MOVIE: "Expelled"

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Flock of Dodos
Judgment Day: Intelligent Design on Trial
PBS Evolution series, an 8-hour documentary

The second one is specifically about the Dover ID Trial, but they all cover the creation-evolution-ID controversy in a fair way, interviewing all the main participants (some people of course who overlap with Expelled). While Expelled concentrates on the “mean atheists” and their atheism with very little science content, thus making for a totally unbalanced documentary, these three have both the main ID and creationist people, and those scientists and teachers who accept evolution and believe in God – despite what Expelled says, there are many thousands of these, and the PBS Evolution series does at least one hour just on the God question (interviewing theistic evolutionists and creationists both).
Since it was brought up, here are some links of interest:
Flocking to video stores?
answersingenesis.org/articles/2007/09/13/flocking-to-video-stores

Other links and resources of interest:

Origins of life
answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/origin.asp

Fossils
answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/fossils.asp

Expelled Exposed – Exposed
evolutionnews.org/2008/04/expelled_exposed_exposed.html

Expelled does NOT blame Darwin for the Holocaust
evolutionnews.org/2008/04/expelled_does_not_try_to_blame.html
 
Be aware; “Answers in Genesis” has been caught doctoring the statements of scientists to make it appear that they believe things they do not.

Don’t trust anything you get there, unless you can verify it elsewhere.
 
Just finished wathing “Expelled no itelligence allowed”. good movie brings up some compelling issue’s.
“PG” for the nazi death camp photos but still good History info.
No wonder America has fallen to the Culture of Death when that is all that is taught and studied.
check it out if your were thinking about it.
i’m going to try to get my Humanist friend to watch it.and get his opinion.
Peace.
 
I saw this movie and was amazed. What a great movie!

So good was it, that I showed it at my church. Everyone LOVED it (including the deacon from my church).

The movie showed the evolutionists for the brainwashed nincompoops that they are.

I wouldn’t trust a single one of them to my cats, much less to the theory of how life began.

This movie is a MUST see, so that Christians can learn the equation: **Higher IQ Does Not Necessarily = Common Sense

And here’s proof:

IQ’s of Nazi leaders tried for war crimes
“The Nuremberg Mind”: The Psychology of the Nazi Leaders (by Florence R. Miale and Michael Selzer)
RED = Gifted / DARK RED = Above Average / ORANGE = Average

1 Hjalmar Schacht 143
2 Arthur Seyss-Inquart 141
3 Hermann Goering 138
4 Karl Doenitz 138
5 Franz von Papen 134
6 Eric Raeder 134
7 Dr. Hans Frank 130
8 Hans Fritsche 130
9 Baldur von Schirach 130
10 Joachim von Ribbentrop 129
11 Wilhelm Keitel 129
12 Albert Speer 128
13 Alfred Jodl 127
14 Alfred Rosenberg 127
15 Constantin von Neurath 125
16 Walther Funk 124
17 Wilhelm Frick 124
18 Rudolf Hess 120
19 Fritz Sauckel 118
20 Ernst Kaltenbrunner 113
21 Julius Streicher 106

**'Nuff said …
 
Just finished wathing “Expelled no itelligence allowed”. good movie brings up some compelling issue’s.
“PG” for the nazi death camp photos but still good History info.
No wonder America has fallen to the Culture of Death when that is all that is taught and studied.
check it out if your were thinking about it.
i’m going to try to get my Humanist friend to watch it.and get his opinion.
Peace.
If you friend knows which way is up, he will recognize Expelled for the truck load of rubbish it is. Expelled Exposed details all the distortion, omissions, and outright lies in this “documentary.” It’s amazing that anyone with a conscience would try to promote the film. See expelledexposed.com/
 
If you friend knows which way is up, he will recognize Expelled for the truck load of rubbish it is. Expelled Exposed details all the distortion, omissions, and outright lies in this “documentary.” It’s amazing that anyone with a conscience would try to promote the film. See expelledexposed.com/
What agenda do you have here? That website is fairly weak in it’s arguments in refuting the movie.

We could go over every one of the “debunking Expelled” items, but the information listed there is pretty lame.

Any crowing here about the supposed “evidence” against the movie seems short-sighted and biased.

An example would be the first one I clicked on—the “evidence” against the film regarding Guillermo Gonzalez. The site basically says, " “Expelled’ claims that Gonzalez was denied tenure because of his ID work. But many people are denied tenure in this country. He was probably denied tenure because of his lack of publishing”, and cites ISU’s officially stated reasons for Gonzalez’ denial of tenure as “evidence” against the film.

What?!? You were maybe expecting ISU to officially and legally declare that the denial of tenure was due to Gonzalez’ work in ID?!?!?

Oh wait!

The website then backtracks and basically states that “even if Gonzalez was denied tenure because of his work on ID, then that is still okay because ID is NOT A WORTHY SCHOLARLY ENTERPRISE.”

Oh, okay. THAT sure clears things up for us…

:rolleyes:

Of course, the website gathers quotes from scientists opposed to ID to shore up it’s "case of evidence exposing ‘Expelled’ ".

What a surprise!

Anti-ID quotes from anti-ID scientists is supposed to show how wrong a movie is which claims that there is an anti-ID bias in academia?!?

Uh…

😊

YOU may find this compelling, “slam dunk” evidence that “'Expelled” is a “truckload of rubbish”. I’M guessing there are plenty of other people who find it otherwise.
 
YOU may find this compelling, “slam dunk” evidence that “'Expelled” is a “truckload of rubbish”. I’M guessing there are plenty of other people who find it otherwise.
Is that why this “documentary” was met essentially with stunning silence when it opened i a handful of theaters, and has ceased to cause any interest since then?
 
They should have titled the film “It’s Bush’s Fault” and it would have won an Oscar.
 
Is that why this “documentary” was met essentially with stunning silence when it opened i a handful of theaters, and has ceased to cause any interest since then?
Sorry?

Is that supposed to be a defense of the lame website?

Are you now attempting to give credit for the low box-office of ‘Expelled’ to that website?

What exactly does “stunning silence” mean?

And if there isn’t any interest why are there virtually continous discussions about the film here and many other places?

Your entire “low box-office = the film is wrong” ideas are completely goofy to me.

As soon as you make a cogent argument involving distribution deals, public relations, marketing monies and strategies, audience interest, and political correctness I will begin to pay attention.
 
And if there isn’t any interest why are there virtually continous discussions about the film here and many other places?
Can you show me some of these “virtually continuous discussions?” Between July 9 2008 and March 7 2009 this thread lay dormant.:confused: No “continuous discussion,” because there has been nothing to discuss.

So, after the flurry of controversy surrounding this “documentary,” Expelled fell into the dustbin of film history. Meanwhile, 100,000 biologists, paleontologists, geneticists and allied scientists – including Catholic priests – have continued on quietly with their work with evolution. Expelled had zero impact on their work, however much it may temporarily have excited people with no experience of what science is and how it operates, or of what is involved in making tenure decisions in biology departments. It may be revived from time to time in church basement screenings, largely as a curiosity.😃

StAnastasia
 
Go to audiosancto.org. The main priest, who has the most sermons on the topic on the site, was trained in the biology of beings.

I’m sorry, but, when K. Henry VIII wanted his annulment, not all bishops OKed it. Does that mean reliability meant “truth”? No. Just because everyone is ok with something doesn’t mean it’s true. A lot of priests did some very wrong things in the spirit of Vatican 2. They went to seminaries and completed their studies. Can we then criticize clown masses done by some of them, despite not knowing their amount of theology? Yes. There are those of theological integrity that say, “No”. There is, thus, grounds for the clergy to blast a clown Mass.

The same goes for science. How do you know the Pope’s scientists are not in the pocket of Big Science? There is certainly grounds to doubt Darwinian evolution and any macroevolution. Where’s the transitional species? Who can witness a change of species? We have reason. We don’t all have to be biologists to smell bull turd. I think the macroevolution scientists are digging themselves the same hole that those who rejected Galileo did and the Pope’s scientists are going to make us look incredulous again someday, when they go down in history with Big Science as blundering scientific understanding. Macroevolution is a religious concept meant to make God’s special creation irrelevant. They probably tolerate clergy holding to a theistic evolution as likely an extension of the false ecumenism of the post '60s Church. The Bible is infallible; macroevolution has big holes in it. I think, in the year of St. Paul, we could make some converts amongst the evangelicals, who see the Bible more right in this regard, and get some St. Pauls out of it. Big Science will eventually start another Hadamar and we’ll be sent there for believing in God. It’s foolish to try to score points with them by being “reasonable”, if that’s the intention.

Judges and, especially the jury, don’t know all the areas of expertise of expert-in-a-field witnesses, but they can decide if the defendant is guilty or not guilty.
 
The popes can make mistakes, not involving doctrine, in personal opinion and in behavior. There is precedent for this. Believing they can do otherwise is deifying them. We must be open-minded about this. The Pope has to be like a judge and jury, regarding evolution. Judges don’t know everything about everything expert witness talk about, even after having researched the topic on their own during breaks or in prep., and even less, do most in the jury. Besides, I did not question the integrity of the pope’s reasoning; though, if Rome’s chief exorcist fears there’s Masonic infiltration by some in the Vatican (it was done like how the Jedi were blind to the Sith lord’s intentions, due to his cunningness), it’s not impossible that the Pope is being misled by some of their scientists. Whether this is true, it will not affect the Church’s divinely-protected inerrancy in teaching fundamental truths, even if all clergy would become modernists. Still, accepting a theory with major flaws as sound science, even if you throw God’s special creation of us in it, will confuse many and that’s probably second-best for Satan, I think, unless he’s still butting his head against the Church’s protective walls, still trying to destroy it as his only goal. Satan is the master of lies and half-truths and so nothing short of the truth about the origins of the universe, the planet and/or us should be accepted, especially because they contradict the Bible. The Church can exegete, and it may not result in Church teaching (it would not, if wrong), but it could have devastating effects for the laity and Catholic scientists, especially if found to be another Galileo case.
 
I don’t really have anything to say about the larger debate here (haven’t seen “Expelled,” I like Ben Stein, seems like a nice guy, but it sounds like he might be in a little bit over his head here, i.e. he’s not trained in the sciences, mainstream or otherwise) or about any finer points of theological thought (except that the first papal support of evolution as a valid scientific theory not at odds with Catholicism when it applies to strictly biological matters came in 1950, in Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis, which is certainly pre-Vatican II).

Instead, I just have to address the recurring argument against evolution that asks “where are the transitional fossils?” They are everywhere. Literally. There is not a patch of fossil-bearing earth that does not contain, in some form, a fossil that represents a transitional form of some kind. The only difference between “macroevolution” and “microevolution” is geologic time. Small changes become, under the right circumstances and with enough time, big changes - changes large enough to separate species from their forebears. The “where are the transitional fossils” argument always devolves into a hair-splitting exercise. Example: Scientists theorize, due to shared characteristics, that birds evolved from reptile ancestors. A fossil is found that blends reptilian and avian characteristics, providing a snapshot of this change. For most people, this would count as evidence for that particular theory, especially as more and more of this sort of fossil, and others like it, are found. The “macroevolution” argument then shoots back, “Yeah? Well, where are the transitional fossils between Species A and Species B?”

Again, everywhere. The fossil record is a collection of scattered portraits that requires paleontologists to piece together history like a collage, but every once in a while they are lucky enough to find a place where it runs more like a filmstrip, showing every step of the process. Case in point: shark teeth are the most numerous vertebrate fossils on the planet, due to their continued production in a shark’s mouth, their durability, and the presence of sharks on this planet for 400 million years or so. In several places on earth (South Carolina, Peru, Morocco, Kazakhstan, the Chesapeake Bay) there are sedimentary deposits that seamlessly represent 10-50 million years of seabed stacked in nice, orderly layers. In these layers are teeth that show the tiny, at times imperceptible changes that eventually result in speciation. A Late Pliocene shark, Isurus hastalis (and I am entering controversial waters here, as some prefer the genus name Cosmopolitodus, some Carcharodon, but anyway) starts developing small nicks along the sides of its broad, smooth-edged teeth late in the Pliocene. These irregular nicks become larger and more regular as the teeth move upwards through time, until finally around the Pliocene/Pleistocene border these teeth have become recognizably Carcharodon carcharias, the modern Great White, with its large, complete, regular serrations. What to call the intermediary teeth, with the irregular serrations? They have been labeled Isurus escheri, but trying to figure whether a tooth is a somewhat jagged hastalis or a smoother that usual escheri becomes difficult. This phenomena is not limited to this one transition, either; the decent of dozens of genera and scores of individual species can be traced, in a seamless and continuous fashion, in these sediments, and the uniform and undisturbed sedimentary deposits that yield them make it possible to see the individual teeths’ relative position to other teeth that came before or after very simple. These deposits also hold portraits of ray, whale, dugong, crocodile, and invertebrate evolution as well.

Basically, even ignoring genetics, biogeography, and comparative anatomy, one could make a remarkably strong case for one species becoming another one or more species based on paleontology alone. Either sharks somehow operate outside of the rules that govern the rest of life, or these rules apply to life universally.

Does this have anything to do with the fact that Christ dies for our sins, and through him all mankind can enjoy eternal life? Nope, not at all.
 
This argument is in Genesis territory. That’s why it matters. I’d rather stick with the Bible and win some fundamentalist converts than stick with a theory with holes and win “reasonable” converts. Of course, our understanding of the Bible has brought in fundamentalists, but we could get far more sticking to the only infallible story, unless macroevolution should be proven. I don’t think it will, as it’s full of “just-so stories” concocted by eugenicists and perpetuated by Communists. I understand Mao had Darwin taught in school, before his red book was taught. I think some just want to pretend theology can absorb it. Like in Fr. deChardin’s case, it’s more likely to absorb theologians or get darn-near close. His name is prominent in the “Piltdown Man” scandal.
At a Christian college, i got in trouble for asking a tough question of a professor of marriage and family therapy. How evolution has anything to do with fixing family disharmony, I can’t imagine, but their fanaticism about it was worrisome. Others have run into this indoctrination as well. Unlike whether red meat is good for you or not, these people get religious
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 I think that the fossilized transitional species are just a coincidence--a mutation or a co-existing creature.  Can you really test the age of their bones, when you just have an imprint?  Nevertheless, I prefer to take the info. from macroevolutionists who became Creationists or, at least, macroevolution doubters and Intelligent Design believers.  They've seen the "evidence" and have a problem with it.  

As far as "you're not a scientist" goes, it has me thinking of Dr. Venkman, when he asks the woman at the beginning some absurd question and he gets a comment from library staff.  He says something like, "Back off!  I'm a scientist!".  As I said, judges don't know everything about every specialty within law, the jury, save maybe one, knows even less, and the Pope doesn't know enough about science to make a firm decision.  Yet, when he says something pro-macroevolution, the scientific community says "See, the Pope says, "OK", when they tolerate theistic evolution as anything that might lead the average Catholic to apostasy; when he criticizes condoms, he's a backward caveman who shouldn't speak of what he doesn't understand.  Interesting.

Catholicism is about faith and reason and Ben Stein can use reason to point out logical flaws in an argument.  Let's face it, macroevolution is a theology posing as science.  Check the sermon on that website.  The priest who speaks about it was trained in biology.  That is the harmony between religion and science.  being an obedient traditionalist, I think he would not speak against macroevolution if a pre-Vatican 2 pope OKed it.  In any case, we don't accept St. Thomas Aquinas's opinion of when the soul enters the body (another thing those of another scientific field meddles in, when they want to sell the pseudo-science of abortion), nor do we accept a flat Earth (the Big Bang is also doubtful.  Things change.  We've learned new things, while science dogmatically stick to macroevolution.  Some point out gravity, but there could be found a groundbreaking reunderstanding of that.  Science is meant to be a tool; no part is meant to be dogma.  When Big Science praised Piltdown Man for decades before it was denounced as a hoax, we saw the religion of those in Big Science in its true colors.
 
The same goes for science. How do you know the Pope’s scientists are not in the pocket of Big Science? There is certainly grounds to doubt Darwinian evolution and any macroevolution. Where’s the transitional species? Who can witness a change of species? We have reason. We don’t all have to be biologists to smell bull turd. I think the macroevolution scientists are digging themselves the same hole that those who rejected Galileo did and the Pope’s scientists are going to make us look incredulous again someday, when they go down in history with Big Science as blundering scientific understanding. Macroevolution is a religious concept meant to make God’s special creation irrelevant.
You’re free to make this statement, but it is irrelevant to the 100,000 biologists, paleontologists and geneticists who work with evolution every day. And your opinion would have been regarded as baseless and without substance at the Rome conference two weeks ago. There were many priests participating in the animated discussion surrounding the topic.

StAnastasia
 
The ones who work in the field of paleontology work under a certain dogmatic premise of the religious branch of the left, Big Science, which largely infests academia. Most scientists work under a premise, using tools considered advanced enough for all time when they serve their purposes, taught as the final word on the matter (not science’s role), before brave souls with integrity, revolutionize the field. They usually suffer ridicule by those who want to feel smart out of insecurity and some never see their theory and themselves vindicated. Unfortunately, that’s how the wheels of science spin. It’s special interests. we saw it with eugenics and Piltdown Man. We mysteriously lost “Peking Man”. Interesting.

Improve society by thinking for yourself, using your God-given reason, when our doctrines are not involved. The world the Left in America want to please so bad is falling apart. They have been out to euthenize the 3rd world, people who are descendants of them in developed countries, and the severely inhibited disabled population for centuries. It seems they are making themselves non-adaptable as their so-intelligent “well-breds” have done so. They concocted macroevolution and have guarded it jealously and their hate is ending Western Civilization there and anywhere else it is accepted. Theistic Evolution, like how we have avoided dogmas that upset the Protestants, is just a way to appease the modernist gods of Mt. Darwin. Both don’t really respect us for that. This is just the Catholic version of white guilt, except that we are sacrificing our identity to make amends with Big Science over the Galileo thing. They have far more Galileo skeletons in their closet and they have done far worse than just punish one man. It’s time to regain our integrity, as Catholics, by declaring the 5th Marian dogma and listening more to those who did believe in macroevolution, but, like St. Paul, changed by a different shock–the shock of truth–probably given by God.
 
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