moving on to Islam

[CompSciGuy]

It’s not a cult, its a religion. Over there in America, there are Muslims too who enjoy the same freedoms as you without seeing any conflicts with their religion.

Again, I’m worried by this association of Islam with evil. Ask yourself this - is it culture or religion which causes these problems?

On the one hand it is important to be respectful to Muslim people and not intentionally offend them by openly bashing or disparaging their faith. On the other hand it is a different matter to view Islam as equal with Christianity or to tolerate conversion to Islam.

In order to be Christian one has to believe Jesus’ words that he alone is the way, the truth and the life. There are aspects of Islam that are true and those aspects are good. But there are many aspects of Islam that are false, such as denying the divinity of Christ and denying the Trinity, etc. By false, I mean it is opposite of the truth, and if it’s not true then how can it be good? It must be evil. That doesn’t mean that individual Muslims are necessarily at fault for believing in a falsehood that they have been taught. But if Catholics are converting to Islam well this is a problem. Because they’re going from truth to falsehood. It is important that we be proclaimers of the truth.

 

[Steven_John]

My dearest friend from highschool is turning to Islam. These last few years I have been busy and had to change our friendship because I work and now have a family. She called me a few days ago and invited me to her conversion. I admit I know little about islam but it scared me and I don’t know what to tell her. She is married to a catholic man his facebook page shows he is angry at her and is afraid for his kids. what do I say at this point?

Hi, how is your friend? is she happy, sad or angry?
Are you concerned that she is turning to a religion you dont know much of or concerned that you have heard bad things about Islam?

The Catholic church does not see Islam as a cult but as a religion seeking the same G-d.

If i were lovingly concerned about my friend i would make time to be with her. Consider spending that time in learning with her so you can offer your opinion from what you learn of together.

It may be very hard for you to be unbias but try your best.

As some one pointed out here they see people being brain washed, i was raised with Catholics and can assure you they brain washed me from day one. Even pagans brainwash we all fall to trying to get ever one to believe as we do.

If your Catholic and the Catholic church recognises Islam as a religion seeking the same G-d you should have less concern than if she was becoming atheist.

In my country that maybe a hard line to swallow as our culture is more concerned about Islam than non believers that are pro gay marriage and killing babies. I guess the non believers here are descendants of the Christians but those from Islam are outsiders.

Where i live our Muslim community is very nice and they are caring sharing people who don’t really want to talk about the Quran. Basically they just want to do as their fathers were doing.

It may be wise to ask your friend, do you testify to what you don’t understand? She will likely say no. Ask her if she is being absolutely truthful. After she confirms then ask so,

am i to understand from this you will refuse to make shihada (Islamic profession of faith) until you understand ALL that is in the Quran regardless to how much pressure is put on you by very nice people. Then offer if she is ever going to make it can you be present?

If she very invites you to witness he shihada, open the Quran and ask her the meaning of the letters that open many chapters (surahs). It is said that no one knows their meaning but G-d alone.

On this basis you open the door for the last challenge does she really want to testify what she does not understand to be the truth.

The first part of shihada is just as Yahooshua (pbwh) / Jesus / Isa (pbuh) narrated says in the bible, G-d is One He needs no partner. The second part testify s Mohamed (pbuh) is His messenger.

The first part will be very inviting to a seeking simplistic trinatarian as it is truth spoke simple and can easy excite beyond thinking on the second part.

If after this your friend does make shihada just keep loving her and remember as your Catholic and not just catholic like me you have no real problem as she still worships the same G-d you do.

If you ever embark on reading the Quran know this, it is not as it was “revealed” the order of chapters was modified by a saudi. Dont read the narrations. learn the history of these people the read the Quran again but. Dont read the narrations. Dont read the narrations. then maybe read them.

This i s a lot to do i know but if you love your friend as G-d loves you it will be a very small thing you do. You will have done far more than many Muslims i know many spend more times in hadiths (narrations on the way of Mohamed (pbuh) collected from various sources about 300 years after his death). If you look to the inconstancy, in accuracy and mis translations of the Gospels written some 30 years after the perceived death of Yahooshua (pbwh) you can begin to imagine how suited hadiths maybe to the desire of their source. If you look into the history over those 300 years things become even clearer.

Oh lastly IME Muslims will be very happy to be with your friend without her making shihada provided she does not associate partners to G-d, some will even be patient with this.

Allah is with the patient so if Allah is rightly guiding those around your friend thay will be happy to let her take as long as she likes to make shihada as they respect ALL of the prophets (pbut) and their followers.

I am not real good with writting feel free to PM if you ever need as i dont come much to CAF as i was suspended for speaking on Islam and after PMing two moderators Eric and Racheal never was given a response. I guess even Christians dont love at times.

Your care for you friend is truly of G-d / Allah and is the way of Yahooshua (pbwh) Our King and Brother showing our G-d who relates to us as would a true Father.

Blessings to you and yours, pray well and stay well

 

[Terraius]

As eloquently masked your post is, most people see through it, including myself.

Yes, Muslims deserve to be happy and deserve God. But the reality is, that your history, culture, and practice, are flawed, in every sense of the word, morally, theologically, and figuratively.

The Catholic church does not see Islam as a cult but as a religion seeking the same G-d.

WRONG. The Catholic church describes in its magisterium its relations with the Individual Muslim, NOT THE INSTITUTION OF ISLAM which the church has for centuries rightfully stood against in opposition. The church is right to foster a loving relationship with the muslim individual to be a witness to Christ so that they may see through their deception. NEVER has or will the church make concessions to institutionalized Islam.

As some one pointed out here they see people being brain washed, i was raised with Catholics and can assure you they brain washed me from day one. Even pagans brainwash we all fall to trying to get ever one to believe as we do.

I could go into a tangent about this but that would take this way off topic and into a theological debate which would probably land me banned for the harsh truth that is Muhammeds deception.

If your Catholic and the Catholic church recognises Islam as a religion seeking the same G-d you should have less concern than if she was becoming atheist.

Wrong, but I covered that in my above post.

In my country that maybe a hard line to swallow as our culture is more concerned about Islam than non believers that are pro gay marriage and killing babies. I guess the non believers here are descendants of the Christians but those from Islam are outsiders.

Where i live our Muslim community is very nice and they are caring sharing people who don’t really want to talk about the Quran. Basically they just want to do as their fathers were doing.

What country if I may ask?

It may be wise to ask your friend, do you testify to what you don’t understand? She will likely say no. Ask her if she is being absolutely truthful. After she confirms then ask so,

am i to understand from this you will refuse to make shihada (Islamic profession of faith) until you understand ALL that is in the Quran regardless to how much pressure is put on you by very nice people. Then offer if she is ever going to make it can you be present?

Bull. Ive been there before. They will pressure and pressure, using cheap lines like ‘Allah wants to save you from the fire’. It never fails to amuse me.

The first part of shihada is just as Yahooshua (pbwh) / Jesus / Isa (pbuh) narrated says in the bible, G-d is One He needs no partner. The second part testify s Mohamed (pbuh) is His messenger.

Point to the verse in the Bible where Jesus is proselytizing saying God is one and needs no partner. You wont find it, firstly, because on historical grounds there was NEVER a problem with comparing anyone to God as a partner or even the existence of the trinity in those days. Another Islamic laughable fallacy.

The first part will be very inviting to a seeking simplistic trinatarian as it is truth spoke simple and can easy excite beyond thinking on the second part.

If after this your friend does make shihada just keep loving her and remember as your Catholic and not just catholic like me you have no real problem as she still worships the same G-d you do.

It is not truth. It is deception. It is a lie. You repeat a lie and soon people will believe it.

Why the hell would Jesus need to come to the Jews and repeatedly teach them that God has no partners when Judaism has always been a monotheistic, nongodhead religion. Its a postdiction. Its a laughable contradiction between history and the Islamist agenda. Jesus wouldnt have taught about these problems BECAUSE THESE PROBLEMS DIDNT EXIST, it was nothing more then propaganda. Mohammed was warping Christianity and Judaism to his own plans for domination.

And yes, she very much SHOULD BE CONCERNED because by becoming a Muslim she is denying the Messianic Divinity of Jesus and therefore denying Jesus will LAND HER IN HELL. She is concerned because her friend is being deceived into damnation. You yourself had better wake up soon and repent before you stand before the Messiah and he demands an explanation for denying him and making him nothing more then a mere mortal messenger. Shame on you.

This i s a lot to do i know but if you love your friend as G-d loves you it will be a very small thing you do. You will have done far more than many Muslims i know many spend more times in hadiths (narrations on the way of Mohamed (pbuh) collected from various sources about 300 years after his death). If you look to the inconstancy, in accuracy and mis translations of the Gospels written some 30 years after the perceived death of Yahooshua (pbwh) you can begin to imagine how suited hadiths maybe to the desire of their source. If you look into the history over those 300 years things become even clearer.

The hadiths and works of the Caliphs are so politically motivated and corrupted, to compare them to the Gospel is like trying to compare the Sistine chapel to a grass hut, claiming the hut is ‘eloquence and pure because of its simplistic nature’.

Stop being deceived. Your precious Caliphs were mass murderers and glorified medieval terrorists.

Oh lastly IME Muslims will be very happy to be with your friend without her making shihada provided she does not associate partners to G-d, some will even be patient with this.

Allah is with the patient so if Allah is rightly guiding those around your friend thay will be happy to let her take as long as she likes to make shihada as they respect ALL of the prophets (pbut) and their followers.

 

[Terraius]

I have never met a happy practicing Muslim. EVER. Ever. Ever. EVER. I have met plenty of contempary muslims who were casual with their faith.

NEVER Have I met a fufilled muslim who was rigorous in their faith.

You know why? Because when Muhammed created his version of God modeled after his families patron God, whos name ironically was Allah (Fun fact, did you know that Muhammeds father’s name was Abdullah, which means ‘Servant of God’, and even Muslims today have this name despite the fact that it was a name dedicated to the Arabian Pagan god allah?)

He left out one important attribute: Love. Your concept of ‘God’ has no love, no mercy, no kindness. Even Jews, as strict and law obeying as they were, had some semblance of love and mercy with their God as he led them out of Egypt and continued to forgive them of their transgressions. Muhammed left this important quality out of his copy cat game. Your distorted version of God has NO compassion or regard for mankind. Its a cult of FEAR AND CONTROL. It was his way of establishing Totalitarian rule in Arabia and the Middle East. Which continues to this day.

Muslim countries are the centers for human rights abuses, poverty, and radicalism. Oh, yes, surely, Allah smiles on the middle east, Right? While Christian centered nations, althrough faced with modern economic problems, are blessed with FREEDOM and SECURITY.

If the Quran and your ‘Allah’ are so true, then why has he not delievered the Infidel Israel to your hands?

He wont, because despite the apostasy and hardheadedness of Israel, God will NEVER allow you to bring harm to his chosen people or nation, which you try. Every. Single. Day. to do.

Your care for you friend is truly of G-d / Allah and is the way of Yahooshua (pbwh) Our King and Brother showing our G-d who relates to us as would a true Father.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You deny Jesus, you equate him to a ‘Good Prophet’ who supposedly taught on Islamic principals which were alien in those days. You call him King and Brother, yet in Saudi Arabia you are beheaded for having images of Jesus or having a cross with Jesus. You are beheaded for so much as invoking any memory of Jesus.

You Muslims claim to love Jesus. You dont love Jesus. You spit on his grave, you use him in your propaganda, distorting his legacy.

Muhammed was NOTHING less of a glorified Hitler of his day. He used fear and the natural thirst for God in every person’s soul to exploit and control them.

And that is why, day by day, Muslims are LEAVING YOUR PATHETIC LIE.

Like myself.

 

[Steven_John]

Terraius would you like an opportunity to pray and have another go at chiming in on my posting to Beloved?
i get a feeling you have a lot of pain experience that the spirit has not given you peace for yet.
I say this given i was not speaking to you but you are insistent on shouting at me and speaking for the culture of my people, doubt you even know who they are or bothered to read what country i am from and have had a run off at the mouth.

It maybe possible if you pray, and read what i have written with a generous heart you will see statements you have made
ie "You Muslims claim to love Jesus. You dont love Jesus. You spit on his grave, you use him in your propaganda, distorting his legacy. "

Are in fact very serious lies, when using “you” i understand you to be saying me as in steven john.

G-d has blessed me to be merciful at times so please take this opportunity to consider if you want me to take your posted to me as what you mean about me or are you dumping on me the burdens others laid upon you.

Peace be with you and yours.

 

[LemonAndLime]

I have never met a happy practicing Muslim. EVER. Ever. Ever. EVER. I have met plenty of contempary muslims who were casual with their faith.

NEVER Have I met a fufilled muslim who was rigorous in their faith.

You know why? Because when Muhammed created his version of God modeled after his families patron God, whos name ironically was Allah (Fun fact, did you know that Muhammeds father’s name was Abdullah, which means ‘Servant of God’, and even Muslims today have this name despite the fact that it was a name dedicated to the Arabian Pagan god allah?)

He left out one important attribute: Love. Your concept of ‘God’ has no love, no mercy, no kindness. Even Jews, as strict and law obeying as they were, had some semblance of love and mercy with their God as he led them out of Egypt and continued to forgive them of their transgressions. Muhammed left this important quality out of his copy cat game. Your distorted version of God has NO compassion or regard for mankind. Its a cult of FEAR AND CONTROL. It was his way of establishing Totalitarian rule in Arabia and the Middle East. Which continues to this day.

Muslim countries are the centers for human rights abuses, poverty, and radicalism. Oh, yes, surely, Allah smiles on the middle east, Right? While Christian centered nations, althrough faced with modern economic problems, are blessed with FREEDOM and SECURITY.

If the Quran and your ‘Allah’ are so true, then why has he not delievered the Infidel Israel to your hands?

He wont, because despite the apostasy and hardheadedness of Israel, God will NEVER allow you to bring harm to his chosen people or nation, which you try. Every. Single. Day. to do.

You should be ashamed of yourself. You deny Jesus, you equate him to a ‘Good Prophet’ who supposedly taught on Islamic principals which were alien in those days. You call him King and Brother, yet in Saudi Arabia you are beheaded for having images of Jesus or having a cross with Jesus. You are beheaded for so much as invoking any memory of Jesus.

You Muslims claim to love Jesus. You dont love Jesus. You spit on his grave, you use him in your propaganda, distorting his legacy.

Muhammed was NOTHING less of a glorified Hitler of his day. He used fear and the natural thirst for God in every person’s soul to exploit and control them.

And that is why, day by day, Muslims are LEAVING YOUR PATHETIC LIE.

Like myself.

I will pray for you.

 

[LemonAndLime]

Im sure there were plenty of nice Nazis during WW2 but their association then and now is still frowned upon.

Islam is savage. I was a muslim. I have seen the Light, and I am now aspiring to become a Priest in the Church.

PM me your address, I will mail you a copy of the Koran with noted verses highlighted and my commentary which shows that Mohammed is nothing more then a glorified Hitler of his day and Islam is the problem, not the scapegoat of their ‘culture’.

I hope God can open your eyes as well, Bless you. :getholy:

And I can PM you verses of an aggressive, vengeful, murderous God from the Bible. So what? Does that prove that Christianity is savage? No, doesn’t work the same for Islam either.

I have Muslim friends who as yet have shown very little signs of being mass-murderers.

Look up Godwin’s law.

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Thread started over, 15 posts pruned.
CAF forum rules (see the link below) stipulate that we are charitable in our discussion.
I suggest newbies read the rules before posting.

 

[MarisaJean]

I understand your concern for your friend but just hear me out. Three years ago a very close friend and I were chating about life and religion. I had explained how I found my new home in the catholic church and was going to start the RCIA program. She then informed me she was beginning to study Islam. She was worried I wasn’t going to be friends with her because when she told others they left her side. I expressed what I believed to be true and shared my concerns with her. She understood my perspective and appreciated me being worried but just like I found my home in the catholic religion she had found hers in Islam. It was not my place to judge her, it was my place to lover her and pray for her. I have all different kinds of friends, Catholic, Luthern, Baptist, Jewish, Islam, Buddist and some that do not believe anything! What I always do is express what I believe to be true, listen to what they believe to be true and accept that we are different. It does not mean you have to leave her side as a friend. I know alot of Muslims that practice Islam and some that do not. They are not bad people! We may not believe the same things, but they are not bad people. The stuff you see on TV is not really how the “normal” practice their daily lives. Yes there are major differences but in the end it is not your place to put judgement on your friend. All you can do is express your concern, listen to what she has to say, support her decision and most of all pray for her. I know this may be a difficult thing to do at first but pray with it and you will find the courage to support your friend.

 

[Bezant]

My dearest friend from highschool is turning to Islam. These last few years I have been busy and had to change our friendship because I work and now have a family. She called me a few days ago and invited me to her conversion.

I admit I know little about islam but it scared me and I don’t know what to tell her. She is married to a catholic man his facebook page shows he is angry at her and is afraid for his kids. what do I say at this point?

Hi Bloved,

Is your friend Catholic?

If she’s making a flippant, speedy conversion as her good friend you should (if you haven’t already done so) dissuade her from making a life-changing decision carelessly. People who make flippant conversions regret it later on. This is especially serious because she’s married with children, and a Muslim woman cannot be married to a non-Muslim man; if she’s dedicated to Islam, she will likely have to ‘suspend’ the marriage for a period of time until her husband converts, and divorce him if he refuses at the end of that period.

If, however, she’s considered this conversion for at least a year or so, if she’s considered the impact it will have on her family, if she’s read the Quran, if she’s read the hadith, if she’s heard balanced views of Islam; AND if she’s knows her original religion well, and if she has tried and knows she can’t stay in her original religion – leave her alone, wish her and her family well.

Whatever approach you take, however, do be sensative and respectful. As Mungling said, this probably isn’t a black-and-white situation. This may be a well-thought, genuine conversion, and people do have good motivations for converting to Islam, i.e., a belief on one, unpartnered God that still respects Jesus, or a direct relationship with God uninterrupted by clergy.

While it would be supportive of you to do so, you’re not obligated to attend her conversion if you’re uncomfortable.

P.S. – You can read The Rock article on Islam that one of the first responders suggested, but I would strongly recommend getting a second and third opinion. (I find their reviews of other religions and positions questionable.) Check out Fazlur Rahman’s Islam.

 

[KathleenGee]

For your friend, introduce her to the liturgy of the hours…the Prayer of the Church…prayed by lay people in the morning and in the evening and/or night prayer. The Catholic monastics pray 7 times a day…number could be challenged…but they pray the office more frequently during the day.

God bless you and your friend.

 

[GaryTaylor]

Well we don’t know how in-depth her knowledge is of Islam or belief. Nor is ISLAM in question here.

When you say Her Husband is Catholic, sounds like a affirmative statement to his beliefs. So he’s actively involved or this is an acknowledged part of his life.

However, it sounds like she and her husband became the real issue, she responded by rejecting his beliefs. then rebelled by her alignment with Islam. And somehow validated this. How? I can only imagine how this worked.

Your Christian? I assume you became involved because you are Christian, then its not out of true friendship, you haven’t paid attention to her for years, which escalated her attitude. So actually your be insulted by her gesture and invited to her nightmare Certainly you can’t believe you were invited out of LOVE?

I could go on, but you have the picture.

I would concentrate on the obvious FIRST if this is your friend. And that would be whats going on with her, and be the friend she isn’t being! Focus on everything outside of RELIGION. Islam is not the problem its the result of the problem. Be direct and honest and speak your mind.

Maybe I have this all wrong? Well, I don’t know her, or her knowledge or depth of belief. Yet you can certainly see she wasn’t very rooted in the Catholic Church, so I would have to question how rooted she could possibly be in Islam?

Just food for thought is all this is, if it doesn’t apply throw it out the window.

Peace

 

[Kouyate42]

I’m also considering Islam and there are many people who do decide to make genuine, heartfelt conversions to Islam. Your friend could easily be one of them, just as many others before have also done.

I suggest to the OP some reading of Islamic sources to understand what Islam really teaches. I’d also talk to this friend without any biases as to your own position and find out what REALLY makes her believe Islam is correct. Then if her reasons are unstable/rash, deal with them, otherwise leave her to her decision.

Islam shares much in common with Catholicism and with Christianity and is NOTHING to be scared about if it is true Islam.

 

[jakasaki]

… snip

Islam shares much in common with Catholicism and with Christianity and is NOTHING to be scared about if it is true Islam.

Like what…???

Please explain what they have in common with islam…

 

[jerry_joseph]

Now muslims from all over the world are comming to christian faith…More than six million muslims converts to christianity in Africa and Asia every year. But christianity looses only a few thousands in europe and america.

youtube.com/watch?v=xdVnILalpeo

Where ever christians are well aware about their faith and leads a christian life, we can see people from other faiths are comming to christianity and where ever christians are ignorant about their faith , we can see christians leaving christianity.

It is because of ignorance about christianity and its values.

My people perish for want of knowledge… you have forgotten the teaching of your God (Hosea 4: 6).

 

[The_Wizard]

What is it that drew your friend to Islam?

 

[Kouyate42]

Like what…???

Please explain what they have in common with islam…

Much of the Biblical narrative is found in the Qur’an largely unaltered. Moses, Abraham, Mary and Jesus, among others, are revered in Islam, although in the case of Jesus, it needs no stating that Islamic views on Jesus differ wildly to that of Christianity in any form.

Islam also shares similar moral values to Christianity generally- respect for parents, worshipping one God only, no idolatry, laws on sexual conduct, marriage and family life, modesty of clothing and of self (in terms of speech, conduct etc.), emphasis on communal unity as one body of believers…and these are just the ones I can think of without a Qur’an to hand.

 

[Nausicaa]

Well said. Islam is an Abrahamic religion, and the books of Allah (Pentateuch, New Testament) are equally valued as they are in Christianity. The only major difference is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus (Isa) was the son of God, but rather a prophet whose words were misinterpreted.

I would recommend for everyone to have a read of the Qu’ran. I was amazed at its beauty, and it contains many lessons even for those of us who aren’t Islamic.

As for the question of the wife and her family, I can’t really have an opinion. I can understand how the husband must feel, if he doesn’t know much about Islam. Maybe it would be a good idea if he read up on it?

 

[Terraius]

Having read both the Bible and Quran cover to cover, I can safely say that the Quran by far has far, far, far more historical and theological holes in it then the Bible does. The way it portrays the Apostles and Jesus is really absurd. The entire story of Jesus is him trying his damnded hardest to prove that he is NOT divine or the Son of God, and that trinitarian beliefs were false.

As a rational being looking at the historical qualities of the Gospel and the Quran, It is by far the easiest conclusion to draw that the Quran story is completely doctored and fitted to an agenda, as

A) There was no Trinity belief or any practice/belief of comparing partners to God what so ever in the time before, present, or shortly after Jesus, and

B) If that is all Jesus came to do was to disprove a theory that wasnt in existence for another 200-300 years then he should hardly be regarded as anything other then a minor prophet.

This was my decision breaker when it came to the analysis of the Quran, amongst other things.

 

[Bezant]

Having read both the Bible and Quran cover to cover, I can safely say that the Quran by far has far, far, far more historical and theological holes in it then the Bible does…

Just stop right there.

Ohhhh…therefore, I’m to trust the Bible because it has only a couple theological and historical holes, as opposed to many?

As a rational being looking at the historical qualities of the Gospel and the Quran, It is by far the easiest conclusion to draw that the Quran story is completely doctored and fitted to an agenda –

Like the New Testament doesn’t have an agenda? Laughable. It’s a holy text. It’s supposed to have an agenda.

Anyway, it smells like you’re trying to start something unnecessarily.