non-dogmatic council be infallible?

Exactly. Why would its credibility take precedence over, say, the Council of Trent, which issued 17 dogmatic decrees? Vatican II issued 0.

 

[TheDoctor]

No, Vatican II specifically was not infallible. It was a “pastoral” council. How can a non-dogmatic council be infallible?

“*There are those who ask what authority, what theological qualification, the Council intended to give to its teachings, knowing that it avoided issuing solemn dogmatic definitions backed by the Church’s infallible teaching authority. The answer is known by those who remember the conciliar declaration of March 6, 1964, repeated on November 16, 1964. In view of the pastoral nature of the Council, it avoided proclaiming in an extraordinary manner any dogmas carrying the mark of infallibility.” *(General Audience, December 1, 1966, published in the L’Osservatore Romano 1/21/1966) – Pope Paul VI

Those who reject everything about the council will always say it was not “infallable” so as to justify their belief that they can ignore what she taught. I can’t see how she was not infallable. All the quote says is that the council proclaimed no new dogma’s - however it did expand and clarify what was already in place (I don’t know what the “conciliar declaration” says, so if anyone can find it and post it to a new thread so this one does not get hijacked, please do). FYI, this has been done to death - see
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=291854
catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/sedevacantists.htm

I will ageee with those on the boards that there is nothing wrong with the teachings of V2, just the way they were and were not implemented. I know they are not strictly encyclicals but they have or have not had the biggest impact on the Church in the last say 50 years?

 

[CWBetts]

Exactly. Why would its credibility take precedence over, say, the Council of Trent, which issued 17 dogmatic decrees? Vatican II issued 0.

You are clearly ignorant of the council, and have not read a single document.

 

[Geremia]

You are clearly ignorant of the council, and have not read a single document.

I am definitely ignorant of the council—understanding it has been a great struggle for me—but I have read some of its documents. They seem to be simply rehashing of previous teachings in the modern idiom, so it doesn’t make much sense to say they have equal or more credibility than Trent, or does it?

 

[CWBetts]

I am definitely ignorant of the council—understanding it has been a great struggle for me—but I have read some of its documents. They seem to be simply rehashing of previous teachings in the modern idiom, so it doesn’t make much sense to say they have equal or more credibility than Trent, or does it?

It was a representation of the Dogmas of the Church in the modern world. For example Dei Verbum (The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation) reaffirmed Trent, and also applied the significant writing that has happened in the last 400 years. If they reaffirm Trent, it makes no sense to say they have LESS credibility. Trent says that the Scriptures are inerrant. Vatican 2 says that the Scriptures are inerrant. Yet Trent is authoritative and Vatican 2 is not? Both were ecumenical councils with virtually unanimous declarations by the bishops in union with the Holy Father, yet Trent is infallible and Vatican 2 is not? The logical disconnect is not with those who support the infallibility of Vatican 2, but those who are dissenters.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Exactly. Why would its credibility take precedence over, say, the Council of Trent, which issued 17 dogmatic decrees? Vatican II issued 0.

   ??????

SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 18, 1965DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION*** DEI VERBUM***

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH LUMEN GENTIUM

 

[Geremia]

???

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON DIVINE REVELATION*** DEI VERBUM*** SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 18, 1965

DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH LUMEN GENTIUM SOLEMNLY PROMULGATED BY HIS HOLINESS POPE PAUL VI ON NOVEMBER 21, 1964

I am sorry, I should have said it issued no new dogma. How are these new dogma?

 

[CWBetts]

I am sorry, I should have said it issued no new dogma. How are these new dogma?

A Dogma does not have to be NEW for a council to be infallible. You cannot use lack of new Dogmas as an excuse to attempt to pick and choose what you do and don’t like from an ecumenical council

 

[Geremia]

It was a representation of the Dogmas of the Church in the modern world. For example Dei Verbum (The Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation) reaffirmed Trent, and also applied the significant writing that has happened in the last 400 years. If they reaffirm Trent, it makes no sense to say they have LESS credibility.

But Dei Verbum is only one of the many documents issued. What about the others? There are some that even some cardinals themselves participating in the Council didn’t think represented a “hermeneutic of continuity” with tradition, e.g., some thought Nostra Ætate contradicted previous teaching about religious freedom. Are those which are clearly not dogmatic just on equal levels of credibility with the documents which do resonate with previous councils’ dogmatic statements?

Trent says that the Scriptures are inerrant. Vatican 2 says that the Scriptures are inerrant. Yet Trent is authoritative and Vatican 2 is not? Both were ecumenical councils with virtually unanimous declarations by the bishops in union with the Holy Father, yet Trent is infallible and Vatican 2 is not? The logical disconnect is not with those who support the infallibility of Vatican 2, but those who are dissenters.

 

[CWBetts]

But Dei Verbum is only one of the many documents issued. What about the others? There are some that even some cardinals themselves participating in the Council didn’t think represented a “hermeneutic of continuity” with tradition, e.g., some thought Nostra Ætate contradicted previous teaching about religious freedom. Are those which are clearly not dogmatic just on equal levels of credibility with the documents which do resonate with previous councils’ dogmatic statements?

Any document from an ecumenical council (that is where all the bishops are in agreement and are in union with the pope) are infallible. Nostra Aetate did not contradict anything. Is a I help, I would recommend you read Vatican II: The Crisis and the Promise by Alan Schreck

 

[Geremia]

Any document from an ecumenical council (that is where all the bishops are in agreement and are in union with the pope) are infallible.

Doesn’t infallibility only apply to matters of faith and morals? I have difficultly seeing how, e.g., Nostra Aetate would fit into either of those categories, hence it seems some documents are more “ex cathedra”-like than others, i.e., that there are levels of credibility of conciliar documents, some more weighty than others, no?

Nostra Aetate did not contradict anything. Is a I help, I would recommend you read Vatican II: The Crisis and the Promise by Alan Schreck

I cannot imagine that one being better than Iota Unum by Romano Amerio.

 

[CWBetts]

I cannot imagine that one being better than Iota Unum by Romano Amerio.

I do not where Mr. Amerio’s specialty lies, but Dr. Schreck is a professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville, and teaches the graduate-level Vatican 2 class every semester. Rather than dismiss it out of hand, I would give it a look.

 

[Geremia]

I do not where Mr. Amerio’s specialty lies, but Dr. Schreck is a professor of theology at Franciscan University of Steubenville, and teaches the graduate-level Vatican 2 class every semester. Rather than dismiss it out of hand, I would give it a look.

I will, but being from Steubenville, he might have a more liberal bent. The Rhine Flows into the Tiber is good and fairly neutral regarding the council. The tome of Romano Amerio, who was a peritus for Vatican II, is very scholarly (over 600 pages or so) and offers very critical responses to every area that the council covered.

 

[CWBetts]

I will, but being from Steubenville, he might have a more liberal bent. The Rhine Flows into the Tiber is good and fairly neutral regarding the council. The tome of Romano Amerio, who was a peritus for Vatican II, is very scholarly (over 600 pages or so) and offers very critical responses to every area that the council covered.

What do you mean a “liberal bent”? There are reasons to believe that Franciscan of Steubenville is a top-notch School:

1. 
   *]The radical liberals thinf it is too orthodox
   *]The radical traditionalists think it is too liberal
   *]all theology and philosphy faculty, as well as administration and those involved with student life take the oath–publicly
   *]strong encouragement for ministry
   *]one of the largest Students for Life chapters in the nation
   *]top-notch faculty (Scott Hahn, John Bergsma, Alan Schreck, Fr. Dan Patee, TOR)
   *]CONFESSION LINES
   *]dozens of men in the pre-theolgiate program
   
   Of course, you could dismiss the school for its vibrant participation in the Charismatic Renewal, but why would one be critical of a movement endorsed by JPII and BXVI? I say give the book a chance, instead of being prejudiced against a school that deserves no ire.

 

[ProVobis]

Humanae Vitae…

If more Catholics throughout the world paid attention to it, we’d definitely be more than replacing ourselves.

Perhaps one of the reasons for this is that people heeded Paul VI’s Populorum Progressio more:

Population Growth

1. There is no denying that the accelerated rate of population growth brings many added difficulties to the problems of development where the size of the population grows more rapidly than the quantity of available resources to such a degree that things seem to have reached an impasse. In such circumstances people are inclined to apply drastic remedies to reduce the birth rate.

There is no doubt that public authorities can intervene in this matter, within the bounds of their competence. They can instruct citizens on this subject and adopt appropriate measures, so long as these are in conformity with the dictates of the moral law and the rightful freedom of married couples is preserved completely intact. When the inalienable right of marriage and of procreation is taken away, so is human dignity.

Finally, it is for parents to take a thorough look at the matter and decide upon the number of their children. This is an obligation they take upon themselves, before their children already born, and before the community to which they belong—following the dictates of their own consciences informed by God’s law authentically interpreted, and bolstered by their trust in Him. (39)

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_26031967_populorum_en.html

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Re Humanae Vitae:

…O that today you would hearken to his voice! 8 Harden not your hearts, as at Meribah, as on the day at Massah in the wilderness, 9 when your fathers tested me, and put me to the proof, though they had seen my work. 10 For forty years I loathed that generation and said, “They are a people who err in heart, and they do not regard my ways.” 11 Therefore I swore in my anger that they should not enter my rest.

Psalm 95:7-11

7* Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says, “Today, when you hear his voice, 8 do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, on the day of testing in the wilderness, 9 where your fathers put me to the test and saw my works for forty years. 10 Therefore I was provoked with that generation, and said, ‘They always go astray in their hearts; they have not known my ways.’ 11 As I swore in my wrath, ‘They shall never enter my rest.’”

Hebrews 3:7-11

Humanae Vitae was signed on July 25, 1968. We are coming up on the 42nd anniversary. Things have gone a long way downhill in that time. Father Corapi says we had a death wish when we rejected it, and fulfilled that wish in November 2008.

 

[Geremia]

What do you mean a “liberal bent”?

I mean moving away from the perennial philosophy of Thomism to philosophical pluralism.

 

[CWBetts]

I mean moving away from the perennial philosophy of Thomism to philosophical pluralism.

That is an overly long post with but one intent: to smear, insult, and mock the Venerable Pope John Paul II the Great.