Moving from Roman Rite to Eastern Rite

[Craisin]

I am just curious to see if anyone has grown up in or initially converted to Roman Rite Catholicism, but eventually switched to practicing Eastern Rite Catholicism. If so, what are the reasons you officially decided on becoming a practicing Eastern Rite Catholic?

Thanks!

 

[Chaldean_Rite]

I am just curious to see if anyone has grown up in or initially converted to Roman Rite Catholicism, but eventually switched to practicing Eastern Rite Catholicism. If so, what are the reasons you officially decided on becoming a practicing Eastern Rite Catholic?

Thanks!

I don’t exactly fit that equation, but I was *raised *in the Latin Church and did go to Catholic school as well. It wasn’t until my mindset became liturgical that I discovered the beauty of my own Chaldean Catholic Church.

As they say, the East has its strong points in liturgy and the West has its strong points in theology. Anyway you look at it, you can absorb western theology and liturgy and be completely eastern, and vice versa.

 

[samcarter14]

I was raised Roman rite, converted to Orthodoxy, and am now in the process of reverting through the Byzantine-Ruthenian Rite. Basically, i was drawn to Orthodoxy through the Divine Liturgy, and didn’t do enough research about the Byzantine Rite in my town.

I have told my story before on this forum; you can PM me if you want details.

 

[gloria97000]

I was raised Roman Rite but have been with the Maronites for years now, though not canonically transferred. I found

1. The Liturgical prayers to be very poetic
2. The community to be strong and welcoming
3. The Lebanese to be great to children
4. A place where it wasn’t strange at all to be young and coming to special devotions
5. The people to be more unified than most Roman Catholics in the practice of their faith and its social teachings
6. Beautiful music
7. Priests who were accessible, true leaders, and truly involved in their community
8. Priests who never wavered on their reverence for the sacraments, and who weren’t afraid to give advice that might be countercultural.
9. People who love the sacraments as much as their priests do
   Are you in an Eastern Church?

 

[German_Melkite]

I was a cradle Roman and practiced into college years, but the changes in the liturgy left me with an empty feeling. It was right after the reforms of Vatican II were being fully integrated. I suppose for many those changes were good and right - but for me there was a sense of loss. I attended a puppet Mass (communion actually give out by a hand puppet) and an informal Mass of people sitting in a circle and passing around a loaf of French bread. While the celebration of the Mass improved as years went by - I just did not feel the Sunday service was directed to God. It seemed that the fellowship of man had become central to what had been the worship of the great and awesome Creator.

Then I discovered the Melkite liturgy.

I actually felt as if God, himself, was there in the church. The consecration really brought Jesus the Lord into the room. I felt the presence of God. The Divine Liturgy was not a show for an audience, but a reverential adoration of the Savior. I took my breath away and gave me back my faith.

Later and completely different incident solidified my feelings about the Divine Liturgy. One Sunday an infant giggled, and yowled, and whined at the top of her lungs all through this solemn and holy ritual. After the service over coffee in the church hall, I remarked to a regular parishioner, “All that caring-on was distracting and I would have been embarrassed if that had been my child disturbing the whole congregation.” The elderly woman scowled disapprovingly and said, “How dare you feel that way. God made that little voice and He must surely love it. That baby was just expressing her feelings in the face of God. Her voice is as pleasing as any of our prayers!”

At that point I realized - this was the faith I wanted to emulate.

I went through the formal process of changing my rite and I believe the greatest gift God has ever given me was the blessing of finding the Eastern Churches and the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom.

 

[Aramis]

I stopped practicing the faith for a little over a year. I was examining the Russian Orthodox, but couldn’t get over the petrine role laid out in the dialogue at the end of the gospel of John.

I’d been to the byzantine parish a few times with Dad, who is a Roman Rite Deacon. We (Dad and I) were going to a local iconography show at an art gallery, and ran into the Byzantine Pastor and his head cantor. I started going. I was on-and-off again there, and learning to cantor, for much of the following 15 years. I then moved out to Eagle River, and returned to Roman praxis. I was missing something, and wasn’t certain what. I mean, most of the canon was being sung, very few liturgical abuses*, a doctoral candidate theologian as pastor…

We stopped in for Vigil at the St. Nick’s. My wife noticed how immediately my disposition was changed that week.

I felt at home again.

Beyond that, tho’, is the thing I was missing: Theology in your face in the DLs of Sts John and Basil. The propers provide a strong and powerful sense of Byzantine Theology, right there, in your face, every week.

The Latin propers outside the mass (specifically for hours) do have most of the theologizing, but the propers tend to be less theology, and less in depth.

I’d served the DLM as a youth, as well as the OF of the Roman Mass. The “Traditional” mass holds no appeal for me, and is even less useful for instructing the faithful than the OF, as the propers are in Latin…

Further, the symbolism in the Roman Rite liturgies just never resonated with me. The Byzantine does.

In any case, I found what I was seeking in the Ruthenian Church. Theology in my face, a beautiful and vernacular liturgy. The symbolism of the cycle of tones and the cycle of the liturgical year. The use of Iconography.

It all just clicks for me.

 

[Brian777]

I stopped practicing the faith for a little over a year. I was examining the Russian Orthodox, but couldn’t get over the petrine role laid out in the dialogue at the end of the gospel of John.

I’d been to the byzantine parish a few times with Dad, who is a Roman Rite Deacon. We (Dad and I) were going to a local iconography show at an art gallery, and ran into the Byzantine Pastor and his head cantor. I started going. I was on-and-off again there, and learning to cantor, for much of the following 15 years. I then moved out to Eagle River, and returned to Roman praxis. I was missing something, and wasn’t certain what. I mean, most of the canon was being sung, very few liturgical abuses*, a doctoral candidate theologian as pastor…

We stopped in for Vigil at the St. Nick’s. My wife noticed how immediately my disposition was changed that week.

I felt at home again.

Beyond that, tho’, is the thing I was missing: Theology in your face in the DLs of Sts John and Basil. The propers provide a strong and powerful sense of Byzantine Theology, right there, in your face, every week.

The Latin propers outside the mass (specifically for hours) do have most of the theologizing, but the propers tend to be less theology, and less in depth.

I’d served the DLM as a youth, as well as the OF of the Roman Mass. The “Traditional” mass holds no appeal for me, and is even less useful for instructing the faithful than the OF, as the propers are in Latin…
Further, the symbolism in the Roman Rite liturgies just never resonated with me. The Byzantine does.

In any case, I found what I was seeking in the Ruthenian Church. Theology in my face, a beautiful and vernacular liturgy. The symbolism of the cycle of tones and the cycle of the liturgical year. The use of Iconography.

It all just clicks for me.

aren’t the Eastern liturgies in Greek or another eastern language?

Aslo thankyou to anyone who moved from Roman Rite to an eastern Rite and not to Orthodoxy, nothing wrong with them except that they are in schism, so thankyou for staying in the communion with See of Peter. God bless you all, our Church is strenthened greatly by your traditions and witness.

 

[wynd]

aren’t the Eastern liturgies in Greek or another eastern language?

Depends on the parish.

 

[German_Melkite]

Among the Melkites, the services are always in the “vernacular.” So a very ethnic parish with newer immigrants may have all of the services primarily Arabic, while a more established community will be some blend of English and Arabic. If ethnic parishes are going to survive, they must speak to the people - so fully English services are common. The Eastern Church has so much to offer, it must never be closed behind any “Old World” language that excludes others from full participation. We Melkites even have some services in Spanish to reach out to that community.

 

[malphono]

Among the Melkites, the services are always in the “vernacular.” So a very ethnic parish with newer immigrants may have all of the services primarily Arabic, while a more established community will be some blend of English and Arabic. If ethnic parishes are going to survive, they must speak to the people - so fully English services are common. The Eastern Church has so much to offer, it must never be closed behind any “Old World” language that excludes others from full participation. We Melkites even have some services in Spanish to reach out to that community.

This a bit off-topic, but I’ll comment anyway. The thought here is rather similar to something from another recent thread, and so is my comment.

Personally, I am a firm believer in the preservation of the proper, traditional liturgical language in all Churches, whether it’s Greek, Coptic, Latin, Old Slavonic, Ge’ez, or whatever.

There are people who fear traditional liturgical languages just because of the normal fear of the unknown. (This is true in the the Latin Rite EF (and even the Latin Rite OF done in Latin) as well as in Eastern and Oriental Churches.) It’s something new that they may have not experienced before. But once they do and become become familiar with it, it often happens that those fears vanish and are replaced with a sense of understanding and appreciation.

IMHO, total abandonment of liturgical language serves to de-nature both the Particular Church and the Church as a whole. In the East and Orient, I see it as a form of “Latinization” in that it follows the wrongheaded post-conciliar notion of “vernacular for everything and tradition be damned.”

 

[Brian777]

Hmmm…yes it should optimally be a mixture of the traditional language and the local vernacular. but i digress. sorry.

 

[Aramis]

aren’t the Eastern liturgies in Greek or another eastern language?

Aslo thankyou to anyone who moved from Roman Rite to an eastern Rite and not to Orthodoxy, nothing wrong with them except that they are in schism, so thankyou for staying in the communion with See of Peter. God bless you all, our Church is strenthened greatly by your traditions and witness.

not in Ruthenian Catholic nor Russian Orthodox parishes.

Most eastern liturgies are done in the vernaular or a closely related liturgical language, tho’ in the 20th century, the norm was the liturgical language for Eastern Catholics in the US.

Church slavonic is close enough to the vernacular of most slavic languages as to be mutually intelligible; Russian Church Slavonic is different, more Russified, but still not unintelligible to Russian speakers, nor even most other northern Slavic language speakers. It’s akin to 1400’s english vs modern.

The RO locally use a mix of languages; a few priests and parishes speak one of the native dialects; most of the urban parishes use english. Some prayers are done in Russian Church Slavonic, but seldom all. A few parishes in predominantly russian speaking communities use purely Russian Church Slavonic.

The local ruthenian parish uses English almost exclusively.

 

[Kielbasi]

Most of the folks I’ve known who have moved from Roman to Eastern , or vice versa, do so for the love of their spouses.

There is a lot of intermarriage between Romans and Easterns, particularly here in the US and other western countries, and most people have only time and concentration to attend one church and have their children attend catechism in a single parish.

 

[Maronites]

Greetings, I converted to Catholicism in 11/98 and my husband returned at the same time. He was originally a Maronite but the Maronite Church at the time he left (in late high school, mid 70s) was very latinized. After a little over a year going to the Indult Mass (an hour away from our home), we visited his childhood Maronite parish (an hour away also). Ah the beauty of the Divine Liturgy. The Church had since removed the kneelers and added icons. We are were of a Latin mentality and began with the help of the priest to learn more about the Maronite Rite. We stand instead of kneel, we bow profusely instead of genuflect, we have icons (more so) instead of statues. One is not better than the other but each has it’s place in a Rite.

Our Divine Liturgy has Syriac and English with canting throughout the Service. Our quorbono/book of offering contains Syriac, phonetic (for Syriac pronunciation) and English venacular. If one only speaks Syriac/Arabic they can follow, if they only speak English they can follow.

As to the child crying during the Divine Liturgy…we say take them out “if” they persist. God may enjoy their voice but I wonder if He wants the rest of the congregation to hear the words of the priest. I must say, we “want” to listen to the prayers and join in them. My husband is now a subdeacon and both of us teach MCF (Maronite Christian Formation).

No matter what Catholic Church you decide to go to for worshiping our Lord, remain Catholic and in communion with the See of Peter. Always learn and grow in the Faith.

A.M.D.G. (ok it’s Latin but I like the motto)
Maronites

 

[Brian777]

Greetings, I converted to Catholicism in 11/98 and my husband returned at the same time. He was originally a Maronite but the Maronite Church at the time he left (in late high school, mid 70s) was very latinized. After a little over a year going to the Indult Mass (an hour away from our home), we visited his childhood Maronite parish (an hour away also). Ah the beauty of the Divine Liturgy. The Church had since removed the kneelers and added icons. We are were of a Latin mentality and began with the help of the priest to learn more about the Maronite Rite. We stand instead of kneel, we bow profusely instead of genuflect, we have icons (more so) instead of statues. One is not better than the other but each has it’s place in a Rite.

Our Divine Liturgy has Syriac and English with canting throughout the Service. Our quorbono/book of offering contains Syriac, phonetic (for Syriac pronunciation) and English venacular. If one only speaks Syriac/Arabic they can follow, if they only speak English they can follow.

As to the child crying during the Divine Liturgy…we say take them out “if” they persist. God may enjoy their voice but I wonder if He wants the rest of the congregation to hear the words of the priest. I must say, we “want” to listen to the prayers and join in them. My husband is now a subdeacon and both of us teach MCF (Maronite Christian Formation).

No matter what Catholic Church you decide to go to for worshiping our Lord, remain Catholic and in communion with the See of Peter. Always learn and grow in the Faith.

A.M.D.G. (ok it’s Latin but I like the motto)
Maronites

Amen! Alleluia!

just curious, but i thought i heard that the council of nicaea mandated that all rites must have the congragationknell at the consecratio(i guess this wouldnt work for some rites as ive heard that some of them do not have an actual consecration)

 

[Diak]

just curious, but i thought i heard that the council of nicaea mandated that all rites must have the congragationknell at the consecratio

Actually the Council decreed that they should not kneel for Sundays and “during the season of Pentecost”.

 

[Cluny]

(i guess this wouldnt work for some rites as ive heard that some of them do not have an actual consecration)

I don’t know where you got this idea.

The consecration takes place in ALL the classical Liturgies.

Now, the Words of Institution in a narrative form do not appear in the classical form of the Liturgy of Addai and Mari as used by the Assyrian Church of the East, but it’s obvious to anyone when the Anaphora is studied that they intend to accomplish the Mystery of the Eucharist (or, as Western theology puts it, confect the Eucharist).

The Byzantine Liturgy of the Presanctified is basically Vespers followed by Communion from the Reserved Mysteries.

 

[Brian777]

Actually the Council decreed that they should not kneel for Sundays and “during the season of Pentecost”.

really? well that is interesting. It would just seem second nature to me to kneel when my Lord is present in the Eucharist. Do you have any more info as to why this was decreed?

 

[samcarter14]

really? well that is interesting. It would just seem second nature to me to kneel when my Lord is present in the Eucharist. Do you have any more info as to why this was decreed?

I don’t know why it was decreed, but the way it has been explained to me by an Eastern Rite priest is this: In the West, kneeling is seen as a posture of reverence, whereas in the East, standing is a posture of reverence. Hence, the reason we stand throughout most or all of our liturgy.

In the East, kneeling is seen as a posture of penitence, which is not neccessary on Sundays, when the Resurrection is celebrated and our sins are washed clean through the blood of Christ. There is more kneeling (actually, prostration) in the Eastern Rites during Lent, but still not on Sundays.

 

[Ungcsertez]

I don’t know why it was decreed, but the way it has been explained to me by an Eastern Rite priest is this: In the West, kneeling is seen as a posture of reverence, whereas in the East, standing is a posture of reverence. Hence, the reason we stand throughout most or all of our liturgy.

In the East, kneeling is seen as a posture of penitence, which is not neccessary on Sundays, when the Resurrection is celebrated and our sins are washed clean through the blood of Christ. There is more kneeling (actually, prostration) in the Eastern Rites during Lent, but still not on Sundays.

Can we all go back to giving the Eastern Particular Churches in union w/Rome their dignity and refrain from saying “the Eastern Rites”?

U-C