MOVIES: "Doubt" (contains spoilers)

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Hi everyone,
I also don’t like the constant battering our Church gets from the media, however, one of the ladies at my water aerobics class this morning saw this movie “Doubt” and she said she thought it was based on a true case and it actually is trying to get across what happens when false accusations are made and the the Nun is the one that does that and is the one in “Doubt” at the end.
May God bless us to also not jump to conclusions.👍
I think that at the end of the movie, it said it was fictional–“likeness to anyone living or dead…” etc.

I wonder if they cobbled together pieces of a few cases to make an interesting story.
 
Thank you KALT, I think you might be right, maybe the writers just compiled a bunch of stories to make a point. We all seem to hear or see what we want to, the lady at aerobics that thought it was a true story, might have been leaning in that direction. I guess that is human nature. Praise God He helps us through others.
 
I thought I’d add a few cents here.

I’m not a Catholic, and I went to go see this movie the first weekend it was out. (Because I’m not Christian and was kind of bored over the “holidays.”) I knew it was about the Catholic Church sort of, but didn’t know it was about molestation. So the whole movie was an interesting experience for me.

To start with, I didn’t think it cast the Catholic Church in a bad light at all. It’s a fear many people have, I think, that if a movie is made about their beliefs, and if people holding their beliefs are shown to be anything less than exemplary idealists, that it shows them “in a bad light.” And I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The only negative thing I saw in regards to the Church was that it did seem to be unbalanced regarding the role of women. It seemed like the men just run everything and can have fun while the women are supposed to be dull and boring. I thought that was weird.

The best parts of the movie, I thought, were the interesting sermons by Father Flynn. (Are they called homilies? I’m not sure.) Very graphic descriptions and poignant ways of delivering a message to the congregation.

I couldn’t take away from the film the opinion that Flynn was guilty or not or what he was accused of. But I think it is an interesting way to look at seeds of doubt and suspicion as being harmful for a whole society. If you can’t prove a person committed a crime, how can you charge him with it? If it’s false then you’ve tarnished the person’s reputation forever. (Incidentally, doing such a thing–i.e., charging a person without proof–is expressly forbidden in the Qur’an.)

And you can also see that even with the best intentions people make bad decisions.

Overall, I didn’t see the movie as being about the Catholic Church at all, but rather being a story about the danger of suspicion and doubt, with the Catholic Church being a vehicle through which to express the consequences of it.
 
I thought I’d add a few cents here.

I’m not a Catholic, and I went to go see this movie the first weekend it was out. (Because I’m not Christian and was kind of bored over the “holidays.”) I knew it was about the Catholic Church sort of, but didn’t know it was about molestation. So the whole movie was an interesting experience for me.

To start with, I didn’t think it cast the Catholic Church in a bad light at all. It’s a fear many people have, I think, that if a movie is made about their beliefs, and if people holding their beliefs are shown to be anything less than exemplary idealists, that it shows them “in a bad light.” And I don’t think that’s necessarily true. It’s nice to hear that from a non-Catholic. The only negative thing I saw in regards to the Church was that it did seem to be unbalanced regarding the role of women. It seemed like the men just run everything and can have fun while the women are supposed to be dull and boring. I thought that was weird. Well, I think that was more true of society as a whole in 1964.*** And religious sisters do take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience that are different from those which were taken by the priests and bishops shown in the film. There are also religious brothers (not seen in this movie) who would live lives more similar to the sisters and would be in similar positions of authority.***

The best parts of the movie, I thought, were the interesting sermons by Father Flynn. (Are they called homilies? I’m not sure.) Very graphic descriptions and poignant ways of delivering a message to the congregation.

I couldn’t take away from the film the opinion that Flynn was guilty or not or what he was accused of. But I think it is an interesting way to look at seeds of doubt and suspicion as being harmful for a whole society. If you can’t prove a person committed a crime, how can you charge him with it? If it’s false then you’ve tarnished the person’s reputation forever. (Incidentally, doing such a thing–i.e., charging a person without proof–is expressly forbidden in the Qur’an.) Yes. I said in another post on this thread (or was it something I said to my real life family?) that everyone in this story came out damaged in some way. Doubt and suspicion can be harmful in and of themselves. But if those suspicions are true (whether provable or not) and nothing is done stop the guilty party then there will likely be more victims that way. There is no simple answer.

And you can also see that even with the best intentions people make bad decisions.

Overall, I didn’t see the movie as being about the Catholic Church at all, but rather being a story about the danger of suspicion and doubt, with the Catholic Church being a vehicle through which to express the consequences of it.
 
I agree with you. I’ve seen it twice. (Am now convinced that the priest was supposed to be guilty)

The author, Shanley (?) said that his purpose was to show that doubt isn’t a bad thing. It’s important to pay attention to our doubts. They teach us. Inform us.

Wasn’t it interesting that the nun has no power to address her suspicions within the church. She knew that had had 3 poistions in 5 years (for non-Catholics – 3 positions in 5 years in not typical at all). She also knew that if he were transfered 2x before, they would only do it again. They would not address her concerns in the right way. She talked to the mons. and he transfered the priest and made him pastor at another parish. She wasn’t surprised.

My mil is in her late 90’s, and this is the way she dealt with her husband. She didn’t like the name her husband wanted for 2 of their kids, so she pretended she was naming the kids after other people. She wasn’t! She always came at things at an oblique angle with her husband. For many couples, this is just the way things were done. Say something to get something done.

The women did have power, but it wasn’t achieved by direct confrontation with men.

In the Catholic Church, it was the nuns who got stuff done. Hospitals, schools, charities, etc. were started and run by nuns. They sometimes (maybe most times) had to fight for the right, but they did it. And all within a societal setting (in the church and outside) of male/female separation in leadership.

When most women then didn’t go to college, and many didn’t go beyond 8th grade, nuns were well-educated. So, though they weren’t equal “power” partners in the Catholic Church, they did better than the average woman. (Good education. Respected work and leadership positions in hospitals, schools, charitable organizations. etc.)

I liked the priest’s line, “You answer to US!” He was definitely telling Sr A that there was nothing she could do to touch him if she went trough the proper channels - to other priests.

Did you get the impression that he was a mind game player?
I thought I’d add a few cents here.

I’m not a Catholic, and I went to go see this movie the first weekend it was out. (Because I’m not Christian and was kind of bored over the “holidays.”) I knew it was about the Catholic Church sort of, but didn’t know it was about molestation. So the whole movie was an interesting experience for me.

To start with, I didn’t think it cast the Catholic Church in a bad light at all. It’s a fear many people have, I think, that if a movie is made about their beliefs, and if people holding their beliefs are shown to be anything less than exemplary idealists, that it shows them “in a bad light.” And I don’t think that’s necessarily true. The only negative thing I saw in regards to the Church was that it did seem to be unbalanced regarding the role of women. It seemed like the men just run everything and can have fun while the women are supposed to be dull and boring. I thought that was weird.

The best parts of the movie, I thought, were the interesting sermons by Father Flynn. (Are they called homilies? I’m not sure.) Very graphic descriptions and poignant ways of delivering a message to the congregation.

I couldn’t take away from the film the opinion that Flynn was guilty or not or what he was accused of. But I think it is an interesting way to look at seeds of doubt and suspicion as being harmful for a whole society. If you can’t prove a person committed a crime, how can you charge him with it? If it’s false then you’ve tarnished the person’s reputation forever. (Incidentally, doing such a thing–i.e., charging a person without proof–is expressly forbidden in the Qur’an.)

And you can also see that even with the best intentions people make bad decisions.

Overall, I didn’t see the movie as being about the Catholic Church at all, but rather being a story about the danger of suspicion and doubt, with the Catholic Church being a vehicle through which to express the consequences of it.
 
I probably will not see this movie. I’m tired of the Catholic priest jokes and Hollywood bashing anything that is Christian.
Hollywood doesn’t get it. If they made a positive movie about a priest, nun, saint, or pope, they would make tons of money.
I’d rather see Bing Crosby in The Bells of Saint Mary’s then watch this movie.
I changed my mind and went to see the movie. Love it.
I cried when Father hugged the boy in the hallway after getting his books knocked out of his hand.
Maybe I loved this movie due to they made the priest the way priest should be. My best friend is a priest and we hug all the time. It’s sad how things have gone.
 
I saw it yesterday and loved it. It was intelligent and made me think. What a study in human nature!

And the acting was top notch. Meryl Streep was her usual 10-out-of-10 self. There’s no one alive today who can pull off an expression like Streep can.

If you saw it, what did you think? (Without giving away too much to those who haven’t seen it.)

If you haven’t seen it, do you plan to?
I saw it and in general I liked it. This was not an anti-Catholic film. It’s a sympathetic film.
 
Wow, I never heard of this movie, but I also, probably won’t see it. I seriously doubt (excuse my pun) that many people will line up to see this, especially if released during the holiday. We can all use more uplifting and inspirational films right now…
IT was a great play. Since both the protagonist and antagonist represent the Church, I didn’nt view it as particularly condeming the Church.
 
IT was a great play. Since both the protagonist and antagonist represent the Church, I didn’nt view it as particularly condeming the Church.
I never thought of it that way, but I totally agree with you.
 
I was watching the new “Christmas” movies coming out this season, this one caught my eye because it’s about a Catholic church in the 60’s. It was based on a critcally acclaimed play but they changed the end a bit and they show more things.
I am disapointed that it’s another “did the priest molest the boy” movie, especially this time of year, but I realize that movies aren’t made for us and they have the right to do it. We also have the right not to see it, although the performances are supposed to be great.
I wish the church didn’t give the film/play makers so much material, but that is what brings people in…I will probably not see it, at least at the movies, but I hope for a more heart-warming, loving film to go too.
variety.com/review/VE1117938945.html?categoryid=3266&cs=1
I really liked Doubt. A lot.

Right now, we’re faced with what was a massive sex abuse scandal - a much larger number of cases than many of us would have thought plausible even ten years ago, and what was possibly a majority of US bishops involved in some form of cover-up, plus countless more Catholic priests, nuns, and laity. The question I’ve had, and what I think a lot of other people have had is, “how did this happen? Why, if there were credible accusations of abuse, would a religious person put the offender in a position with children?”

I liked this movie because it dealt with that issue head-on. It didn’t just make some snarky “priests are molesters” joke like a lot of the media have done - it actually put you in the shoes of someone who had reason to suspect, but lacked the evidence to prove, sex abuse by a priest.

It was a pretty straightforward case, with all its complexities: a charming, theologically liberal priest; homosexually-inclined minors, of an age to feel sexual attractions, but hardly old enough to know how to respond to those appropriately; and rumors and allegations, with little concrete evidence.

Given those facts, it’s really easy to see why you would have people (like Meryl Streep’s character) reporting abuse, and not having their fears being acted upon. I was shocked when I realized that the movie’s protagonist (if there really was one) was a strict, “pre-Vatican II” nun - and that they showed that even though she was tough, she loved and cared about her students.

The movie wasn’t perfect (they made the priests seem more sexist than I think they are or even were), but it did a good job of showing some of the institutional problems which exist without going overboard. We should be grateful to even getting a fair public hearing like that.

Frankly, if they took a case like Fr. John Geoghan or Fr. Paul Shanley, they could have made the Church look *much *worse without even making anything up (there, they knew of the abuse, and not only did nothing, but facilitated more abuses by moving the offending priests around and lying about it).

So I know the film isn’t perfect, and that it covers an area we’re sensitive about, and that the actors involved are likely not huge fans of the Catholic Church, but it’s still a great movie, which fairly presents the view from the ground during a dramatic period in our Church in America’s history. I think it’s in the interest of the Church for us Catholics to address this issue head-on, and not to whitewash it [haven’t we seen how disastrously that’s turned out in places like Boston?], but to show that it was a morally complex issue that was handled poorly under some pretty novel circumstances we should all pray never to find ourselves in, and in spite of the well-intentioned efforts of many good people.
 
I saw Doubt this weekend and I thought it was good. I don’t think it “slams” the Catholic faith I think it shows how even the nuns and priests are human and may be seriously flawed. I think it shows a possibility of why these priests were perhaps moved around instead of being defrocked and charged with a crime. I don’t think what the Catholic Church’s priesthood or nuns are guilty of should be tucked away like it doesn’t exist. It is a topic that as free to explore as any other. We are not a spotless religion and I think to pretend otherwise is to deny the truth and repeat history. Doubt simply shows the flaw. It doesn’t slam the Catholic Church or the faith. It’s not the Da Vinci Code.
 
I saw Doubt this weekend and I thought it was good. I don’t think it “slams” the Catholic faith I think it shows how even the nuns and priests are human and may be seriously flawed. I think it shows a possibility of why these priests were perhaps moved around instead of being defrocked and charged with a crime. I don’t think what the Catholic Church’s priesthood or nuns are guilty of should be tucked away like it doesn’t exist. It is a topic that as free to explore as any other. We are not a spotless religion and I think to pretend otherwise is to deny the truth and repeat history. Doubt simply shows the flaw. It doesn’t slam the Catholic Church or the faith. It’s not the Da Vinci Code.
I agree - and I think it shows how difficult it is to believe that someone so good, so kind, so loving could be capeable of something so horrible? I’m not even sure he did it - I just can’t believe it beause he just doesn’t match what I picture when I picture evil. Looks can be deceiving. I think THAT is a lesson in itself.

The first time I say it I thought no way. The second time I decided he may have done it. 😊

But I have my doubts.
 
I just wanted to add that Hoffman, in an interview with NPR, asked the author of Doubt if the priest was guily so he would know how to ‘play’ the role.

The writer said yes.
 
I just wanted to add that Hoffman, in an interview with NPR, asked the author of Doubt if the priest was guily so he would know how to ‘play’ the role.

The writer said yes.
Oh no! Is this true!!! Say it isn’t so!!! :nope:
 
Greetings!
OK- I just listened to the interview myself. He doesn’t come out and say ‘yes’ but he is very ambiguous about it. I feel like he played the role like he was guilty and Hoffman knows exactly what the truth about it is. Hoffman said he needed to know for sure whether the priest did it so he found out in order to fill in the history. He actually said that he would never tell if the priest was guilty for sure because he didn’t want to destroy the experience for the audience of doubt in ‘Doubt’. He had to know because he’s playing the man. I’m paraphrasing, of course.
My personal interpretation is that he was guilty because of how Hoffman played the role.
I apologize for misleading you (and everyone else!).
Jen
 
Greetings!
OK- I just listened to the interview myself. He doesn’t come out and say ‘yes’ but he is very ambiguous about it. I feel like he played the role like he was guilty and Hoffman knows exactly what the truth about it is. Hoffman said he needed to know for sure whether the priest did it so he found out in order to fill in the history. He actually said that he would never tell if the priest was guilty for sure because he didn’t want to destroy the experience for the audience of doubt in ‘Doubt’. He had to know because he’s playing the man. I’m paraphrasing, of course.
My personal interpretation is that he was guilty because of how Hoffman played the role.
I apologize for misleading you (and everyone else!).
Jen
What a relief. If that’s the case then I’m going back to what I orignally thought: *of course *the good Priest was innocent.

Probably.
 
Wow…what a great movie, it’s in my top 5 of 08, that’s for sure.
🙂
 
I thought this movie was simply amazing.

Too tired to elaborate but maybe I will later.

I felt like crying for an hour afterward, I was shaking.

“I have doubts … I have doubts…”

Amazing regardless of your religion.
I do not think it portrayed Catholicism in a negative fashion. (I’m not Catholic and I had no negative feelings towards it at the end of the movie.)

Other parts I liked:
Contrast b/w nuns/preists

introducing “secular songs” in the christmas celebration.

Amy adams was phenomenal, as good as streep

Hoffman asking streep - “have you ever done something wrong” and the whole soliliqy following that.

streep telling amy adams to put the random pope picture on her board - so funny.

Streep’s hate of ball-point pens.

I agree with the previous poster that liked streep. I also think she was the one that truly cared for the children and their future.
 
Did you go in thinking that he was probably guilty or probably innocent?

I had no idea that the guilt or innocence question wouldn’t be answered. And, though I was disturbed by Fr Flynn’s behavior and explanations, I still expected the movie to end with his being cleared. I thought the “game” the writer would play with us was that we would think he was guilty, too, and then find out there was a good explanation for everything.

So I went in expecting him to be innocent, and looking for evidence of it. I was looking hard for things that would prove that Sr A was wrong.

What about you? Did you go iin thinking he was probably innocent?
I went in thinking guilty - I came out confused, but moved, and shaking, “doubt”. very apty titled. I liked that the movie ended up being more about the theme than the subject matter (doubt/certainty rather than the actual alleged abuse)

If the writer said he did it, I guess he did, but I do feel that the character was a good man, but an imperfect one.
 
I really enjoyed the picture. Part of it is because I inhabited that place and time as a student and remember it quite well. The movie is a lot about the power and authority in a particular parish.

And when I was in a very similar parochial school, my father had the same reaction: “I’m not going to any school – I have to work.” In those day parents turned kids over to the nuns and expected them to handle the whole educational bit. Its far different now.

My wife pointed out that if the priest had a clear conscience, he would have called the nun’s bluff about the previous parish. Interesting.

I didn’t find the movie to be anti-Catholic at all.
 
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