Mothers Day: Report from a Mormon ward (parish)

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teancum79 said:
The JOD was a collection of talks given by LDS leaders. However it was never checked for accuracy before it was published. Even with todays high tech computers errors still get into written martial. Not to mention people mis speaking and being mis quoted.

Considering the books lake of validity (that what is written was said) It is not widely used by the church though it is quoted form time to time.
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By LDS leaders, do you mean Prophets?
 
Those quotes are from a 19th century instructional manual for Mormom teachers. Click the link - you can see a scan of it yourself.

I am getting the sense that this information is somehow new to you? If so, I am very, very sorry, but I will not pretend that the history of the LDS church is anything that it is not. I am not the one who has lied to you. God bless.
 
LDS Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith also taught that “Negroes” were inferior to other races:
Not only was Cain called upon to suffer, but because of his wickedness he became the father of an inferior race. **A curse was place upon him and that curse has been continued through his lineage and must do so while time endures. Millions of souls have come into this world cursed with black skin and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood and the fullness of the blessings of the Gospel. These are the descendants of Cain. **Moreover, they have been made to feel their inferiority and have been separated from the rest of mankind from the beginning… we will also hope that blessings may eventually be given to our Negro brethren, for they are our brethren–children of God—notwithstanding their black covering emblematical of eternal darkness (The Way to Perfection, 101-02; emphasis added).
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Note that the prophet teaches that black skin is indeed a curse.
Paul
 
Stephen168 said:
By LDS leaders, do you mean Prophets?
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Many of them, I’ve not gone through the book myself it may also have talks given by non prophet leaders. There was a practice at one time to invite various people to speak in church meetings from other faiths I’m not sure when that was or how common.
 
If you choose to keep the blinders on, that is your choice. But for the sake of those lurkers who know little or nothing about Mormonism, we cannot let your dishonest whitewashed version of Mormonism go unchallenged.

Sorry,
Paul
 
PaulDupre said:
LDS Prophet Joseph Fielding Smith also taught that “Negroes” were inferior to other races:

Note that the prophet teaches that black skin is indeed a curse.
Paul
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I’ve not read that book, but I would have several questions about it.
Many church leaders have written a lot of books I’m guessing that this book like Mormon Doctrine was written to help members as a person work of a person and was not meant to be official doctrine.

When was JFS speaking? Checked Wiki (for what it is worth) The book was published when JFS was not the president of the church.
 
PaulDupre said:
If you choose to keep the blinders on, that is your choice. But for the sake of those lurkers who know little or nothing about Mormonism, we cannot let your dishonest whitewashed version of Mormonism go unchallenged.

Sorry,
Paul
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IBCK is the one whose been lying. Sorry that was not directed at you. This is not “new” information people have been throwing fits about LDS ideas for years. That some of the leaders would not be seen as overly kindly disposed to some races etc I’ve known for years. People often forget about the time factors. Most people who fought for the freedom of slaves in the America woudl be considered raciest today. The idea of segregation was the standing plan for most people in this country.

Such is now labeled raciest. Many of the women’s right movement form the era would now be called sexist.

I do however draw the line at the inference that the Church’s doctrines are racist. God has the right to gave and take to and from who he will. It is not for man to judge the mind of God.
 
teancum79 said:
IBCK is the one whose been lying.
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I posted a document from your own church, and quoted from it. That’s not lying. 🤷
I do however draw the line at the inference that the Church’s doctrines are racist. God has the right to gave and take to and from who he will. It is not for man to judge the mind of God.
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So did God curse people with black skin, as Joseph Smith and many of your prophets have openly taught, or did He not curse people with black skin? Which is it? If the prior teachings of prophets which stated that dark-skinned people are cursed are not to be taken seriously, are you admitting that there really is a deeply troubling problem with this teaching?
 
teancum79 said:
When was JFS speaking? Checked Wiki (for what it is worth) The book was published when JFS was not the president of the church.
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That’s true. At the time of publication, JFS was President of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.

You are aware, are you not, that all of the LDS apostles are sustained as “prophets, seers and revelators”? If JFS published these views as an ordained apostle and President of the Twelve, then it carries a great deal of doctrinal weight.

Paul
 
ibkc said:
I posted a document from your own church, and quoted from it. That’s not lying. 🤷

So did God curse people with black skin, as Joseph Smith and many of your prophets have openly taught, or did He not curse people with black skin? Which is it? If the prior teachings of prophets which stated that dark-skinned people are cursed are not to be taken seriously, are you admitting that there really is a deeply troubling problem with this teaching?
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You mis quoted our document using …] to remove vital parts to make your point. The teaching was that some people who where cursed for their sins also had dark skin, but you removed that for your post. You are either dishonest or incompetent beyond belief.
 
The fact is that the teachings of the Mormon church seem to change depending on who you are talking to. If you show them written documentation it is stated that you are taking it out of context, or that the person Quoted has not the authority to speck for the church.
You also get yeah that what it says but not what it means.

What it all comes down to is J Smith wrote a fairly average work of fiction and convinced people to buy into his lies. If it was not for the fact that peoples eternal lives were at risk it would be funny. i pray that the Holy Spirit comes to these souls to open there eye to the truth and leave this cult of heresy and lies.
 
teancum79 said:
You mis quoted our document using …] to remove vital parts to make your point. The teaching was that some people who where cursed for their sins also had dark skin, but you removed that for your post. You are either dishonest or incompetent beyond belief.
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While just a few posts ago I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I am no longer so sure that you’re just uninformed. You are the one who made the bald-faced statement that it was NEVER taught in the LDS church that people with dark skin are cursed, and ample evidence to the contrary has been since brought to everyone’s attention, from the BoM and from the writings of your prophets and your church’s teaching materials. Either you are dishonest or incompetent beyond belief. 😉
 
ibkc said:
While just a few posts ago I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I am no longer so sure that you’re just uninformed. You are the one who made the bald-faced statement that it was NEVER taught in the LDS church that people with dark skin are cursed, and ample evidence to the contrary has been since brought to everyone’s attention, from the BoM and from the writings of your prophets and your church’s teaching materials. Either you are dishonest or incompetent beyond belief. 😉
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We are seeing classic mormon apologetics in action.If cornered, deny, deny, deny. If presented with facts, change the subject. If really pressed, claim persecution. “You can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.” mormonism is a sow’s ear, a fake sow’s ear in fact and all the lying, twisting and turning will not change that fact. I have been sitting here watching teancum79’s whole defense fall apart. Your whole house of cards is falling down, teancum79.
 
teancum79 said:
I love how your opinion gets fact status and all others don’t.

There are many “facts” relating to the CC that the CC will not accept and label as anti-catholic.
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At least we have evidence for our facts. Mormons only have feelings to validate their facts. That’s not rational.

Just so you know, that’s not a personal attack, that’s just a fact. In my profession it has been a part of my life to review and evaluate evidence and determine facts. I realize that not everyone has that experience and it is common these days to go on “feelings”. As a result, people often confuse feelings with facts. Perhaps it would be helpful to refresh the understanding of facts and evidence.
 
aaah teancum, the problem is exactly what you have admitted to in this thread. you haven’t read the words of your own “prophets” and certainly haven’t read your scriptures as a whole in context with the exegesis of your “oracles of the lord”. you seem unaware of even basic doctrines that come straight out of the lesson manuals from modern LDS editions. i have to assume that you are one of the “new mormons” who disregards everything from before spencer kimball except the sound bites that when ripped out of context support the new “faith promoting” version promoted by boyd packer with his paul dunn approach to “truth”. you have yet to even attempt to show any evidence for any of your assertions and when presented with overwhelming evidence from mormon sources you choose to wave it off as misquoted, not written accurately and other absurd grasping at straws that clearly isn’t so from the consistent position published in mormondom throughout the years. face it your seminary teachers and sunday school teachers just read perpetuated the same flawed myths over and over again assuming in the hope that no one would ever consider the truth. it’s a LIE!!! it’s all a scam! stop drinking the koolaid while there’s still time.
 
Calling another forum member a “liar” or saying that they “lied” or told a “lie” is uncharitable and contrary to the rules that everyone signed on to when joining CAF.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
The fact is that the teachings of the Mormon church seem to change depending on who you are talking to. If you show them written documentation it is stated that you are taking it out of context, or that the person Quoted has not the authority to speck for the church.
You also get yeah that what it says but not what it means.

What it all comes down to is J Smith wrote a fairly average work of fiction and convinced people to buy into his lies. If it was not for the fact that peoples eternal lives were at risk it would be funny. i pray that the Holy Spirit comes to these souls to open there eye to the truth and leave this cult of heresy and lies.
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The Holy Spirit reached my soul while I was a practicing mormon, I start my RCIA in August. :signofcross: :signofcross:
 
reff said:
The Holy Spirit reached my soul while I was a practicing mormon, I start my RCIA in August. :signofcross: :signofcross:
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john 10:

27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all[d]; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one."

god will bless you
 
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