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CPA2
Guest
Why is so difficult to understand the role of Mary? She is leading us to her Son, Jesus Christ. Saint Thomas Aquinas wrote in Summa “…In all ages, men have been divinely instructed in matter expedient for the salvation of the elect…and in all ages there have been persons possessed of the spirit of prophecy, not for the purpose of announcing new doctrines, but to direct human actions.” I think that Thomas Aquinas is telling us that private prophecy has an important function. Most people need encouragement as an aid to their salvation. Private revelation is a result of divine Providence; however, no one is required to accept private revelation.
God wants to teach us that when He sends Mary as His messenger, He is not sending any ordinary person in His plan for our salvation. God the Father wants us to know that Mary is important. This is apparently a concept that we have trouble understanding and accepting. I guess that is why God keeps sending Mary to us again and again. This is especially true of the last one hundred and fifty two years, starting with Lourdes, France in 1858. Our love and devotion to our Blessed Mother is at a very low level. Perhaps that is why the apparitions at Medjugore, Yugoslavia are going on for so long.
Consecration to Mary is nothing new. It was popularized by Saint Louis de Montforort around the late 1600s and early 1700s in his classic, “A Treatise on the True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin.” All of our last five popes have consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. “Totus tuus Maria” - totally yours Mary, or I am all yours Mary was the motto of our last pope, John Paul II.
Mary delights in her role as our spiritual mother. This role was given to Mary by Jesus at the foot of the cross. Do you remember when Jesus said, son behold your mother; mother, behold your son? Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John as his mother; Jesus was giving Mary to the whole world as its spiritual mother.
It is no coincidence that Mary went to visit Elizabeth in the hill country of Judea. David rested there with the Arc of the Covenant for forty days. Mary, the new Arc of the Covenant (she was pregnant with Jesus), stayed with Elizabeth for forty days. Do you remember what Mary said to Elizabeth? She said that henceforth ALL NATIONS SHALL CALL HER BLESSED.
God wants to teach us that when He sends Mary as His messenger, He is not sending any ordinary person in His plan for our salvation. God the Father wants us to know that Mary is important. This is apparently a concept that we have trouble understanding and accepting. I guess that is why God keeps sending Mary to us again and again. This is especially true of the last one hundred and fifty two years, starting with Lourdes, France in 1858. Our love and devotion to our Blessed Mother is at a very low level. Perhaps that is why the apparitions at Medjugore, Yugoslavia are going on for so long.
Consecration to Mary is nothing new. It was popularized by Saint Louis de Montforort around the late 1600s and early 1700s in his classic, “A Treatise on the True Devotion to the Blessed Virgin.” All of our last five popes have consecrated the world to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. “Totus tuus Maria” - totally yours Mary, or I am all yours Mary was the motto of our last pope, John Paul II.
Mary delights in her role as our spiritual mother. This role was given to Mary by Jesus at the foot of the cross. Do you remember when Jesus said, son behold your mother; mother, behold your son? Jesus wasn’t just giving Mary to John as his mother; Jesus was giving Mary to the whole world as its spiritual mother.
It is no coincidence that Mary went to visit Elizabeth in the hill country of Judea. David rested there with the Arc of the Covenant for forty days. Mary, the new Arc of the Covenant (she was pregnant with Jesus), stayed with Elizabeth for forty days. Do you remember what Mary said to Elizabeth? She said that henceforth ALL NATIONS SHALL CALL HER BLESSED.
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Proallen
Guest
How and why is it all about Mary?? There is so many writings and so much mind twisting and wrenching about how to incorporate Mary more and more into diety when it all comes down to Jesus. Go to Christ!!! The Redeemer. Where does it say that we need Mary to get to Jesus. This is twisted and perverted logic. Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life and NO ONE goes onto to the Father except through me. He said I am the bread of life. Stop spinning your wheels. Get onto Christ.
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traillius
Guest
Based on this, I guess you cannot ask anyone on earth to pray for you, because that would be a failure on your part to pray to God yourself. Neither you nor I can have it both ways. Either we can ask mary to pray for us, or you can’t ask any human to pray for you.
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twopekinguys
Guest
There is a big difference between what the Church believes and teaches as opposed to what you think the Church teaches and believes.
Several posters have given you information, along with references so you can see the truth. It is your choice to remain blind, and not see the truth.
Try reading some of the information given to you with an open mind.
Coming in here with your misguided pronouncements, and not at least reviewing the information given will get you nowhere.
No one is saying that Jesus isn’t The Way, The Truth, and The Life. Catholics totally believe that. We also believe and understand that Jesus understood and respected what Mary did, and even he honored her for that. Becoming pregant with a baby (Lord and Savior or not), and not being married in that day and age was a HUGE deal, but she did it anyway.
The wedding at Cana was his first miracle, and it was at the request of his mother. He listened to her, and granted her request.
If he honored her with a granting her request, why shouldn’t we honor her for everything she did?
When I was growing up, especially in my teenage years, I would often ask my mother to go to my father with a request. (usually borrowing his car). My father rarely, if ever refused a request of my mother. The same principal applies here.
It really isn’t a difficult concept to understand.
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cruisin
Guest
As a father myself and the head of the house, I find this approach inapropriate, disrespectful and manipulative to my God given position as head of the house
If you want the boss to give you a raise at work, I suppose you go ask his/her secretary, as well?
If you read the whole account of the wedding at Cana, Mary was repremanded from Him as well. I bet she never did that again.
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traillius
Guest
Bosses, in general aren’t married to their secretaries, unless the business is a home based partnership. And this sound chauvinistic ( sp?) to me. Husband and Wife are supposed to be one, and equal. I try to listen to my wife alot. Unless the request is about something that only the father can control or make happen, there is nothing wrong with asking the mother for something. Wives can speak for husbands, as well as the other way around. SInce Jesus is God, and Mary is not, He is allowed to reprimand her. This in no way dimishes the honor due to her.
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GeorgeSword
Guest
The Catholic Church has never declared Mary, officially, to be either of those. Though they may be believed, and I believe they have been believed by certain Popes, they are not in any matter required dogma at the time.
But what they mean is different than what I suspect you think they mean.
You say you know of no other Christians who give such honour to Mary. What of the Orthodox?
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twopekinguys
Guest
Apples and oranges I am afraid. There is a big difference between the relationships of a parent and child, and employer/employee.
Keep in mind that we “ask” Mary to pray for us. Just because she is asking doesn’t mean it’s a slam dunk. If you will reread my example, my father did say no on occasion. Rarely, but he did.
Whether or not he reprimanded her or not is irrelevant. He did grant her request. Don’t you think that it was well within his power to refuse?
As for your boss and secretary reference. If your boss has a secretary(not all do), then yes in some way, you do have to go through her to get to him. We don’t have to go through Mary, we merely ask her to pray with us.
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Vile_Servant
Guest
The wedding couple at Cana no doubt were completely thankful that Mary interceded to Jesus on their behalf and saved their blushes on their big day. Note that Mary did not command Jesus to work a miracle, she simply told Him that they had no wine, trusting fully in God’s divine providence to find a solution to the problem. Jesus, touched by Mary’s love for others, worked the miracle. We of little faith and love, have much to learn from Mary’s example.
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Vile_Servant
Guest
Mary points the surest way to get to Jesus.
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Proallen
Guest
Wait a sec. This isn’t about intercessory prayer. This is about praying to Mary in hopes that your petitions to Christ will have a greater likelihood of being heard and answered. I believe in intercessory prayer. I do not believe that Mary is the only way to Jesus.
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Proallen
Guest
I asked you a question in which you are conveniently not answering.
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Proallen
Guest
Scripture doesn’t tell us that. However, it does tell us that Jesus is the only way to the Father and that under no other name are we saved. Mary’s great, but I don’t see her anywhere in this realm.
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Proallen
Guest
But the point here is that NO other Christian church contains those two statements. You can’t have it both ways here.
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traillius
Guest
Yes and No. However Jesus is fully human as well as being God. Who are you most likely to listen to. If not married, then likely your mother. Mary asks on our behalf, what we would like from Jesus. He most probably listens to her. She is still his Mother, and He is still bound to honor her.
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Roblox84
Guest
That’s the same question I asked my friend, but I did just assume since they were coming from all over to see the statue, then they must have been praying to Mary. I don’t have any problems with this as it may seem, because a few years ago me and my family as well traveled to see the “Black Madonna of Czestochowa” (google it if you want to know what it is) while I was living in Poland. So i’ve grown up knowing that Mary play’s an important part, and praying the rosary daily, but I guess I just haven’t invoked that habit.
Another thing I wanted to ask, yesterday while bored at work I picked up a book titled “What the bible really teaches”. I was skimming through the book when I came upon an interpretation on a certain passage of the bible that had something to do with not using pictures or icons while praying. Has anyone ever heard of this? I don’t know how they came to think this, but doesn’t the bible teach that using icons or pictures is fine? And aren’t there documents from the earliest churches that show us that icons and relics where being used back then?
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Lapey
Guest
We have agreement…let’s celebrate. Catholics do not believe the only way to Jesus is through Mary either.
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GeorgeSword
Guest
Correction: The Catholic Church doesn’t give those statements, either. They are permissible to hold, but they certainly aren’t required. Who ever, ever said that Mary was the only way to Christ, by the way? That would be heretical.
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Lapey
Guest
The Catholic Church hasn’t made these statements either; you must understand that a group of people in the church saying something is different than the Church officially proclaiming this.
These two statements are NOT dogma. They are not teachings of the Church.
If you were to research what the terms mean you would see that the Church even if these two terms would become dogma, which is unlikely, the meaning of Mary’s role in salvation history would be exactly the same in the eyes of the Church. She is what she is, the Virgin Mother of Jesus Christ my Lord and Savoir.
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