MOVIES: "Doubt" (contains spoilers)

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As a proud Catholic, and an actor, I would say that the play certainly does not portray the Catholic Church in a bad light. In fact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning play is dedicated to “the many orders of Catholic nuns who have devoted their lives to serving others in hospitals, schools and retirement homes. Though they have been much maligned and ridiculed, who among us has been so generous?” Hardly a condemnation. The principle conflict of the play is not that a priest has or hasn’t molested a young boy, but rather that if he has, a person who is invested his well-being (Sr. Aloysius, the principal), has no recourse to investigate the matter. All her jurisdiction allows her to do is go to the pastor, and if the pastor does not suspect, the issue ends there, whether or not the boy has indeed been abused. The Church has thankfully moved on from that strictly hierarchical model, and that is the point of the play. It’s about how when people trust too strongly in a system, predators are able to come in and exploit the innocent. Another theme is how doubt itself is not the opposite of faith, it’s part of it.

As a piece of literature, it’s beautiful, and as a piece of theatre, it’s dynamic and compelling. I haven’t yet seen the film, and in my experience playwrights aren’t that great as filmmakers, so the film may suffer.
 
I have heard that about adaptions from play to film before…a rare director can do it well. You always lose something.

I agree the more hierarchy you have, the more secrets are kept.
At least today, although caused by exposing sin in paper, internet and TV, people that were “untouchable” in some ways, religious, teachers, counselors, boyscout leaders, etc. are on notice, people will listen and there wont be “Oh so and so wouldn’t do that” or the deep embarassment of having to approach someone about it.
When I bemoaned all the press about infidelity, abuse, etc. to someone,. he spoke the truth and said, “Deb, it’s always been going on, hidden, just because it didn’t interfere with your world, doesn’t mean it didn’t exist” He’s right, when I was in grade school, people were abused by priests. other religious, counselors, doctors, etc. but I was safe in my “bubble”.
I still pray for more good press, not just the bad, but I realize now, that 'no news" doesn’t mean nothing is happening.
 
While I understand the views stated below, I still do not agree with rehashing/bashing the Church. It’s the Catholic Church the movie is talking about and belittling once again. Doesn’t anyone have anything pleasant to say about our great Church? Sure, the abuses were/are horrible! No doubt! But, to keep portraying the Church in such a bad light, day in and day out just adds fuel to the fire. Can’t we see something that will give us hope about our future in the Church? Now, that would be uplifting for many, I’m susre. :rolleyes:
 
That would have to be made by someone who could bring a great story to the screen without a lot of money. There doesn’t seem to be right now anything that sticks out as a good subject. You can’t have fiction, that would be seen as propaganda, the producer wanting to spin something good about the church. There are still bad stories coming out…it makes you get that lump in your throat everytime you read one. I wish it would be gone, but I think we have a bit to go before we can say that , if ever.

I think if someone takes a priest, like the ones highlighted in the book I recommended and espounded on it, it might make a good small movie. Even if they did a few priests, showing their work, their results, interviews, etc. Even if it was just on TV. That would be a nice holiday show.
 
Now that’s what I’m talking about. OR - why don’t film makers go back to when the Church began with Peter and tell that story? That would be interesting and informative.
 
To Debraran: There is, in fact, a movie about a priest like those in the book you recommended, it’s called The Hoodlum Priest, and it was made way back in 1961. It’s a classic that I suspect has been underrated for so long because of it’s Social Justice message. In truth, there are plenty of movies that portray heroic priests: On the Waterfront, Romero, The Mission, and The Scarlet and the Black, to name a few.

To Mom4truth: As I stated, nothing about the movie “bashes” the Catholic Church. A Catholic grade school and parish is merely a backdrop for the drama that plays out. If anything, it’s a story about people who at the time were powerless in the Church, but fought anyway to keep the predators from harming the innocent. Sister Aloysius has no concrete proof that Father Flynn is molesting the boy, but in her mind, and quite rightly, she should take no chances. How can it bash the Church if the main character is a nun who tirelessly works to protect the innocent at any cost?

As far as films that uplift and give hope about the Church’s future, I agree there aren’t many. I’m working on it. Apparently Martin Sheen is trying to make a film about Fr. Shay Cullen. The problem is that the most important part of any dramatic story is conflict, and the conflict present in the lives of the saints isn’t nearly as dramatically interesting as the conflict in the lives of the sinners. There are some magnificent stories of heroism and hope in the Catholic Church that would make wonderful movies, but Hollywood is a lazy and hedonistic beast, and would rather mine the media for stories of sin.
 
mom4truth said:
While I understand the views stated below, I still do not agree with rehashing/bashing the Church. It’s the Catholic Church the movie is talking about and belittling once again. Doesn’t anyone have anything pleasant to say about our great Church? Sure, the abuses were/are horrible! No doubt! But, to keep portraying the Church in such a bad light, day in and day out just adds fuel to the fire. Can’t we see something that will give us hope about our future in the Church? Now, that would be uplifting for many, I’m susre. :rolleyes:
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I hope we do not forget the abuse of children by the hands of Priests anytime soon, it would be an injustice to the victims. I cannot imagine the pain the victims and their families suffered. Your supposed to trust a Priest because he’s supposed to be holy, then you find out he is the worst kind of monster and sinner imaginable. Then they church hushes it up and shields the rapest. Thats not something that should ever be taken lightly, and unfortunately, I’ve met far too many Catholics that do.
It’s not a subbject that should be dismissed anytime in the near future, for the real victims sake.
 
I will look up those movies tonight. Thank you.
I also like looking at Fr. Groechel’s order and reading e-letters about their travels and people they meet…sometimes sad, sometimes uplifting.

I think what made me the most upset with the scandals, wasn’t just the men being priests and abusing, some of them were beyond help, but the “normal” men that helped them with silence and the moving them around to hurt others. Their pride made them care more about the church’s reputation than all the young men and women that were touched by it. Maybe some were thinking it wasn’t that bad, I don’t know.
God help me, as much as I love Jesus and our church, there is a part of me when the anger rears it’s ugly head for a moment, that thinks, “Good” when the bad publicity hits…that’s what decades of lies, coverups and horrible decisions do. They deserve to squirm. Then I think of the good, decent priests and pray…:gopray:
 
www.americancatholic.org does Catholic movie reviews and even will tell you if the material is “morally offensive”. Doubt isn’t listed yet I think b/c it hasn’t been released, but it should be up soon.
 
debraran said:
I will look up those movies tonight. Thank you.
I also like looking at Fr. Groechel’s order and reading e-letters about their travels and people they meet…sometimes sad, sometimes uplifting.

I think what made me the most upset with the scandals, wasn’t just the men being priests and abusing, some of them were beyond help, but the “normal” men that helped them with silence and the moving them around to hurt others. Their pride made them care more about the church’s reputation than all the young men and women that were touched by it. Maybe some were thinking it wasn’t that bad, I don’t know.
God help me, as much as I love Jesus and our church, there is a part of me when the anger rears it’s ugly head for a moment, that thinks, “Good” when the bad publicity hits…that’s what decades of lies, coverups and horrible decisions do. They deserve to squirm. Then I think of the good, decent priests and pray…:gopray:
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I agree. I love the church, I’m very proud to be Catholic. I became Catholic last year. But it really angered me that the church covered up abuse. Like you said, they were thinking more about saving face than abou the victims. Some of the victims that are now adults are so messed up because of what happened to them.
 
I understand that it’s important not to hide the ‘abuse scandal’ because it happened and it’s a horrible thing… however, I think what movies like this do is they just reinforce the negative biases some people have against the Church 😦 these days, whenever someone makes a movie about the Catholic Church, it’s always about something bad. Exceptions are movies made by Catholics, such as…‘Therese’.

Also, it’s been shown that child abuse happens in Protestant churches, sometimes more so than in Catholic parishes. But few know about this and no one mentions it ever… people only talk about the “evil Catholic priests”…
 
I know abuse happens with other Christian sects and Jewish (I’m sure other demoninations too) but I don’t think anything like ours happened to them…it would certainly get the press. They also weren’t sending them all over, probably because they are usually married and stay in their home. If you look at any abuse sites, it’s humbling the amount of times each priest was accused before convicted. Sometimes years and years went by. Some priests admitted it and were sent to therapy and then they did it again.

The reason they pick on us is because we are different…our priests don’t marry, they have the power to turn bread and wine into Christ, they hear confessions, etc. They hold themselves up higher in moral issues than many, so they will fall harder when they sin. The hypocrisy makes them any easy target.

Someone said, the pope apoligized, that’s nice, but that doesn’t make it better and it doesn’t account for shipping priests to the Vatican during the scandals. I know every group protects each other to a degree, priests have only being a priest on their resume usually. They cover for each other, forgive each other, but this scandal even pitted them against each other. Fr. Corapi said a priest friend on his was accused of abusing a girl that had a bad past, they tossed him, he drives a cab now. Maybe they react too quickly today, but they were WAY too slow before. It will start to even out one day.
 
I agree that many cases were covered up before and they were too slow in doing anything about it… but I’ve read a study where they found that in the Baptist church there is actually more sexual abuse but the reason people don’t hear that much about it is because the pastors etc just move around a lot… they can just leave and start a new church. I’m not denying that this happened in the Catholic church and was even covered up… but many people don’t realize that it’s not just the Catholic church.
 
I probably will not see this movie. I’m tired of the Catholic priest jokes and Hollywood bashing anything that is Christian.
Hollywood doesn’t get it. If they made a positive movie about a priest, nun, saint, or pope, they would make tons of money.
I’d rather see Bing Crosby in The Bells of Saint Mary’s then watch this movie.
 
mom4truth said:
I would like to hear some truly Catholic reviews about this film. Probably not going to see it. I imagine it sheds a horrible light on Catholicism as usual. 😦
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from the USCCB.org site
Doubt —Engrossing drama set in 1964 at a Bronx parochial grammar school where the nun (Meryl Streep) who serves as principal suspects a popular priest (Philip Seymour Hoffman) of impropriety with a 12-year-old black student, and together with a young teacher (Amy Adams), sets out to confront him. Writer-director John Patrick Shanley has successfully adapted his Pulitzer Prize-winning stage hit, deftly recreating the Catholic milieu of the era, with outstanding performances, including that of Viola Davis as the distraught mother of the putative victim. Though sexual abuse is part of the story, it is the balance of doubt and certainty in society at large that forms the principal thematic subtext. Discreetly handled sexual abuse theme. A-III – adults. (PG-13)* 2008*
Full Review.
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The first trailers of the movie to come out on tv made it seem like the nun was a just a resentful, nosy old biddy and hated the priest with no provocation. Now the trailers are showing a little more “doubt.” It may be priest-bashing or it may be nun-bashing. Either way, somebody in religious life is getting bashed.
 
Just as the thread title says, anyone know anything about this movie? Is it going to be another one of those horrid presentations of the Catholic church? I keep seeing the commercials on the morning news shows!

Brenda V.
 
As a proud Catholic, and an actor, I would say that the play certainly does not portray the Catholic Church in a bad light. In fact, the Pulitzer Prize-winning play is dedicated to “the many orders of Catholic nuns who have devoted their lives to serving others in hospitals, schools and retirement homes. Though they have been much maligned and ridiculed, who among us has been so generous?” Hardly a condemnation. The principle conflict of the play is not that a priest has or hasn’t molested a young boy, but rather that if he has, a person who is invested his well-being (Sr. Aloysius, the principal), has no recourse to investigate the matter. All her jurisdiction allows her to do is go to the pastor, and if the pastor does not suspect, the issue ends there, whether or not the boy has indeed been abused. The Church has thankfully moved on from that strictly hierarchical model, and that is the point of the play. It’s about how when people trust too strongly in a system, predators are able to come in and exploit the innocent. Another theme is how doubt itself is not the opposite of faith, it’s part of it.
Click to expand...
As a piece of literature, it’s beautiful, and as a piece of theatre, it’s dynamic and compelling. I haven’t yet seen the film, and in my experience playwrights aren’t that great as filmmakers, so the film may suffer.
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This man gets a cookie.

🍰
Because I couldn’t find a cookie.
 
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