Mothers Day: Report from a Mormon ward (parish)

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Catholic_Dude said:
Being naked is not evil or bad. The knowledge that they were naked means the concept of lust and dominance entered their hearts and minds. Instead of seeing eachother as humans with equal dignity they lusted, lust is about self gratification at the expense of another, and that is not what God intended with true self sacrificing/giving love. The main reason why clothes were introduced by God was to ward off the temptation for lustful glances.
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I’m sorry I’m a little confused with your comment; I don’t think any LDS have connected intimacy between Adam and Eve or husband and wife as evil or bad. What we have here is more a question of obedience and disobedience to a commandment of God. I would think that a husband’s desire for his wife is acceptable.

The question that has been put forth is that “Eve could have had children while in the garden before her disobedience”. In short my response was, it may have been possible if they had the required knowledge – which scripture implies that they did not - leaving us with a mute argument, as she conceived and gave birth only after leaving the garden.

Paul
 
Paul_G said:
I’m sorry I’m a little confused with your comment; I don’t think any LDS have connected intimacy between Adam and Eve or husband and wife as evil or bad. What we have here is more a question of obedience and disobedience to a commandment of God. I would think that a husband’s desire for his wife is acceptable.

The question that has been put forth is that “Eve could have had children while in the garden before her disobedience”. In short my response was, it may have been possible if they had the required knowledge – which scripture implies that they did not - leaving us with a mute argument, as she conceived and gave birth only after leaving the garden.

Paul
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Huge assumption there, as I don’t believe there is anywhere in the OT that details the sexual activities of Adam and Eve.

Also, there is still the problem that God does not play the double bind game. I feel sorry for anyone who believes that He does.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Huge assumption there, as I don’t believe there is anywhere in the OT that details the sexual activities of Adam and Eve.
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I believe it does Here are verse that relate I believe,

While in the garden

Gen 3: 16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee

While out of the garden

Gen 4:1
AND Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD
Also, there is still the problem that God does not play the double bind game. I feel sorry for anyone who believes that He does.
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I am indeed speculating as to what happen here, but to me at least the events do point to the appearance of allowance on one hand, and a forced compliance on the other. I don’t know how to account for that in any other terms, than is was part of an overall plan. Why didn’t our Father stop Eve as well if we were created to live in a paradisiacal state, I for one, would have much more enjoyed that, than the struggles I have endured in my live.🙂

Paul
 
teancum79 said:
We are following the Bible quite fully. It is the ideas of men who pretend to be acting in Christ name without his authority that we reject. Thats no pickle its the way to eternal life.
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You follow the Bible until it conflicts with the “ideas of men who pretend to be acting in Christ name without his authority”, at which you reject the Bible.

The Bible you reject was written, at least in part, by the Apostles personally chosen by Jesus Christ, often quoting Jesus Himself. And you substitute for the Word of God the musings of one man centuries later, a man who never knew Him.

In so doing, you disregard not only direct quotations of Jesus Christ, but all those who personally knew Him, all of their writings and history, all of the traditions that were handed down directly from Jesus.
 
Paul_G said:
I believe it does Here are verse that relate I believe,

While in the garden

Gen 3: 16
Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee

While out of the garden

Gen 4:1
AND Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD
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God would not say to a man and woman who were unknowledgeable or uncapable of having sexual intercourse to be fruitful and multiply. Not without them going, huh?

While in the Garden, the state of their being was without sorrow and pain. God explained to Eve what had CHANGED because of her sinful actions.
I am indeed speculating as to what happen here, but to me at least the events do point to the appearance of allowance on one hand, and a forced compliance on the other. I don’t know how to account for that in any other terms, than is was part of an overall plan. Why didn’t our Father stop Eve as well if we were created to live in a paradisiacal state, I for one would have much more enjoyed that, than the struggles have endured in my live.🙂
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Paul
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God did not stop Eve because He gave us the gift of free will. I know that Mormons understand this, did you forget?

It is much easier to account for than devising plans. It is all explained, very clearly and very well. The Garden was a place where God dwelled meaning it was indeed a very holy and perfect place as God does not dwell where there is sin.

Adam and Eve sinned, and thus could no longer be in the presence of God. It was indeed a sad day. God’s perfect, holy, creation was twisted to something He did not will it to be.

God did not give conflicting commands. He gave them their conditions for living in His presence, and told them how to be blessed themselves. Join together as one, be fruitful, and multiply. And of all the most wonderful creations in a newly created world, He only forbade them one thing. Just one.

It was a choice freely made. Not planned by God or desired by His Will.
 
RebeccaJ said:
God would not say to a man and woman who were unknowledgeable or uncapable of having sexual intercourse to be fruitful and multiply. Not without them going, huh?

While in the Garden, the state of their being was without sorrow and pain. God explained to Eve what had CHANGED because of her sinful actions.

God did not stop Eve because He gave us the gift of free will. I know that Mormons understand this, did you forget?

It is much easier to account for than devising plans. It is all explained, very clearly and very well. The Garden was a place where God dwelled meaning it was indeed a very holy and perfect place as God does not dwell where there is sin.

Adam and Eve sinned, and thus could no longer be in the presence of God. It was indeed a sad day. God’s perfect, holy, creation was twisted to something He did not will it to be.

God did not give conflicting commands. He gave them their conditions for living in His presence, and told them how to be blessed themselves. Join together as one, be fruitful, and multiply. And of all the most wonderful creations in a newly created world, He only forbade them one thing. Just one.

It was a choice freely made. Not planned by God or desired by His Will.
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It may have been a choice freely made but without that choice there would be no need for christ and the devil would be powerless until eve or adam commited that first sin as they surely would. Being cast out started the whole game. A game that we are still playing.
 
MelanieAnne said:
You follow the Bible until it conflicts with the “ideas of men who pretend to be acting in Christ name without his authority”, at which you reject the Bible.

The Bible you reject was written, at least in part, by the Apostles personally chosen by Jesus Christ, often quoting Jesus Himself. And you substitute for the Word of God the musings of one man centuries later, a man who never knew Him.
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Mormons do not reject the bible at all. In fact, they studied it rather closely. All last year, the mormons were studying the new statement (King James Version). I do believe that mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics who seem to only get the bible verses at Mass. The catholic church has no sunday school.
 
why_me said:
Mormons do not reject the bible at all. In fact, they studied it rather closely. All last year, the mormons were studying the new statement (King James Version). I do believe that mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics who seem to only get the bible verses at Mass. The catholic church has no sunday school.
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For the sake of brevity, I’ll stick with a single area already mentioned where Mormons reject the Bible, although the areas are actually vast. That example is the Holy Eucharist. Mormons reject the clear unequivocal direction of Jesus Christ Himself in instituting the Holy Eucharist.

Jesus said “do this” ~ where he refers to what He Himself was showing the Apostles to do during the Last Supper. He did not say “do this until I come up with something better and show it to you later”. Jesus said “this is My Body” and “this is My Blood”. He did not say “these are symbols”. Jesus used unleavened bread and wine, not wonderbread and water. These differences are not small, there is a great gulf between that which Jesus Himself commanded and what Mormons practice and what they understand their sacraments to be.

Cherry-picking the Bible and the teachings of Jesus is not “following” Jesus. To assert that you follow Jesus, while failing to follow the most important directive He gave, makes a mockery of the very idea of following Him. Mormons clearly reject Jesus and reject the Bible wherever it suits them.

As for the bit about “mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics” ~ the lack of discernment and understanding displayed in this forum on pretty basic things, even when provided with reference material to study, belies that entire notion. I’ll concede that Mormons may read the King James Version of Bible (an incomplete version by the way) but at least as evidenced by Mormons who post to this forum, most if not all of them do not understand what they are reading.

Those Mormons who read, studied, and learned the meaning of what they read often are no longer Mormons.
 
why_me said:
Mormons do not reject the bible at all. In fact, they studied it rather closely. All last year, the mormons were studying the new statement (King James Version). I do believe that mormons spend more time studying the bible than catholics who seem to only get the bible verses at Mass. The catholic church has no sunday school.
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I had to bold that. I belong to a parish that has adult Sunday School every Sunday and adult classes during the week. More Churches offer it or have offered it at one time or anther than have not. Now a lot of Catholics do not utilize it, but that is not the Church’s fault. If you mean that the Church has no institutionally required Sunday School, you are correct. At some point, people have to be responsible for their own study.
 
ralphinal said:
I had to bold that. I belong to a parish that has adult Sunday School every Sunday and adult classes during the week. More Churches offer it or have offered it at one time or anther than have not. Now a lot of Catholics do not utilize it, but that is not the Church’s fault. If you mean that the Church has no institutionally required Sunday School, you are correct. At some point, people have to be responsible for their own study.
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HEAR!!! HEAR!!!

I have been a Sunday School teacher for the last 6 years. If we don’t have Sunday School what was I doing? Must have been one heck of a Hallucination. And all this time I thought that I was teaching the Bible and the catechism. 🤷

My Parish has Sunday School for Elementary age every Sunday and on Wednesdays it has classes for Middle School, High School, and adults. They break it up like this for a number of reasons but our kids in Middle School and up are required to perform service hours and many of them volunteer Sunday Mornings.

We have a fantastic program and while I don’t have the actual nunbers we have a very high number of active youth.
 
MomblessedX3 said:
HEAR!!! HEAR!!!

I have been a Sunday School teacher for the last 6 years. If we don’t have Sunday School what was I doing? Must have been one heck of a Hallucination. And all this time I thought that I was teaching the Bible and the catechism. 🤷

My Parish has Sunday School for Elementary age every Sunday and on Wednesdays it has classes for Middle School, High School, and adults. They break it up like this for a number of reasons but our kids in Middle School and up are required to perform service hours and many of them volunteer Sunday Mornings.

We have a fantastic program and while I don’t have the actual nunbers we have a very high number of active youth.
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I ahve been teaching the Confirmation Class in my parish for three years now. I also participate in a young adults groups on Tuesday that consists of an hour of Adoration and a lecture or Bible Study every week.
 
The catholic church has no sunday school.
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My parish has Religious Education for adults every Sunday morning, four different Bible study classes for adults during the week, and Religious Education for children and teenagers on Sunday AND Wednesday. The only truth to your statement is that we don’t call it “Sunday school.”
 
ibkc said:
My parish has Religious Education for adults every Sunday morning, four different Bible study classes for adults during the week, and Religious Education for children and teenagers on Sunday AND Wednesday. The only truth to your statement is that we don’t call it “Sunday school.”
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We recently completely an in depth course at our parish. It was in the evening during the week. It was like taking a college course.

It’s not just whether study is done, it’s the depth and nature of the study itself. Years of “Gospel Doctrine” courses at a Mormon church, even during a year studying the Bible, haven’t gained most Mormons much of any understanding of basic Biblical facts, as exemplified just by this thread. So QUALITY counts too.
 
Why Me—

I am curious to know why you think we don’t have any kind of Sunday School. Where did you get that information?
 
MelanieAnne said:
You follow the Bible until it conflicts with the “ideas of men who pretend to be acting in Christ name without his authority”, at which you reject the Bible.

The Bible you reject was written, at least in part, by the Apostles personally chosen by Jesus Christ, often quoting Jesus Himself. And you substitute for the Word of God the musings of one man centuries later, a man who never knew Him.

In so doing, you disregard not only direct quotations of Jesus Christ, but all those who personally knew Him, all of their writings and history, all of the traditions that were handed down directly from Jesus.
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In the choice between the hear say from people who knew Christ 2k years back and those who know him now I’m going with the current information. Traditions are nice, but I’ll take God’s word over them any day.
 
teancum79 said:
In the choice between the hear say from people who knew Christ 2k years back and those who know him now I’m going with the current information. Traditions are nice, but I’ll take God’s word over them any day.
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Joseph Smith was not God.
 
teancum79 said:
In the choice between the hear say from people who knew Christ 2k years back and those who know him now I’m going with the current information. Traditions are nice, but I’ll take God’s word over them any day.
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You’ve got one guy who told a preposterous story vs. literally an army of others who told a different one. In the end, if one is hearsay, the other is hearsay too, if you’re calling what someone says “hearsay”. But the words of the Gospel writers are not “hearsay” they’re eyewitness testimony. The testimony of 100’s (if you count all those trained directly by the Apostles) has more evidentiary value over the testimony of one.

But then you don’t know the testimony of those 100’s of early Christians. Mormons neatly cut themselves off from the truth by calling everyone other than themselves “apostate”. Very handy if you want to start a new religion to denigrate all that which came before. That’s what Mohammed did too. Didn’t work for him either.
 
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