Mother Mary

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Roblox84

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I have a friend that was on a missions trip in Chile South America. When they came back they told me that they have a huge statue of Mary in the center of town and people come from all over to kneel beside it and pray to it. I know that we should honor Mary, but does any other Catholic think that sometimes some may take it too far? I’m not one that pray’s to Mary or any saints, but I can understand when someone say’s the rosary or say’s a prayer to a saint in time of need. Even a short prayer to Mary, just not everday or five times a day. And ther are many that buy statues of only Mary for the house and there is no Christ anywhere in their home. Wouldn’t most people want to put Christ before anything else?. It just seems like things like this bring a bad name to a lot of Catholics. I would like to hear peoples opinion on this.
 
Roblox84 said:
I have a friend that was on a missions trip in Chile South America. When they came back they told me that they have a huge statue of Mary in the center of town and people come from all over to kneel beside it and pray to it. I know that we should honor Mary, but does any other Catholic think that sometimes some may take it too far? I’m not one that pray’s to Mary or any saints, but I can understand when someone say’s the rosary or say’s a prayer to a saint in time of need. Even a short prayer to Mary, just not everday or five times a day. And ther are many that buy statues of only Mary for the house and there is no Christ anywhere in their home. Wouldn’t most people want to put Christ before anything else?. It just seems like things like this bring a bad name to a lot of Catholics. I would like to hear peoples opinion on this.
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Yes, honour given to Mary and the saints can definitely go to excess. Anything can. They should never assume a position greater than God or be given equal worship as is given to God.
But you seem a bit too touchy about this, I think. Mary certainly deserves great honour, moreso than any other saints, but again, not equal to God. I certainly say multiple Hail Marys throughout the day - and multiple Our Fathers, as well. I regularly invoke the saints - it is part of our Catholic Tradition, and is something Protestants cannot claim to have. It is such a rich element to our faith and spiritual life, they have no idea how greatly they suffer from not having it.
Of course, there is no obligation to do any of this. Do what you are comfortable with and what gives you the most spiritual benefits. But don’t look down on other Catholics for their spiritual exercises, unless they really, really seem wrong and out of place (I.E. I have heard of people calling Mary ‘goddess’ :eek:). That being said, I would encourage you to try to take up a bit more devotion to the Blessed Mother and God’s saints. I think you will find the spiritual benefits great indeed, and as I mentioned above, it is one of the richest and most unique parts of our Catholic faith. It just should never overtake the place of Jesus - ever.
 
Wait, they specifically pray TO the statue? How do you know?
 
adstrinity said:
Wait, they specifically pray TO the statue? How do you know?
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To pray before the statue isn’t automatically bad - no different than be praying before a Bible, for instance, or if I pray in a church it doesn’t mean I am praying TO the crucifix that is in front of me. However, to pray directly to a statue, to the statue itself, would be a very grave sin, idolatry, and in direct contradiction of the teachings of the Church.
 
Hail Mary, Full of Grace, the Lord is with thee,
Blesses are thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.

This was the greeting which the Angel Gabriel gave to Mother Mary

Holy Mary, Mother of God, PRAY FOR US SINNERS, NOW AND AT THE HOUR OF OUR DEATH, AMEN.

So you see that prayer is for Mother Mary, only asking for her help to pray for us all the time, so that we dont falter in this life, or even if we falter, her prayers guide to us to the Heavenly Paradise.
 
*"There has been no other name given under Heaven, except the name of Jesus, by who we can be saved. God has laid no other foundation of our salvation, our perfection or our glory, than Jesus Christ. Every building which is not built on that firm rock is founded upon the moving sand, and sooner or latter infallibly will fall. Every one of the faithful who is not united to Him, as a branch to the stock of the vine, shall fall, shall wither, and shall be fit only to be cast into the fire. Outside of Him there exists nothing but error, falsehood, iniquity, futiltiy, death and damnation. But if we are in Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ is in us, we have no condemnation to fear. Neither the angels of Heaven not the men of earth nor the devils of Hell nor any other creature can injure us; because they cannot separate us from the love of God, which is in Jesus Christ. By Jesus Christ, in Jesus Christ, we can do all things; we can render all honor and glory to the Father in the unity of the Holy Ghost; we can become perfect ourselves, and be to our neighbor a good odor of eternal life. (2Cor. 2:15-16)

If, then, we establish solid devotion to our Blessed Lady, it is only to establish more perfectly devotion to Jesus Christ, and to provide an easy and secure means for finding Jesus Christ. If devotion to Our Lady removed us from Jesus Christ, we should have to reject it as an illusion of the devil; but so far from this being the case, devotion to Our Lady is, on the contrary, necessary for us - as I have already shown, and will show still further hereafter - as a means of finding Jesus Christ perfectly, of loving Him tenderly, of serving Him faithfully. "*
  • St Louis de Montfort
 
Roblox84 said:
I have a friend that was on a missions trip in Chile South America. When they came back they told me that they have a huge statue of Mary in the center of town and people come from all over to kneel beside it and pray to it. I know that we should honor Mary, but does any other Catholic think that sometimes some may take it too far? I’m not one that pray’s to Mary or any saints, but I can understand when someone say’s the rosary or say’s a prayer to a saint in time of need. Even a short prayer to Mary, just not everday or five times a day. And ther are many that buy statues of only Mary for the house and there is no Christ anywhere in their home. Wouldn’t most people want to put Christ before anything else?. It just seems like things like this bring a bad name to a lot of Catholics. I would like to hear peoples opinion on this.
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Look at the statements made regarding Mary and some of the prayers to Mary compiled by earlier popes in the Roman Catholic church. Now look at the doctrine and theology of the RCc regarding Mary. Look at what the CCc says regarding Mary and the titles conferred upon her by the RCc. Lastly, look at what one must adhere to and confess regarding Mary before being able to be Roman Catholic. When we look at all of these things and consider them while seeing for ourselves how many Catholics revere Mary in their actions and their words, one must be in complete and utter denial to say that there isn’t much much more than high honor going on in the Catholic church for Mary.
 
Proallen said:
Look at the statements made regarding Mary and some of the prayers to Mary compiled by earlier popes in the Roman Catholic church. Now look at the doctrine and theology of the RCc regarding Mary. Look at what the CCc says regarding Mary and the titles conferred upon her by the RCc. Lastly, look at what one must adhere to and confess regarding Mary before being able to be Roman Catholic. When we look at all of these things and consider them while seeing for ourselves how many Catholics revere Mary in their actions and their words, one must be in complete and utter denial to say that there isn’t much much more than high honor going on in the Catholic church for Mary.
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I don’t know what you mean by this? In any creeds, they don’t say anything more than that Jesus was born of the virgin mary. The creed is the base of catholic teaching. Nowhere in the baptismal, or confirmational, promises, or in any other sacramental oaths, does it mention anything about mary, other than that she was the virgin mother of god.
My mother has run the RCIA ( adult conversion class for catholicism ) and I have looked at her ‘manual’ Aside from the hail mary prayer ( biblical ) and the fact that she is Jesus virgin Mom, it doesn’t make any such requirements, as you imply. Please provide a link or example. Otherwise please desist from making baseless charges out of ignorance.
 
traillius said:
I don’t know what you mean by this? In any creeds, they don’t say anything more than that Jesus was born of the virgin mary. The creed is the base of catholic teaching. Nowhere in the baptismal, or confirmational, promises, or in any other sacramental oaths, does it mention anything about mary, other than that she was the virgin mother of god.
My mother has run the RCIA ( adult conversion class for catholicism ) and I have looked at her ‘manual’ Aside from the hail mary prayer ( biblical ) and the fact that she is Jesus virgin Mom, it doesn’t make any such requirements, as you imply. Please provide a link or example. Otherwise please desist from making baseless charges out of ignorance.
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What does the Catechism say regarding Mary? Isn’t that a required adherance to be Catholic?
 
You have to believe in the Assumption of Mary and her Immaculate Conception to be Catholic…not to interupt too much
 
BrianH said:
You have to believe in the Assumption of Mary and her Immaculate Conception to be Catholic…not to interupt too much
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Exactly. You also have to believe in every single title inferred upon Mary by the RCc. Co-mediatrix, co-redeptrix etc.
 
Proallen said:
Exactly. You also have to believe in every single title inferred upon Mary by the RCc. Co-mediatrix, co-redeptrix etc.
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Sorry, but you just made a really big leap there.

Believing that she is the “Immaculate Conception”, and believing that she was assumed into heaven, in no way indicates that anyone is required “to believe in every single title inferred upon Mary.”

Like Trallius’ mother, I have run the RCIA program in our parish (15 years), and I can guarantee you that The Assumption of Mary, and her Immaculate Conception are the only things that are taught, and required to believe.

You realize that by “Immaculate Conception”, we are referring to her as being the only person on Earth that was “conceived” in the normal human manner, but was not born with Original sin.
 
Proallen said:
Originally Posted by twopekinguys
Sorry, but you just made a really big leap there.

Quote:
Believing that she is the “Immaculate Conception”, and believing that she was assumed into heaven, in no way indicates that anyone is required “to believe in every single title inferred upon Mary.”

???
I am not sure what may be confusing you here. This was a direct response to your
statement that Catholics are “required” to believe in every title of Mary.
Quote:
Like Trallius’ mother, I have run the RCIA program in our parish (15 years), and I can guarantee you that The Assumption of Mary, and her Immaculate Conception are the only things that are taught, and required to believe.

Really. So then I could proclaim outwardly that Jesus Christ and not Mary is the purest realization of the faith?

I’m only guessing what you’re going for here, because I’m afraid your question doesn’t make alot of sense. But Jesus being both divine and human is the realization of the faith. Mary is the purest human representation of the faithful.
Quote:
You realize that by “Immaculate Conception”, we are referring to her as being the only person on Earth that was “conceived” in the normal human manner, but was not born with Original sin.

I know what the IC is.
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twopekinguys:
So then, I would be permitted as a Catholic to clearly refute language in the Catechism without reproach. That was the point and I already know the answer to the question. You are wrong about being only required to adhere to some of the Marian dogmas and not every one of them.
 
Proallen said:
I know what the IC is.
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Pro, you’re new here. Sometimes you do have to remind some of the posters that you do know because they may think just because you don’t agree means you don’t understand. It’s common around here for some reason. 🤷
 
Proallen said:
So then, I would be permitted as a Catholic to clearly refute language in the Catechism without reproach. That was the point and I already know the answer to the question. You are wrong about being only required to adhere to some of the Marian dogmas and not every one of them.
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What is it you’re wanting to refute? That is a rather ambiguous statement at best.

It is obvious you have your mind made up on this issue, and are unwilling to listen to reason, or explaination, but maybe you should try checking out these links:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=103374

and

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=238276

and

campus.udayton.edu/mary/mariandogmas.html

As you will see, none of these indicate that we are “required” to believe in all of the titles as you indicated.
 
What the Cathechism of the Catholic Church says about Devotion to the Blessed Virgin;

*971
“All generations will call me blessed”: "The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . **This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.”*The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.
 
Proallen said:
So then, I would be permitted as a Catholic to clearly refute language in the Catechism without reproach. That was the point and I already know the answer to the question. You are wrong about being only required to adhere to some of the Marian dogmas and not every one of them.
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Please list the “Marian Dogmas”. I am talking about actual real dogma, not rumor or false information. Dogma is proclaimed publicly by the Church in her councils and by her popes.

If you go any further than what has been stated here, IC, VB, Assumption you tell untruths. The CCC tells us many things the Church believes, none of it is on the Catholic test to become a full fledged member of His Church, NONE. Do you know why? There is no test!!!

Many Catholics do not believe all that is written in the catechism, are they thrown out? No, all of us or on a journey of faith. Many of the teachings I once thought unimportant and not true, but now have come to realize to be truth. It’s a walk towards this salvation that Christ offers each and every one of us. As we grow we understand more and more of these teachings make sense. However if my mind and heart stay fixed on the world, i do not grow in faith. The grace that Christ offers me daily is not accepted, He will still offer it but I refuse to accept it.

The IC and the Assumption are official teaching and dogma of the Church, but not required to begin your journey.

To get back to the original topic, yes some Catholics do go too far with these devotions, but not by the leadership of the Church. These abuses are found in the clergy and the laity. Kneeling before a statue of Mary to pray for intersession of the Blessed Virgin to Jesus on my behalf is not wrong. It can be elevated to idolatry by some by forgetting the purpose for praying to Mary, to become closer to Christ.

The titles mentioned above, co-redemtris and co-midiatrix are not official Church teachings, and may never be. Although there are many in the Church that would like to see these titles become official.
 
GeorgeSword said:
To pray before the statue isn’t automatically bad - no different than be praying before a Bible, for instance, or if I pray in a church it doesn’t mean I am praying TO the crucifix that is in front of me. However, to pray directly to a statue, to the statue itself, would be a very grave sin, idolatry, and in direct contradiction of the teachings of the Church.
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I have a picture of my Mother and Fater in my bed roam and I say a pray each night to them,because the bible say it is OK,God is not the God of the dead but a God on the living MK 12;26-27
 
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