Mother Mary

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asmrbd said:
What Mary did was very special, in all of history. She was a virgin because her conception was by the Holy Spirit, showing she was not with man. So she is blessed among women to bring our Saviour.

She referred to her Saviour in Luke 1:47. Then she praises the Son. All honor and glory to the Son, because he gave all for our salvation. 100%. Note there is one mediator…
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Use him freely.
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Cathoics would agree with you here.
asmrbd said:
We can go straight to God and Jesus freely, no one has to “pursuade” God and influence him. God is perfect and already knows our thoughts. Consider that Satan is not om(name removed by moderator)resent, therefore Mary probably can’t handle all the prayers she receives.
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Catholics would agree with this, but we also believe that Mary, and any other Saint, can and do hear our prayers, and intercede for us to the Father. While it is not required to pray to Mary, or any other Saint, it sure doesn’t hurt having others pray for you. Especially those already in heaven.
asmrbd said:
BTW, Jesus was born of flesh, and being God, he is already perfect and he does not need a sinless mother to deliver him. To think such infers that God could be tainted. I think not. The Holy Spirit testifies to us of Jesus. The angel said you “shall” conceive, so her acknowledgement was a given.
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Jesus was fully man, and fully God. If anyone who is in heaven has been cleansed and is pure, then why wouldn’t the mother of the earthly Christ be the same way? Why would God choose a sinful, impure vessel to carry the Christ?
asmrbd said:
There is only one sinless, and he is God. For a human to be sinless makes them equal with God. For ALL have sinned and there is none righteous, no NOT ONE.
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Mary was/is the Immaculate Conception. She was the only human to be conceived by normal human means to be born without original sin.
asmrbd said:
It all about Jesus and his blood that bought us. Oh the precious blood of the Lamb. With him you need no other or thing. These comments will help you understand the protestant beliefs. As the song goes, all I have is Jesus, all I need is Jesus.
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We agree that it is all about Jesus and his sacrifice. Hopefully, my comments will help you understand the Catholic truth.
 
Proallen said:
You show by what you do far more than what you say.🙂
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I understood that now I myself needed rescue.
Despair swept me away, and I wanted to weep. having recovered myself and feeling, looked up; I can began to ask about everything which I did not understand and which filled me with fear.since I could not trust myself longer,
I had read all the posts here, the warnings of you. So one is not allowed knelt before Christ or Holy Mother statues and pray. and this is IDOLOTRY? and that even if one is in fact worship our Father in Heaven in spirit but not statue ?

-I had dropped on my knees before the statue of Christ and Holy Mother say our Lord’s prayer worship our Father in Heaven, and asked Mother, mother! to help and pray for me many times in church before.
And this is wrong? Oh! my Father in heaven forgive my sins, I felt unworthy and …

May God bless brothers and sisters in Christ, It is not permitted me to pray in front of Holy ones statues; therefore I shall only worship God with all my heart and soul in spirit.
 
Vile_Servant said:
Assuming that Proallen is correct, that he saw people crawling on their hands and knees while praying, that is a sign of penance and humility, which God will not despise.

(2 Chronicles 33:19)
His prayer also, and his being heard and all his sins, and contempt, and places wherein he built high places, and set up groves, and statues before he did penance, are written in the words of Hozai.

(Psalms 102:17)
He hath had regard to the prayer of the humble: and he hath not despised their petition.
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I would agree, but his assertion was that he saw people crawling and dragging their rosaries. How many people have you ever seen drag their rosaries on the floor? Blessed or not.
 
Proallen,

You said you were once a devout Catholic. This would mean that you would have prayed the Rosary, as well as prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary (e.g. “Hail Holy Queen”) as well as to the Saints (e.g. “Litany of the Saints”).

During all this time when you were a devout Catholic and praying to God as well as Mary and the Saints, did you at any time feel that you were worshipping other gods than the Holy Trinity?
 
twopekinguys said:
I have seen people kiss the feet of a sacred heart statue as a sign of reverance. (In a hispanic community), and I have seen people kiss the cruicifix as a sign of veneration at Good Friday, and I have seen people cry while praying. Usually that has been related to a serious event that happened, such as a death of a loved one.

Nonoe of what you are describing can automatically be called worship.

So, if someone in your church just lost a loved one, and was crying while holding a picture of that person, that would be considered idolatry and be asked to leave?

It would be the same thing that you saw in the Catholic church except the person would be holding a picture instead of a statue.
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None of what you said here was happening. It was pure idolotry.
 
Vile_Servant said:
Proallen,

You said you were once a devout Catholic. This would mean that you would have prayed the Rosary, as well as prayers to the Blessed Virgin Mary (e.g. “Hail Holy Queen”) as well as to the Saints (e.g. “Litany of the Saints”).

During all this time when you were a devout Catholic and praying to God as well as Mary and the Saints, did you at any time feel that you were worshipping other gods than the Holy Trinity?
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Absolutely not. I was asking Mary and all of the saints in Heaven to pray with me. There is nothing wrong with that.
 
asmrbd said:
What Mary did was very special, in all of history. She was a virgin because her conception was by the Holy Spirit, showing she was not with man. So she is blessed among women to bring our Saviour.

She referred to her Saviour in Luke 1:47. Then she praises the Son. All honor and glory to the Son, because he gave all for our salvation. 100%. Note there is one mediator…
1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Use him freely.

We can go straight to God and Jesus freely, no one has to “pursuade” God and influence him. God is perfect and already knows our thoughts. Consider that Satan is not om(name removed by moderator)resent, therefore Mary probably can’t handle all the prayers she receives.

BTW, Jesus was born of flesh, and being God, he is already perfect and he does not need a sinless mother to deliver him. To think such infers that God could be tainted. I think not. The Holy Spirit testifies to us of Jesus. The angel said you “shall” conceive, so her acknowledgement was a given.

There is only one sinless, and he is God. For a human to be sinless makes them equal with God. For ALL have sinned and there is none righteous, no NOT ONE.

It all about Jesus and his blood that bought us. Oh the precious blood of the Lamb. With him you need no other or thing. These comments will help you understand the protestant beliefs. As the song goes, all I have is Jesus, all I need is Jesus.
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Very well said.
 
twopekinguys said:
Proallen;6420524:
Much more than you can imagine. What’s your point?🤷

In his sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time Martin Luther preached on the Feast of the Assumption, he stated:

There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.

The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).

[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).

No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).

One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God’s grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).
davidmacd.com/catholic/martin_luther_on_mary.htm
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Look, nobody has a problem with honoring Mary. Luther had no problem with it, I have no problem with it and folks I worship with have no problem with it. Mary is the foremost of all the saints. Yes she is in Heaven and yes she can pray with us just like the saints can. I’m right in the same mind set there. My issue is when folks take this to the extreme and they expect divine things from Mary. They pray to Mary instead of praying with Mary. They ask her to do things for them that only God can grant. They begin to entrust Mary in a way that only Christ should be entrusted. I find it offensive as a Christian when Christ stripped of this reverance. That is my issue.
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adstrinity said:
ROTFL!This has NEVER happened!!! EVER! Show ANY document where this was the reason for an excommunication. We are ALWAYS allowed to speak against the Holy Father and still be good practicing Catholics. Disagreeing with the Pope does not mean we are cut off from the Sacraments

So, Proallen is griping about people following what God says? Proallen is upset that Catholics are Biblically worshiping God?
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Can you call him a heretic and an enemy of God??
 
Proallen said:
Absolutely not. I was asking Mary and all of the saints in Heaven to pray with me. There is nothing wrong with that.
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So when you prayed the Hail Mary, it was your own *personal version *of the prayer?

Instead of praying,"…Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen."

You prayed, “…Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray with us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen.” ?

Likewise, you prayed your own *personal version *of the Litany of the Saints?

Instead of praying, “…St Joseph, pray for us” etc.

You prayed, “…St Joseph, pray with us” etc. ?
 
Proallen said:
None of what you said here was happening. It was pure idolotry.
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In your opinion. You have basically said you didn’t ask them if they were worshipping, so therefore it is an assumption on your part.
 
Thanks Proallen,
Code: 
  It was easy, it came straight from the Word of God.   That settled it for me.  Sometimes the obvious is overlooked and the gray areas are misinterpretted and those things not in the Word believed without question.  
  There is a thread throughout the Bible that always says the same thing, pointing to Christ.
John
 
Proallen said:
Can you call him a heretic and an enemy of God??
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Who? He who disagrees with the Pope? The Pope? Proallen? WHO?!!!

I can call anybody anything I want, but, the Church does not excomunicate solely on the basis of disagreeing with the Pope.
 
Hello ADSTRINITY,
Code: 
I wished the Pope, who I believe you call the chief Apostle would preach the word as Peter did.  If the Pope would declare Christ before the UN and other places by preaching salvation, sin and hell, then I would see that he is the Chief Apostle.   But he acts sometimes like a head of state.  My kingdom I belong to is not of this world.  

I thought the Pope was equal with the Bible.  The Bible is the Word of God, therefore infallible.  But man is fallible.
John
 
asmrbd said:
Hello ADSTRINITY,
Code: 
I wished the Pope, who I believe you call the chief Apostle would preach the word as Peter did.  If the Pope would declare Christ before the UN and other places by preaching salvation, sin and hell, then I would see that he is the Chief Apostle.   But he acts sometimes like a head of state.  My kingdom I belong to is not of this world.  

I thought the Pope was equal with the Bible.  The Bible is the Word of God, therefore infallible.  But man is fallible.
John
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How has the Pope not preached the word? Have you listened to his homilies? Have you read his encyclicals, or those of any Pope?

The Pope has declared Christ in front of the entire world. He doesn’t need the UN.

By the way, he is also a head of state. You realize that the Vatican is a nation unto itself right?

You obviously misunderstand the Pope. He is the Vicar of Christ. Christ’s earthly representative. When the Pope speaks, he is only infallible when speaking on matters of faith and morals.

Please, for your benefit, do some research into what the Pope (past and present) has preached.
 
Hey asmrbd,

The Pope is not equal to the Bible. The Bible is a book, the Pope is human. Human is more important than book (ANY human is more important than any book), but, that being said, the Pope is above the Bible in and of himself because the Papacy was around before the Bible. If the Bible was never written, we’d still have the Church because of the Bishops.

Second, no, the Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra on a matter of faith and morals. He is not impeccable. The Bible is never infallible because only humans can be infallible. The Bible is inerrant. It contains no errors.

No, we do not call the Pope the Chief Apostle. That is not one of his titles.

I will be the first to admit, I do not know the ministry efforts of the Pope himself except that he witnesses for the faith in the best way he can. Perhaps he doesn’t make a spectical of himself at the UN because it’s not the best way to witness about Christ.

edit: I do know, however, the Pope has a weekly (Wednesday) audience with those from around the world. He also adresses those in St. Peter’s Square, I believe, every Sunday afternoon.

I think it is telling how the past two Popes have been asaulted by other humans, and forgave them without a second thought.
 
twopekinguys said:
How has the Pope not preached the word? Have you listened to his homilies? Have you read his encyclicals, or those of any Pope?

The Pope has declared Christ in front of the entire world. He doesn’t need the UN.

By the way, he is also a head of state. You realize that the Vatican is a nation unto itself right?

You obviously misunderstand the Pope. He is the Vicar of Christ. Christ’s earthly representative. When the Pope speaks, he is only infallible when speaking on matters of faith and morals.

Please, for your benefit, do some research into what the Pope (past and present) has preached.
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True, I have not read everything, but standing before the UN would be a unique opportunity to share the faith. There were many lost people there. The blood of Jesus that redeems us would trump social issues, global warming and hunger. It is just a thought.
Thanks for your reply.
 
ADSTRINITY

That is the distinctive we have. The book is called the Word of God.
That cannot be equalled or lessoned by any man. It is a wonderful Holy book that testifies of Jesus. Thanks to God we have it.

Thanks for the good points,
John
 
asmrbd said:
True, I have not read everything, but standing before the UN would be a unique opportunity to share the faith. There were many lost people there. The blood of Jesus that redeems us would trump social issues, global warming and hunger. It is just a thought.
Thanks for your reply.
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What I don’t think you realize is that by speaking to the UN, he would actually be limiting the number of people who hear his message.

Do you really think that if he spoke to the UN, that those representatives are going to take his message(s) back to their countries? You realize of course that not all nations belong to the UN right?

The Pope gets his message directly to the people, by visiting different nations, where literally thousands of people come to see him and hear him preach, etc. Not to mention the media coverage. With today’s media coverage, he is seen by even more, both in the host country, and by those around the world.

You are also failing to realize that Christ’s redemption, and “social issues” are intertwined. If a person is redeemed by the blood as you put it, they will in turn work to resolve “social issues”.

By the way, I disagree that you call the examples given (abortion, genetic engineering, etc) are "social issues. Abortion is a sin. Genetic engineering is a sin.

By the way, this thread is about Mother Mary. It isn’t about the Pope, and his preachings, and reaching the UN, etc. If you would like to talk about those things, I would suggest you start a thread for that.
 
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