Mothers Day: Report from a Mormon ward (parish)

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Prince_Hal

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I attended my wife’s Mormon ward (parish) on Mothers Day. The first talk given during sacrament meeting was actually the keynote talk lasting about 20 minutes about the speakers gratitude for his mother. Not at all inappropriate, but certainly devoid of anything to do with worshipping God, or being more faithful to Him. But at the end you knew that this man loved his mother.

But the last talk came up with this interesting tidbit:

Eve was a greater mother than Mary for the following reasons:
  1. She is the mother of ALL living - Mary just of 1.
  2. [this was the main point] - Mary simply said yes to a no brainer - to be the mother of Christ. But Eve had to make a choice between two commandments. One was to obey God by having children and the second was not to partake of the fruit from the forbidden tree.
Now, in order obey the most important of the two (to have children so that we could come down to earth and get bodies) she would have to disobey the commandment about not partaking of the fruit. So she had a dilemma which she had to think about and calculate the effects. She chose to disobey the lesser of the commandments.

So, the 2 points together above, make Eve in the eyes of mormons the greater of the 2 mothers. Oh don’t get me wrong Mary is great, but not as great. In fact Mary got no further mention anywhere during the 70 minutes - and it was Mothers Day.

Mormonism is an odd religion and requires mental gymnastics to the nth degree to believe in it.

Contrast and compare with what we believe as Catholics.

God Bless,

Hal.
 
Absolutely about all my own Mother’s days in the Mormon church.

Where does it ever say in scripture that Eve had
to make a choice?

If she and Adam had procreated in the Garden, that would have happened. It’s just another way that the Mormon church teaches about sex. It’s not a gift. It’s a means of procreation. Twisted if you ask me.

Adam and Eve sinned. They didn’t pick a “lesser” sin. No where does God tell them that they cannot procreate without leaving the Garden. That’s just a Mormon teaching.

in Christ
Steph
 
?
Eve had a dilemma?
She had a choice b/t Gods commandment or children?

Where do/did they get that?
There was no choice given, that we’re told.
Just the one commandment. Did she even think of
children, and who’s to say she and Adam wouldn’t have
had them in Eden w/o the Fall?

Weird logic, I give it that.
 
folks trying to understand LDS teachigns using only catholic understanding of the Bible is like a Jewish person using only the OT to understand Christianity.

Without the information in the other scriptures a whole lot of stuff won’t make sense.
 
This is one unique phenomenon of the LDS. Their teachings do not have a biblical basis. At least with all the criticism that the CC receives our teachings are based on biblical ideas and solid tradition. People may disagree with how we as Catholics believe but at least the teachings can be supported don’t continually contradict themselves between sources.
 
Walk with God in the cool of the day vs. tough life. Yep. Good Call, eve. 👍

the “Happy Fault” has nothing to do with being anyone’s mother. It is because of the fall of Man that Christ entered the world and we haev redemption and the Catholic Church and are closer to GOd than even Adam was.

Eve blew it. Big Time. Mary got it right. Big Time.
 
teancum79 said:
folks trying to understand LDS teachigns using only catholic understanding of the Bible is like a Jewish person using only the OT to understand Christianity.

Without the information in the other scriptures a whole lot of stuff won’t make sense.
Click to expand...
can you better explain to us why Eve is a better mother? If memory serves, Prince Hal knows the LDS faith quite well. Seems like he was well vested in it once.
 
ralphinal said:
can you better explain to us why Eve is a better mother? If memory serves, Prince Hal knows the LDS faith quite well. Seems like he was well vested in it once.
Click to expand...
Eve being a “better mother” is an idea held by that speaker I’ve not seen it stated elsewhere. Both Eve and Mary are regarded as great and noble. I personally don’t like to compare who was better than who (with the exception of Christ) as it tends to cause problems and not do much to bring us closer to the Lord.

The concepts that the Fall was a past of Gods plan and that Eve and Adam made a good choice are part of LDS teachings, but if we want to get into a lot of that we should start a new thread.
 
Eve is esteemed by the LDS for disobeying God. If Eve hadn’t disobeyed God, than the LDS wouldn’t become gods of their own planets.

The Fall is seen as a good thing.

:eek:
 
teancum79 said:
folks trying to understand LDS teachigns using only catholic understanding of the Bible is like a Jewish person using only the OT to understand Christianity.

Without the information in the other scriptures a whole lot of stuff won’t make sense.
Click to expand...
There are no other scriptures other than the Bible. I don’t believe that God would change his mind on the whole creation and beginnings of man.

In Genesis, it is quite clear. Don’t eat the fruit, and go forth and multiply.

Adam and Eve could have had children and stayed in paradise if they had just stayed away from the fruit.
 
twopekinguys said:
There are no other scriptures other than the Bible. I don’t believe that God would change his mind on the whole creation and beginnings of man.

In Genesis, it is quite clear. Don’t eat the fruit, and go forth and multiply.

Adam and Eve could have had children and stayed in paradise if they had just stayed away from the fruit.
Click to expand...
There are several other scripture in the LDS faith. Others are welcome to accept them or not.

As far as the need for the Fall our faiths differ on that point. If one only had access to the Genesis account one might come to that conclusion.
 
I think it has to do with their view of who Christ is. As I understand they don’t see Christ as the only Son of the one true God, (but equal to God as the Second Person of the Trinity) the creator of all thing both visible and invisible.
That is my understanding without going into their belief in all good male Mormons getting their own planet. This belief makes the mothers of all good male Mormons equal to Mary because they are also the mother a of a christ god.
 
twopekinguys said:
There are no other scriptures other than the Bible. I don’t believe that God would change his mind on the whole creation and beginnings of man.

In Genesis, it is quite clear. Don’t eat the fruit, and go forth and multiply.

Adam and Eve could have had children and stayed in paradise if they had just stayed away from the fruit.
Click to expand...
I guess I am going to play the devils advocate for a moment. But first let me state that to ignore Mary on Mother’s Day seems completely bizarre. I would have been offended.

Now to my thought…If Eve hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit…;would there have been a need for Jesus to be born of the Blessed Virgin Mary…to save us from ourselves? We would all be without sin right? Is it possible that Eve had a choice and was less tempted by the serpent than we believe? Could she have known that she had to take and eat of the ‘no-no’ fruit so that we could come to know Jesus?

Does this make Eve a more important Mother than Mary? I don’t think so at all. But I wonder if Eve doesn’t get the short end of the stick sometimes?
 
An interesting thought.

If there had been no fall by which cometh death there could be no redemption by which cometh life.

So if Adam and Eve did not Eat Christ would have been pointless.
 
Whether Eve was a saint or a sinner also reflects upon the nature of God. Are we to believe that God deliberately put Eve into a position where she would have to disobey Him, and thereby receive punishment ? That is one incredibly odd sounding God to me.

God bless,

Hal.
 
MomblessedX3 said:
I guess I am going to play the devils advocate for a moment. But first let me state that to ignore Mary on Mother’s Day seems completely bizarre. I would have been offended.

Now to my thought…If Eve hadn’t eaten the forbidden fruit…;would there have been a need for Jesus to be born of the Blessed Virgin Mary…to save us from ourselves? We would all be without sin right? Is it possible that Eve had a choice and was less tempted by the serpent than we believe? Could she have known that she had to take and eat of the ‘no-no’ fruit so that we could come to know Jesus?

Does this make Eve a more important Mother than Mary? I don’t think so at all. But I wonder if Eve doesn’t get the short end of the stick sometimes?
Click to expand...
You are correct if Eve had not disobeyed, and the Fall had not happened the need for Christ to come and redeem us would not be there. Instead all generations would have walked with God in the garden would would see the Father and Son In their Glory are bodies would not age and decay and death would have no power. Eve had a choice and she could have chose to obey God and not eat the fruit. She made the wrong choice. Mary had a choice as well She made the correct choice. I do not see that it makes either a better mother than the other, just Make the Blessed Virgin a better decision maker.
 
twopekinguys said:
There are no other scriptures other than the Bible. I don’t believe that God would change his mind on the whole creation and beginnings of man.

In Genesis, it is quite clear. Don’t eat the fruit, and go forth and multiply.

Adam and Eve could have had children and stayed in paradise if they had just stayed away from the fruit.
Click to expand...
This is where the Catholics/Protestants and the Mormons differ. LDS doctrine is that Adam and Eve could not have children in the garden of Eden. Infact, we believe there was no birth or death at all (i.e animals and plants) until the fall. It’s from a scripture in Alma and I can quote it if you’re interested.

So the commandment to not partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and to go forth and multiply were contradicting commandments. They had to choose.

You can think of it this way if you want to consider this–the earth and everything in it was created by God. It was perfect. If Adam and Eve were to have children–would the child be their’s or God’s? Having children would be changing God’s perfect creation. The scripture in Alma states that the garden of Eden was unchanging and eternal as is God himself. Man’s disobedience was the agent of change.
 
Prince_Hal said:
I attended my wife’s Mormon ward (parish) on Mothers Day. The first talk given during sacrament meeting was actually the keynote talk lasting about 20 minutes about the speakers gratitude for his mother. Not at all inappropriate, but certainly devoid of anything to do with worshipping God, or being more faithful to Him. But at the end you knew that this man loved his mother.

But the last talk came up with this interesting tidbit:

Eve was a greater mother than Mary for the following reasons:
  1. She is the mother of ALL living - Mary just of 1.
  2. [this was the main point] - Mary simply said yes to a no brainer - to be the mother of Christ. But Eve had to make a choice between two commandments. One was to obey God by having children and the second was not to partake of the fruit from the forbidden tree.
Now, in order obey the most important of the two (to have children so that we could come down to earth and get bodies) she would have to disobey the commandment about not partaking of the fruit. So she had a dilemma which she had to think about and calculate the effects. She chose to disobey the lesser of the commandments.

So, the 2 points together above, make Eve in the eyes of mormons the greater of the 2 mothers. Oh don’t get me wrong Mary is great, but not as great. In fact Mary got no further mention anywhere during the 70 minutes - and it was Mothers Day.

Mormonism is an odd religion and requires mental gymnastics to the nth degree to believe in it.

Contrast and compare with what we believe as Catholics.

God Bless,

Hal.
Click to expand...
I dont know if anyone mentioned this yet, but from what I remember reading not too long ago was basically that the LDS dont see the sin of Adam and Eve as that big of a deal, in fact they consider it more or less a good thing. From a orthodox Christian point of view that is utter blasphemy and the worst deception of the devil.
 
rmcmullan said:
This is where the Catholics/Protestants and the Mormons differ. LDS doctrine is that Adam and Eve could not have children in the garden of Eden. Infact, we believe there was no birth or death at all (i.e animals and plants) until the fall. It’s from a scripture in Alma and I can quote it if you’re interested.

So the commandment to not partake of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and to go forth and multiply were contradicting commandments. They had to choose.

You can think of it this way if you want to consider this–the earth and everything in it was created by God. It was perfect. If Adam and Eve were to have children–would the child be their’s or God’s? Having children would be changing God’s perfect creation. The scripture in Alma states that the garden of Eden was unchanging and eternal as is God himself. Man’s disobedience was the agent of change.
Click to expand...
I would be interested in the evidence you provide, but I will make it clear I dont see how you could prove such a thing without the worlds greatest mental gymnastics.
 
The idea that Eve is greater than Mary is just silly and ignores reality.

Eve is supposed to be the Mother of Humanity.

Mary is the Mother of God

This is not a hard question.

Taking nothing away from Eve, but this is a no-brainer. Eve sinned, and did so quickly, Mary did not, EVER. The contrast is stunning but the conclusion is obvious.
 
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