Moving on after porn

[PPeterson]

jeez louise guys, this isn’t the most private forum in the world. I would recommend thinking before talking about stuff on here like your age, hair color, children’s ages, region where you live, etc etc all in one thread about the details of what’s going on with you and your spouse.

 

[WillyAL]

Leave him, take the kids, sell the farm, accuse him of infidelity…because of a pic the OP found on her husband’s phone? Absurd. I bet there is not a priest in the world who would counsel that course of action.

 

[Farmerswife27]

jeez louise guys, this isn’t the most private forum in the world. I would recommend thinking before talking about stuff on here like your age, hair color, children’s ages, region where you live, etc etc all in one thread about the details of what’s going on with you and your spouse.

How could anyone discern who I am from those details? That info describes tens of thousands of women. And why would they care, obviously I’m not that special or attractive or I wouldn’t be in this fix!

 

[Farmerswife27]

Leave him, take the kids, sell the farm, accuse him of infidelity…because of a pic the OP found on her husband’s phone? Absurd. I bet there is not a priest in the world who would counsel that course of action.

That was my initial knee jerk reaction to this mess. Just like I told everyone here, I was an emotional wreck with no one to turn to, so I came here and thought I could find some commiseration, prayers, advice… I’m not leaving him over this unless I find its continuing. Then, I’m just not sure how I’ll handle things. I love him more than life, that’s why this hurt so much that I came here in the first place. I’ve never been through anything like this in my marriage… It’s scary.

 

[LongingSoul]

Leave him, take the kids, sell the farm, accuse him of infidelity…because of a pic the OP found on her husband’s phone? Absurd. I bet there is not a priest in the world who would counsel that course of action.

You didn’t link to the post that suggested all that?

The reason that porn thrives is because there is strong undercurrent in society, that’s not even fully acknowledged by a lot of Christian men… that pornography isn’t that bad. They feel the problem is the fault in a wifes reaction.

By the time a wife is so turned off and repulsed by the continuing behaviour, a lot of men have already ‘sold their soul’ to porn leaving nothing but a wasteland of a marriage or no marriage at all.

The USCCB will be putting out a statement soon regarding this scourge which has exploded with the advent of the internet and hopefully at least Catholic men can behold it as enemy to marriage that it is and not cling to an ‘its not that bad’ secret theory.

This article from Covenant Eyes is really terrific. I found it the last time there was a husband pornography addiction thread. Really worth reading.

The Effects of Pornography on Wives and Marriages

 

[Farmerswife27]

You didn’t link to the post that suggested all that?

The reason that porn thrives is because there is strong undercurrent in society, that’s not even fully acknowledged by a lot of Christian men… that pornography isn’t that bad. They feel the problem is the fault in a wifes reaction.

By the time a wife is so turned off and repulsed by the continuing behaviour, a lot of men have already ‘sold their soul’ to porn leaving nothing but a wasteland of a marriage or no marriage at all.

The USCCB will be putting out a statement soon regarding this scourge which has exploded with the advent of the internet and hopefully at least Catholic men can behold it as enemy to marriage that it is and not cling to an ‘its not that bad’ secret theory.

This article from Covenant Eyes is really terrific. I found it the last time there was a husband pornography addiction thread. Really worth reading.

The Effects of Pornography on Wives and Marriages

Thank you for your kind words, and also for that article. Excellent read, I will share this with him later.

 

[mavdragon]

I would suggest watching some youtube videos by Jason Evert and Matt Fradd and see if your husband would be willing to watch them with you or on his own.

I have learned a great deal from them. I used to have your husbands attitude, but now I only want to show my wife how much she is loved by God, and how her beauty can change the world.

Whatever you do, don’t criticize your husband. Use I statements. I feel unloved, betrayed, and lose respect for you when you view pornographic material and I cannot see myself becoming intimate with you until you get clean of this forever.

www.integrityrestored.com

St. Mary of Egypt pray for us.

 

[Farmerswife27]

I would suggest watching some youtube videos by Jason Evert and Matt Fradd and see if your husband would be willing to watch them with you or on his own.

I have learned a great deal from them. I used to have your husbands attitude, but now I only want to show my wife how much she is loved by God, and how her beauty can change the world.

Whatever you do, don’t criticize your husband. Use I statements. I feel unloved, betrayed, and lose respect for you when you view pornographic material and I cannot see myself becoming intimate with you until you get clean of this forever.

www.integrityrestored.com

St. Mary of Egypt pray for us.

Thank you, we certainly will look into the videos. I also read a couple articles on integrity restored and tried calling their office for remote sessions on Skype. I’m not sure how “on board” DH is with therapy but I really think we need to talk with someone. Preferably who has gone through this and can relate. He claims he quit, he’s done, he’s not been tempted once and I want so badly to believe him but… My gut says its not that simple.

I did everything you told me not to, accused him, made this all his problem. I will try your approach next time.

I only wish he would answer the one question I keep asking him and myself-- why???

 

[klutch]

May the peace of Our Lord be with you, may the pain in your heart turn to joy. You would like an answer to why your husband would do something like this. My guess would be that he doesn’t know what really lies at the root of this disorder. In this age we do a poor job of contemplating what it means to be human, what our sexuality is, and how the father of lies distorts this reality. I pray that what I write is understandable and beneficial.
Genesis tells us we are created in the image and likeness of God. What is the image and likeness of God? The best word we have to describe the essence of God is: God is Love. God creates out of love. God loves his creation solely because it exists.
What does that mean for us, in His image and likeness? We are created to love and to be loved. What does love mean? Love means willing/desiring what is good for the person we love solely because he/she exists. We find enjoyment “creating” things ie art, music, buildings, meals, clothing, etc. We typically have some affection for the things we “create”. All these things we “create” utilize material that God has given us. On the other hand God created all things from nothing. Few of us recognize that at the core of our being we desire to participate in creating something from nothing. God loves us so much and desires for us to be so close to Him that he gave us a way to participate with him in the creation of something from nothing, something that will last forever. Through the marital embrace we have the opportunity to cooperate with God in the creation of a brand new everlasting soul. This soul didn’t exist previously and now will exist for all eternity. The body originates from material from the man and the woman, but the soul that animates the body is directly created by God. At the core of our being we know that within this human act between a man and a woman the same awesome power that created all that exists is active. Our being knows this even if we are not conscious of this. We are connected to the beginning of all things. Outside of the Eucharist, this act connects us most closely to our Father in heaven. I contend that this explains why the sexual urge is so strong and why the father of lies works so incessantly to distort this gift from God. The devil recognizes how this wonderful gift connects us to our loving Father who he hates and redirects it to improper ends. This is why sins in this area are so damaging to our relationships with each other and with God. The heart of each person knows that the sexual act is to be a physical manifestation of the gift of complete self of one person to another. Because of the power and purpose of the sexual act it demands exclusivity, being open to the natural result (children), and to be an act of willing the good of the beloved. Because of the result of original sin, how our sexuality connects us with God and each other and what our responsibility is with a gift of this magnitude is obscured. If we don’t understand a gift how can we know what to do with it? When we don’t understand a gift we are easily misled in what to do with it. When we are ill equipped to handle great power we often misuse it for our own immediate gratification. On the surface we don’t understand why that is wrong. Deep inside we do know it is wrong, since God’s law is written on our hearts, but we often suppress or ignore this gentle voice and listen to the louder voice or our selfish narcissistic desires. For further reflection I would urge your husband to read several papal writings including Humanae Vitae, Familiaris Consortio, Casti Cannubii, Love and Responsibility, Ephesians 5 – from the perspective of how Christ loved His Church. A final note, regardless of what you see in the mirror the changes of a woman’s body from bearing children are physical manifestation of the love she has given, these make her exceedingly beautiful.

 

[white_sheep]

I didn’t read every post, but I am happy to see you have calmed down and know that you overreacted. Porn generally, but definitely his mild use of it, is absolutely not a reason to deny the marriage debt, divorce your husband, or get seriously upset. Mad, sure. I can see that. Tell him what you think and that you expect him not to ever look at it. Then put it in the past. Men struggle with purity issues and we will all fail sometimes, even if it is just in our own head.

All of this scheming and conniving to put him in rehab, or take him to therapy, or get accountability software is a bad idea. That is a terrible way to treat your husband. Just terrible. Leaving this between him and his confessor is a good way to start on all of this. If it develops into a real ongoing problem, then maybe look into further options. It’s like he had one beer and you’re sending him to AA. His problem isn’t at that level for one thing.

It also seems to me that there may be two issues that fall on you. It isn’t for me to decide or argue with you about. You may not be meeting his needs for intimacy, that was the first thing he said to you when you found out, after all. We should usually render the debt when asked for it, even when we just “know” and aren’t necessarily asked for it, keep our spouse’s needs in mind and be generous, and for exactly this reason, to help our spouse not fall into impurity. That’s basically a synopsis of Church teaching. Secondly, part of the issue may be that you are insecure or unhappy with your appearance. You are the only one who can change either your weight or how you feel about your appearance if that is the issue. He seems to still want you, so look on the bright side. My wife always runs herself down about her appearance, and it isn’t helpful. I find her attractive, why can’t she just be happy? That’s my take on it.

I hope you find this all helpful.

 

[white_sheep]

I would further suggest that you focus on the marriage basics and the Catholic basics. Treat each other with love and respect. Frequent the sacraments and pray more, especially together. Maybe say a daily rosary together. He’s a farmer, right? So then he sets his own schedule and there is no reason you couldn’t catch a daily mass on a regular basis. One extra daily mass a week can make a lot of difference.

 

[Farmerswife27]

Thank you for your reply. I quit writing on this post because I figured it was beating a dead horse. That said, we both work full time and then some so daily Mass is unfortunately out. The farm is our supplemental income. We have not been able to turn it loose to run full time, yet.

The biggest problem that I have, is here lately he doesn’t seem to think he comitted mortal sin. He agrees that it was wrong because it hurt me but claims that he didn’t think it would (If this was the case, why did he hide it with an incognito web browser? He hurt me a decade ago with this and knew it, I can only pray he only recently relapsed into it like he claims). Regardless, he does not think he needs to go to confession for this. He still thinks it is “just some pictures” and that it is “no big deal.”. He does not want counseling. He just says he quit and he’s done and that’s that. I do not trust him yet. I am NOT taking off the accountability software until I can. He needs to earn my trust back. That said, I am trying to go on about my life as if this didn’t happen to the best of my ability. I am trying to be more intimate, but it’s difficult when we are trying to avoid pregnancy. If we were not Catholic, I would be on birth control, and this would be a non-issue.

The good news? Now he is at least entertaining the idea of doing something with me too help put my mind to rest. He is considering a retrouville retreat " if that’s what would make me happy.". I think it would be a start but there are months before there’s any in my area. I am NOT having much luck getting him to read articles or books or watch youtube videos anymore he is beginning to become stubborn about this. I don’t really blame him I guess. I want to put it behind me as well which is why I think some form of therapy would be helpful, if only for me to understand why he did it. I wish I could convince him to go to confession but I don’t want to keep badgering him about it. It isn’t really my place. Thank you again.

 

[Eddie_Mac]

Tell your husband to think about what the term “avoid the near occasion of sin” means in the Act of Contrition. My confessor has been working on this with me and my past with porn. Your husband must make changes if this is going to work. Most important, Our Lady will protect him if he asks.

 

[Farmerswife27]

Tell your husband to think about what the term “avoid the near occasion of sin” means in the Act of Contrition. My confessor has been working on this with me and my past with porn. Your husband must make changes if this is going to work. Most important, Our Lady will protect him if he asks.

My DH, while Catholic, isn’t “that Catholic” if that makes sense. He humors me, he was baptised and confirmed before we married. He attends mass but modt likely wouldn’t without me. He believes but wasn’t raised in the church so this is a lot more than he thought. He doesn’t understand nfp and other things and his view of porn being “something to do when you’re bored” is likely related.

I’ve been troubled all weekend about another post saying I should change (lose weight, have more relations) …to make him happy and his eyes not wander. I just get bothered… Yes, im guikty, I’m 15# heavier now than when we married. Things aren’t like they were before kids, things droop and lose their original shape… I can’t change that. I’ve been desperately trying to lose weight/keep it off for years, I’m down over 50# from where I was a few years ago, after our second child came, so Im kind of insulted at the idea if him needing me to lose that last (very stubborn)15# to make him want only me again. I need better motivation to lose it than “so my superficial husband will look at me instead of other women.” I don’t really think that’s the issue. I don’t think it’s lack of intimacy as the marital act…he has gone much longer than a week while i was figuring out my fertile days. I don’t know what it is, but I’m trying to do everything I can to change. It doesn’t take the hurt away and I feel like talking about it leads to fights which have escalated recently to him threatening kicking me out of the house. So I’m pretty well cowed down and have no choice but to be silent and deal with it.

Thank you again everyone for your thoughts and help during this time. It’s been trying and having this community to turn to has meant the world.

 

[Sugabee43]

I’ve been troubled all weekend about another post saying I should change (lose weight, have more relations) …to make him happy and his eyes not wander. I just get bothered… Yes, im guikty, I’m 15# heavier now than when we married. Things aren’t like they were before kids, things droop and lose their original shape… I can’t change that. I’ve been desperately trying to lose weight/keep it off for years, I’m down over 50# from where I was a few years ago, after our second child came, so Im kind of insulted at the idea if him needing me to lose that last (very stubborn)15# to make him want only me again. I need better motivation to lose it than “so my superficial husband will look at me instead of other women.” I don’t really think that’s the issue. I don’t think it’s lack of intimacy as the marital act…he has gone much longer than a week while i was figuring out my fertile days. I don’t know what it is, but I’m trying to do everything I can to change. It doesn’t take the hurt away and I feel like talking about it leads to fights which have escalated recently to him threatening kicking me out of the house. So I’m pretty well cowed down and have no choice but to be silent and deal with it.

Thank you again everyone for your thoughts and help during this time. It’s been trying and having this community to turn to has meant the world.

Farmerswife,
I cannot stress it enough when I say that your losing or not losing weight, or having a different hair color, or wearing different clothes in no way, shape, or form justifies what he is doing. This sin is on HIM; not you. Whoever posted that type of remark has ZERO clue what this is about.

This is NOT about you changing yourself so that his “eyes won’t wander”. This is about HIM TAKING CONTROL OF HIS EYES. That comment makes me so mad I can’t see straight!!!

I just looked back and realized it was White Sheep. Mr. Sheep - if he is regularly committing a mortal sin by his use of pornography and masturbation, and is unrepentant, then that is dishonoring his vows of fidelity to his wife. When a woman is being lied to and cheated on, MOST women (probably Farmerswife included) have a very difficult time “rendering the marital debt” because that is something you do with someone you absolutely trust with your vulnerability. If your husband is not respecting you or his vows to you, then the chances of you being relaxed enough emotionally to have relations are pretty slim. Speaking from experience here.

So for you to tell Farmerswife that she ought to look more ‘attractive’ or ‘offer herself to the marital debt’ more so that HE won’t sin is putting the onus on her to keep him chaste. No.

 

[bmaj]

Farmerswife,
I cannot stress it enough when I say that your losing or not losing weight, or having a different hair color, or wearing different clothes in no way, shape, or form justifies what he is doing. This sin is on HIM; not you. Whoever posted that type of remark has ZERO clue what this is about.

This is NOT about you changing yourself so that his “eyes won’t wander”. This is about HIM TAKING CONTROL OF HIS EYES. That comment makes me so mad I can’t see straight!!!

I just looked back and realized it was White Sheep. Mr. Sheep - if he is regularly committing a mortal sin by his use of pornography and masturbation, and is unrepentant, then that is dishonoring his vows of fidelity to his wife. When a woman is being lied to and cheated on, MOST women (probably Farmerswife included) have a very difficult time “rendering the marital debt” because that is something you do with someone you absolutely trust with your vulnerability. If your husband is not respecting you or his vows to you, then the chances of you being relaxed enough emotionally to have relations are pretty slim. Speaking from experience here.

So for you to tell Farmerswife that she ought to look more ‘attractive’ or ‘offer herself to the marital debt’ more so that HE won’t sin is putting the onus on her to keep him chaste. No.

So very, very true, and from experience here, too.

 

[needleskane]

I feel sometimes we need to have a more realistic understanding of ourselves and our sexuality. Men (and women) are going to be physically attracted to other people. This does not mean that there is any flaw in yourself as a wife. I remember when I used to look at porn, I would think that “even if I was with this most gorgeous woman in the world” I would still be lusting after others. It has nothing to do “with you.” Porn can be addictively crippling, and will rob the user; what makes it difficult is not only that we live in a society that is not honest about its common negative effects, but also that we have succumbed to the “princess and prince charming” programming that is total hogwash.

 

[Farmerswife27]

I feel sometimes we need to have a more realistic understanding of ourselves and our sexuality. Men (and women) are going to be physically attracted to other people. This does not mean that there is any flaw in yourself as a wife. I remember when I used to look at porn, I would think that “even if I was with this most gorgeous woman in the world” I would still be lusting after others. It has nothing to do “with you.” Porn can be addictively crippling, and will rob the user; what makes it difficult is not only that we live in a society that is not honest about its common negative effects, but also that we have succumbed to the “princess and prince charming” programming that is total hogwash.

Being attracted to someone else and avoiding that temptation is one thing… actively seeking out pictures of womens genitals in order to satisfy your selfish fantasies when your wife is available is not OK. It hurts everyone involved and there’s no excuse for it in a committed marriage.

 

[Farmerswife27]

I have received lots of replies and personal messages and I even spoke with a therapist who specializes in this and everybody says that a woman is not supposed to take it personally when her husband looks at these pictures. It has nothing to do with his desire for her. My husband tells me the same thing.

My question is how is a woman NOT supposed to take that personally? It is a direct assault on her looks and desirability. OF COURSE he wants someone else, why else would he be looking in the first place? Because he’s not satisfied with what he has, that’s why!!! There is not a psychiatrist or friend or priest in the world that can convince me otherwise. Or any other woman who has dealt with this horrifying, devastating, discovery.

God bless all of you women who have to deal with this and all of you men who have overcome it and I can only hope that my husband has the same strength.

 

[bmaj]

I have received lots of replies and personal messages and I even spoke with a therapist who specializes in this and everybody says that a woman is not supposed to take it personally when her husband looks at these pictures. It has nothing to do with his desire for her. My husband tells me the same thing.

My question is how is a woman NOT supposed to take that personally? It is a direct assault on her looks and desirability. OF COURSE he wants someone else, why else would he be looking in the first place? Because he’s not satisfied with what he has, that’s why!!! There is not a psychiatrist or friend or priest in the world that can convince me otherwise. Or any other woman who has dealt with this horrifying, devastating, discovery.

God bless all of you women who have to deal with this and all of you men who have overcome it and I can only hope that my husband has the same strength.

Yes, no matter what anyone says, a wife usually DOES take it personally. I know I do as well. It hurts too much not to. It almost makes it even worse when everyone is telling you not to… I feel your pain all too clearly, Farmerswife. I think one of the reasons men look at porn is that it’s so easy, and they don’t have to do anything in return for the absolute pleasure it gives them. No romancing or even being a bit kinder and sweeter to the wife is needed prior - they can just watch and enjoy and get totally SELF-CENTERED pleasure. Sometimes it helps me in my marriage when I remind myself of that.

God bless you as well. I’ve found that praying for Saints Monica and Michael’s intercession can be very beneficial, and my priest also recommended asking for Our Lady of Sorrows intercession. Our Lord is right by our sides and truly knows how much it hurts. He gave man free will, though, so His job isn’t an easy one. It also helps me as a wife to remember that God loves each of us more than we could ever imagine in this world…much, much more than a husband or wife ever could…and some day we can be united with Him to feel that unimaginable love eternally. Until then, prayer can help so much.