Most US women would rather divorce than be a housewife

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Yeah but even when every mom in the room works, there’s bound to be someone or more to be snotty about what a particular person does for a living, over what another person does. Snotty people are snotty no matter what they do. Given the fact that we’re talking about a group of various women in a gathering, I don’t believe for a second that there isn’t one among the SAHM-only gathering as well.
There are some of us burdened with the spiritual fault of needing to compare ourselves favorably to others, that is true. I don’t know how that can be helped, but it helps not to take that fault as a reflection on anyone but the person with the fault.
 
I have PhD from a top school, and yet I decided that the best thing for our family would be if I didn’t go back to teaching immediately after our kids were born. As it turned out, I never went back, and it is unlikely that I ever will. Quite a few of my friends don’t even know I have a PhD, and yeah, there is some work involved in disconnecting self-worth from the status of “what you do.” It worked for us, but it wouldn’t work for everybody.

I would never look down on someone who felt that her work outside the home was a necessary thing for her or something that improved the life of her family outside of the money she brought in. I suspect that in the past there were some very unhappy SAHMs who didn’t have any option other than staying at home, and families that suffered as a result. Well, now couples can decide how to make things work out for their marriage and their family. I think that’s a good thing.

Don’t wind your self-respect up in what you do, though. You are just one tragedy from a totally different kind of life from what you have planned out now. God made you a human being, not a human doing, and the dignity God gave you does not increase or decrease based on some other accomplishment or station in life that you can gain or lose. Work is worth doing well, worth taking pride in, worth taking joy in, but it is not worth so much that you would lose yourself if you couldn’t do it. That is too far.
Your position is a similar position to some young religious sisters that I know. They got their PhD from prestigious universities and then they decided to join an order. A calling from God is about God and not about ourselves, if we realize that then we will be blessed. It is fine to desire some recognition for what we have done but deep down we do not deserve any recognition for what we did.
 
I have PhD from a top school, and yet I decided that the best thing for our family would be if I didn’t go back to teaching immediately after our kids were born. As it turned out, I never went back, and it is unlikely that I ever will. Quite a few of my friends don’t even know I have a PhD, and yeah, there is some work involved in disconnecting self-worth from the status of “what you do.” It worked for us, but it wouldn’t work for everybody.

I would never look down on someone who felt that her work outside the home was a necessary thing for her or something that improved the life of her family outside of the money she brought in. I suspect that in the past there were some very unhappy SAHMs who didn’t have any option other than staying at home, and families that suffered as a result. Well, now couples can decide how to make things work out for their marriage and their family. I think that’s a good thing.

Don’t wind your self-respect up in what you do, though. You are just one tragedy from a totally different kind of life from what you have planned out now. God made you a human being, not a human doing, and the dignity God gave you does not increase or decrease based on some other accomplishment or station in life that you can gain or lose. Work is worth doing well, worth taking pride in, worth taking joy in, but it is not worth so much that you would lose yourself if you couldn’t do it. That is too far.
This is very true! I think the issue is that society tells us we are only worth what we do, and this causes a lot of issues for many people who lose their jobs or do not have the ability to work.

Surprisingly, being in the younger generation and having attending to a university where the majority of degrees were in male-dominated industries, many of my female friends plan to get their degrees, work for some time, and then stay at home with their children.
 
Yeah but even when every mom in the room works, there’s bound to be someone or more to be snotty about what a particular person does for a living, over what another person does. Snotty people are snotty no matter what they do. Given the fact that we’re talking about a group of various women in a gathering, I don’t believe for a second that there isn’t one among the SAHM-only gathering as well.
This is true about human beings in general. Long time ago a read about this study showing evidence that an employee would prefer to have a salary of $90,000 when everybody else in the office is making $80,000 instead of having a salary of $100,000 when everybody else is making $110,000. The assumption was based on the same cost of living for both scenarios.
 
Articles like this demonstrate the disaster of modern feminism. Bear with me. Prior to the 1960’s it’s true that an awful lot of men took women for granted and demeaned the value of their contribution to society. The modern feminism movement contained some good in that it opened doors previously closed to women and made a mockery of attitudes in some male circles that women couldn’t cut it in the business world. But the price of that progress has been horrific. Instead of confronting the mysoginistic men who demeaned the contributions of women, the feminists JOINED the mysoginist men in demeaning the contributions of women. The word “housewife” became a derogatory slur used by men and women alike. The idea of being there for your children in their early years and after school was derided.

Not coincidentally, this is also the period when true communities died. Neighborhoods became subdivisions where people hardly know each other and nobody feels safe allowing their children to run off to the park together “unsupervised.” Networks of women that once took care of friends and families in need died out and government aid needed to be stepped up to replace it (at astronomical cost).

The price of achieving dual incomes and fancier houses has been the human communities that are the true lifeblood of civilization. Lawyers, doctors, engineers, police and plumbers may be crucial to the function of a civilization, but there will never be enough of them to replace the human connections that we’ve lost when women were conned into becoming mysoginists. The social fabric that we’ve lost that was once created by women who were not paid and not valued was priceless and we squandered it. Stupid men. Stupid feminists.

Here’s to you, Mom! Thanks for all you did in making a neighborhood for me to grow up in filled with friends, families we knew and cared about, a safe place to go out and be a boy with other boys, a home where the faith was taught and lived, and an experience of growing up happy, secure and full of wonder. May the rest of society one day learn what has been lost and find a way back to it that involves honoring and respecting who women are and whatever contributions they make (whether financial or the more important sort).
 
Articles like this demonstrate the disaster of modern feminism. Bear with me. Prior to the 1960’s it’s true that an awful lot of men took women for granted and demeaned the value of their contribution to society. The modern feminism movement contained some good in that it opened doors previously closed to women and made a mockery of attitudes in some male circles that women couldn’t cut it in the business world. But the price of that progress has been horrific. Instead of confronting the mysoginistic men who demeaned the contributions of women, the feminists JOINED the mysoginist men in demeaning the contributions of women. The word “housewife” became a derogatory slur used by men and women alike. The idea of being there for your children in their early years and after school was derided.

Not coincidentally, this is also the period when true communities died. Neighborhoods became subdivisions where people hardly know each other and nobody feels safe allowing their children to run off to the park together “unsupervised.” Networks of women that once took care of friends and families in need died out and government aid needed to be stepped up to replace it (at astronomical cost).

The price of achieving dual incomes and fancier houses has been the human communities that are the true lifeblood of civilization. Lawyers, doctors, engineers, police and plumbers may be crucial to the function of a civilization, but there will never be enough of them to replace the human connections that we’ve lost when women were conned into becoming mysoginists. The social fabric that we’ve lost that was once created by women who were not paid and not valued was priceless and we squandered it. Stupid men. Stupid feminists.

Here’s to you, Mom! Thanks for all you did in making a neighborhood for me to grow up in filled with friends, families we knew and cared about, a safe place to go out and be a boy with other boys, a home where the faith was taught and lived, and an experience of growing up happy, secure and full of wonder. May the rest of society one day learn what has been lost and find a way back to it that involves honoring and respecting who women are and whatever contributions they make (whether financial or the more important sort).
I think there is a parallel between the actual (vs. the theoretical) role of worker’s unions. The unions were needed because too many employers would oppress the workers whenever there wasn’t a union, but where the unions overcompensated (which was too often) it brought new ills into the workplace.
 
Yeah but even when every mom in the room works, there’s bound to be someone or more to be snotty about what a particular person does for a living, over what another person does. Snotty people are snotty no matter what they do. Given the fact thatwe’re talking about a group of various women in a gathering, I don’t believe for a second that there isn’t one among the SAHM-only gathering as well.
Snotty people don’t have to be snotty! They can do something about it! All moms should know the value of wiping and blowing noses.:bighanky:

Joking aside, the underlying opinion about women that I highlighted in pink saddens me. Yes, some people are unkind, but I have certainly attended gatherings of women where no one in the room was snotty.
 
Honestly, I feel like the conservative movement hasn’t always helped their own cause here. Especially in conservative Protestant circles where singleness is not valued or even acknowledged. For many of us, the alternatives were a world where being a SAHM was dismissed, and one where it was expected of every woman regardless of her own personal gifts and calling.
 
Don’t wind your self-respect up in what you do, though. You are just one tragedy from a totally different kind of life from what you have planned out now. God made you a human being, not a human doing, and the dignity God gave you does not increase or decrease based on some other accomplishment or station in life that you can gain or lose. Work is worth doing well, worth taking pride in, worth taking joy in, but it is not worth so much that you would lose yourself if you couldn’t do it. That is too far.
I wonder if a secular person can truly understand this. If we only have a few limited options that the modern society offers in terms of how we build our identity, then it is inevitable to tie it to the marxist model that values human beings in terms of their mode of production. You are what you do. People just assume this to be true when they are healthy, young and prosperous. I wonder what happens when a person falls ill, for example, and cannot fulfill the society’s expectations anymore. Or when things simply don’t go according to plan for whatever reason. How do they find self worth and meaning in life?
 
I wonder if a secular person can truly understand this. If we only have a few limited options that the modern society offers in terms of how we build our identity, then it is inevitable to tie it to the marxist model that values human beings in terms of their mode of production. You are what you do. People just assume this to be true when they are healthy, young and prosperous. I wonder what happens when a person falls ill, for example, and cannot fulfill the society’s expectations anymore. Or when things simply don’t go according to plan for whatever reason. How do they find self worth and meaning in life?
Honestly I think this is just a human problem. I’ve been watching my mother, a SAHM, go through the exact same thing. Her identity was based in her family and kids. But she doesn’t have a child at home anymore, so the job she’s built her life on is no longer there. Suddenly - no self worth, no meaning.
 
I have PhD from a top school, and yet I decided that the best thing for our family would be if I didn’t go back to teaching immediately after our kids were born. As it turned out, I never went back, and it is unlikely that I ever will. Quite a few of my friends don’t even know I have a PhD, and yeah, there is some work involved in disconnecting self-worth from the status of “what you do.” It worked for us, but it wouldn’t work for everybody.



Don’t wind your self-respect up in what you do, though. You are just one tragedy from a totally different kind of life from what you have planned out now. God made you a human being, not a human doing, and the dignity God gave you does not increase or decrease based on some other accomplishment or station in life that you can gain or lose. Work is worth doing well, worth taking pride in, worth taking joy in, but it is not worth so much that you would lose yourself if you couldn’t do it. That is too far.
What beautiful words!

We live in a world that DOES make this a difficult struggle, to disconnect our worth as women from our education, degrees, and jobs…a world that tells us staying at home is not good enough and that if we WANT to do that and are happy doing that, we’re somehow lacking in creativity, drive, and intelligence.

I also have advanced degrees–bachelor’s, master’s, and teaching certificate. And I have nine children. I was once informed by a professional that his brother has six children, but he only has three children because he’s smart and has a bachelor’s degree. I was glad at that moment to be able to smile, and simply say, “I have a master’s degree.” 🙂 It was worth it for that moment alone! 😃

However, as much as my kids laugh at and even re-tell this story, it is a powerful reflection on what the world thinks of mothering. I was also informed by the ob/gyn who delivered my twins that, “You don’t have to keep getting pregnant.” Uh, thanks, yeah, high school and college in the 80s and I couldn’t figure that one out–it could ONLY be because I’m crushed under my husband’s patriarchal heel. If only she’d asked questions, gotten to know me, and realized it was me who valued living my Catholic faith. But she made assumptions, based on the world’s views.

In the end, however, wise women know that it is raising good people, healthy children, young men and women who will go on to do good for the world and others, that is what ultimately matters, and that really is the most important job in the world.
 
Also, that men will divorce you and leave you high and dry (this can be true, thanks to no-fault divorce) so you’d better be prepared to support yourself.
This is one I struggle with. I got an education because I was raised in a family that, regardless of both parents being raised in very Catholic homes with stay at home mothers, put not only a great emphasis, but THE emphasis, on education. I think I was first told on my home from the hospital three days after birth that I *would *get excellent grades, be on the honor roll, and in the honor society, and go to college immediately after high school and graduate in four years. The expectation, of course, was also to move straight into a good job.

However, early on in my marriage, I walked from college graduation straight into being a stay at home mother because it was important. Then my husband walked out on me for nine months, leaving me with two pre-schoolers and a newborn. I have kept my foot in the job market ever since, working part-time around his hours, so that a parent is always home with the children.

The marriage was iffy after that, with him disappearing for hours on end, being critical and negative toward me, tearing me down, telling me how poorly all his family, friends, and co-workers thought of me until I was pretty deep in self-loathing; anger, yelling; threats of physical violence that kept me wary of objecting to all the things going on. Then when I was pregnant with my 9th, I discovered that even apart from all of that, he was up to all kinds of no good behind my back all those years.

I pushed for four years for marriage counseling, Retrouvaille, individual counseling. I would have gladly forgiven everything if he would have only STOPPED. I truly wanted to save the marriage, to keep my marriage vows, to give my kids a family with a father in the home.

But I was working harder and harder (ie, away from my children) to pay off bills he kept racking up with no explanation of where the money was going. I kept finding out there were more women, including my supposed best friend, with varying levels of friendship with him, that he kept very secret.

I slowly realized that he was not going to stop any of these behaviors, probably in part because he figured with nine kids and only a part time job, there wasn’t a darn thing I could do about it, anyway.

When it reached the point of the THIRD priest telling me this is no marriage and he’d petition for annulment if I filed for divorce, when I saw how my husband’s antics were putting me into such self-hatred and depression I was NOT the best possible mother for my children, when I realized I was working more and more hours anyway to keep up with his spending, and finally when I realized how bad the debt was that he was lying about and we could potentially lose the house when his house of (credit) cards collapsed…I filed.

This is my dilemma between what I want to believe and the reality I see, of too many women I know living in marriages like this. I hate the divorce rate in this country. I fully believe some of it is people living self-centered, selfish lives such that they walk out on what could have been good marriages, for selfish reasons.

But I also know way too many women just like myself, in marriages like mine, who finally refuse to tolerate the abuses any longer. I know these women in real life and online. Physical abuse, name-calling, swearing, cheating, lying, drinking, credit card debt that threatens the family, outright disrespect and unkindness that tears them down emotionally and destroys their human dignity, and much more. It is often enough these women who are saying, “Enough,” and filing. I think many marriages lasted till death in prior years because women had no choice but to accept these abuses.

I’m not divorced because of no-fault divorce or because he left me. I’m divorced because he was an unkind husband whose behavior was harming me and endangering our ability to keep a roof over our children’s heads. I wonder if the upside of women being able to support themselves will be a gradual shift in men realizing they need to treat their wives with more respect and kindness?

Just some thoughts. I don’t know all the answers or how to balance this. One of my daughters is moving on to graduate school and has plans as a research scientist. This is who she is. I don’t feel I’ve ever pushed her into it. My other daughter wants to have a large family and be home with her children, and I warn her that she needs to have a skill, an education, something, because there are no guarantees in life. Husband do leave women high and dry, or they die, or they’re injured and can no longer work. Things happen.

I hope that as a society, we’ll find some balance soon of women not having to tolerate awful behavior from husbands, and yet being respected and highly regarded for what **is **the most important job of raising and loving their children.
Men have been trained to expect women to work, AND manage the children and home, so those women who keep their careers after marriage get to try and juggle two full-time jobs while the husband and father carries on with his same job. (It is well-documented that in 2-career families, it is the wife who does the greater share of housework and child care.)
I so agree. I very much think women are being pushed to be it all and do it all, and that’s also a downside for women and families.
 
What beautiful words!

We live in a world that DOES make this a difficult struggle, to disconnect our worth as women from our education, degrees, and jobs…a world that tells us staying at home is not good enough and that if we WANT to do that and are happy doing that, we’re somehow lacking in creativity, drive, and intelligence.

I also have advanced degrees–bachelor’s, master’s, and teaching certificate. And I have nine children. I was once informed by a professional that his brother has six children, but he only has three children because he’s smart and has a bachelor’s degree. I was glad at that moment to be able to smile, and simply say, “I have a master’s degree.” 🙂 It was worth it for that moment alone! 😃

However, as much as my kids laugh at and even re-tell this story, it is a powerful reflection on what the world thinks of mothering. I was also informed by the ob/gyn who delivered my twins that, “You don’t have to keep getting pregnant.” Uh, thanks, yeah, high school and college in the 80s and I couldn’t figure that one out–it could ONLY be because I’m crushed under my husband’s patriarchal heel. If only she’d asked questions, gotten to know me, and realized it was me who valued living my Catholic faith. But she made assumptions, based on the world’s views.

In the end, however, wise women know that it is raising good people, healthy children, young men and women who will go on to do good for the world and others, that is what ultimately matters, and that really is the most important job in the world.
We only have two children, but one of my favorite memories as a mother is this one: My two boys and I were driving across town and stopped at a crosswalk for someone to cross a busy street. It was a woman pushing a stroller, with three other little children in tow. None was old enough to be in kindergarten. One of my kids, sitting in the back, looked at this scene and said: “What a lucky mom!” Then I knew I’d done something right!
 
What I see too often in all sorts of right-wing circles (I’m not American, so the whole SAHM thing doesn’t even really apply to me - very few families in my part of the world would even be privileged enough to consider having an unemployed adult member on purpose) is admonishing the woman not to fall prey to the pride and vanity of having a successful career. However, men are seldom admonished in a similar vein, and women are seldom admonished not to fall prey to the pride and vanity of being the perfect, most wonderful, most accomplished mother and homemaker.

It feels hypocritical. As if following the gender roles a society prescribes is more important than following God.

I’m not saying this happened in this thread - quite the opposite, really. I appreciate that.

I guess I’m interested in establishing that we are all human and susceptible to similar problems, regardless of our gender, and we should all strive to remedy them.
 
We only have two children, but one of my favorite memories as a mother is this one: My two boys and I were driving across town and stopped at a crosswalk for someone to cross a busy street. It was a woman pushing a stroller, with three other little children in tow. None was old enough to be in kindergarten. One of my kids, sitting in the back, looked at this scene and said: “What a lucky mom!” Then I knew I’d done something right!
Either you have posted this before or someone else has posted a similar experience, but it made me smile again when I read it.

I tell my kids all the time, “I’m a lucky mommy!” and tell them I’m so glad things went according to God’s plan, that I’m so fortunate in that, so glad they’re here.

At one time, all my children wanted large families when they grew up. I don’t know how they feel now. But I do worry that my younger daughter has her heart set on it, knowing as I do plenty of families who live the Catholic life and simply never get pregnant. Sort of a tangent, I guess, but it’s about embracing and loving what God gives us, and seeing the doors He opens–different doors depending on our situation, but always a door He’s offering us to do good in the world and draw closer to Him.
 
I never understood women’s desire to WANT to work. Am I crazy that if I could I would never want to work? I would have thought that all people have this desire, yet women these days say that they WANT to work. I work because I have to, not because I want to.
 
I never understood women’s desire to WANT to work. Am I crazy that if I could I would never want to work? I would have thought that all people have this desire, yet women these days say that they WANT to work. I work because I have to, not because I want to.
I suppose this is a first-world, upper-class “problem.” Women who truly have the choice of working vs. not working usually have the privilege of relative wealth, a good education, and the possibility of a career that offers them intellectual challenges and acknowledgment of success.

Women who work in factories, fast food joints, and the like, don’t usually have this “problem.” They usually have to work to survive.
 
Honestly, I think this problem started with men more than women. I think we often fail to acknowledge and reward fathers. I have a friend who is a stay-at-home-father…it’s much worse for him, I’ve found, than for many of the women. With their family circumstances it was definitely the best choice. But guess how many people can’t look past the fact that he’s “not working”? Or even for fathers like my own, how many people looked down on him for turning down career advantages in exchange for more time at home? With these attitudes from and towards men, I’m not sure you can blame women for the problem.

Simply put, society needs to get it through their collective heads that families are work. Children are work. Children take time and commitment - a parent of either sex cannot simply decide to set aside their duties towards their family for career advancement.
 
This is one I struggle with. I got an education because I was raised in a family that, regardless of both parents being raised in very Catholic homes with stay at home mothers, put not only a great emphasis, but THE emphasis, on education. I think I was first told on my home from the hospital three days after birth that I *would *get excellent grades, be on the honor roll, and in the honor society, and go to college immediately after high school and graduate in four years. The expectation, of course, was also to move straight into a good job.

However, early on in my marriage, I walked from college graduation straight into being a stay at home mother because it was important. Then my husband walked out on me for nine months, leaving me with two pre-schoolers and a newborn. I have kept my foot in the job market ever since, working part-time around his hours, so that a parent is always home with the children.

The marriage was iffy after that, with him disappearing for hours on end, being critical and negative toward me, tearing me down, telling me how poorly all his family, friends, and co-workers thought of me until I was pretty deep in self-loathing; anger, yelling; threats of physical violence that kept me wary of objecting to all the things going on. Then when I was pregnant with my 9th, I discovered that even apart from all of that, he was up to all kinds of no good behind my back all those years.

I pushed for four years for marriage counseling, Retrouvaille, individual counseling. I would have gladly forgiven everything if he would have only STOPPED. I truly wanted to save the marriage, to keep my marriage vows, to give my kids a family with a father in the home.

But I was working harder and harder (ie, away from my children) to pay off bills he kept racking up with no explanation of where the money was going. I kept finding out there were more women, including my supposed best friend, with varying levels of friendship with him, that he kept very secret.

I slowly realized that he was not going to stop any of these behaviors, probably in part because he figured with nine kids and only a part time job, there wasn’t a darn thing I could do about it, anyway.

When it reached the point of the THIRD priest telling me this is no marriage and he’d petition for annulment if I filed for divorce, when I saw how my husband’s antics were putting me into such self-hatred and depression I was NOT the best possible mother for my children, when I realized I was working more and more hours anyway to keep up with his spending, and finally when I realized how bad the debt was that he was lying about and we could potentially lose the house when his house of (credit) cards collapsed…I filed.

This is my dilemma between what I want to believe and the reality I see, of too many women I know living in marriages like this. I hate the divorce rate in this country. I fully believe some of it is people living self-centered, selfish lives such that they walk out on what could have been good marriages, for selfish reasons.

But I also know way too many women just like myself, in marriages like mine, who finally refuse to tolerate the abuses any longer. I know these women in real life and online. Physical abuse, name-calling, swearing, cheating, lying, drinking, credit card debt that threatens the family, outright disrespect and unkindness that tears them down emotionally and destroys their human dignity, and much more. It is often enough these women who are saying, “Enough,” and filing. I think many marriages lasted till death in prior years because women had no choice but to accept these abuses.

I’m not divorced because of no-fault divorce or because he left me. I’m divorced because he was an unkind husband whose behavior was harming me and endangering our ability to keep a roof over our children’s heads. I wonder if the upside of women being able to support themselves will be a gradual shift in men realizing they need to treat their wives with more respect and kindness?

Just some thoughts. I don’t know all the answers or how to balance this. One of my daughters is moving on to graduate school and has plans as a research scientist. This is who she is. I don’t feel I’ve ever pushed her into it. My other daughter wants to have a large family and be home with her children, and I warn her that she needs to have a skill, an education, something, because there are no guarantees in life. Husband do leave women high and dry, or they die, or they’re injured and can no longer work. Things happen.

I hope that as a society, we’ll find some balance soon of women not having to tolerate awful behavior from husbands, and yet being respected and highly regarded for what **is **the most important job of raising and loving their children.

I so agree. I very much think women are being pushed to be it all and do it all, and that’s also a downside for women and families.
You make a very important point, that is this: Choosing to be divorced and raising your children alone instead of being a SAHM is entirely different from being prepared to be divorced and raising your children alone instead of being a SAHM.

We have to be prepared to do what is needed, and not get too attached to what we imagine is the ideal. Very few of the heroes from Scriptures or from among the Church Triumphant were given an unbroken route to the ideal. The ideal, then, is to be prepared to do what God asks of us, what love asks of us. Getting it in your head that some imaginary ideal is always the will of God for all people at all times will get you into a lot of trouble. We must have a much more grown-up understanding of love and obedience than that.
 
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