moving on to Islam

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Nausicaa said:
I would recommend for everyone to have a read of the Qu’ran. I was amazed at its beauty, and it contains many lessons even for those of us who aren’t Islamic.
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I agree about reading it but would recommend read chapters it in the order it was originally and skip the narrations offered in most translations.

I was not so amazed though as i had already read from other older texts, way more amazing.

Bless ya
 
Bezant said:
Like the New Testament doesn’t have an agenda? Laughable. It’s a holy text. It’s supposed to have an agenda.
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Hope its ok to chime in without distracting your discussion.

I feel in reading the Quran in its popular order of chapters it has been organised with a worldly world domination agenda.
No doubt the New testament is also for world domination but would suggest for me anyway the NT adgenda is G-d will do it if you submit and the current ordered Quran is if you submit to G-d you will do it.

Quran read in revelation order with out narrations seems more like the Christian view until we go to madina and then it becomes very justice entitled.

Has any one else read it in both orders?
 
Bloved said:
My dearest friend from highschool is turning to Islam. These last few years I have been busy and had to change our friendship because I work and now have a family. She called me a few days ago and invited me to her conversion. I admit I know little about islam but it scared me and I don’t know what to tell her. She is married to a catholic man his facebook page shows he is angry at her and is afraid for his kids.:confused: what do I say at this point?
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Who is angry on her her ex muslim husband? Did she cheated on her ex muslim husband knowing she had two kids with her ex muslim husband? Or she divorced her ex muslim husband and than married to catholic man. Did she come to west alone leaving her husband and two kids behind? Please explain fully so we can give you good advice?
 
Steven_John said:
Hope its ok to chime in without distracting your discussion.

I feel in reading the Quran in its popular order of chapters it has been organised with a worldly world domination agenda.
No doubt the New testament is also for world domination but would suggest for me anyway the NT adgenda is G-d will do it if you submit and the current ordered Quran is if you submit to G-d you will do it.

Quran read in revelation order with out narrations seems more like the Christian view until we go to madina and then it becomes very justice entitled.

Has any one else read it in both orders?
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Nice to meet you Steve. Of course 😃

I’ve only read the NT and Quran portionally, rather than in order, so I’m not so sure.
 
Nausicaa said:
Well said. Islam is an Abrahamic religion, and the books of Allah (Pentateuch, New Testament) are equally valued as they are in Christianity. The only major difference is that Muslims do not believe that Jesus (Isa) was the son of God, but rather a prophet whose words were misinterpreted.

I would recommend for everyone to have a read of the Qu’ran. I was amazed at its beauty, and it contains many lessons even for those of us who aren’t Islamic.

As for the question of the wife and her family, I can’t really have an opinion. I can understand how the husband must feel, if he doesn’t know much about Islam. Maybe it would be a good idea if he read up on it?
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I do not understand. If you are comparing the Quran just because it relates the Holy Bible, why not believe in the original source? How can you compare the Quran when all the writings in the Bible are much more beautiful than the writings in the Quran, besides, the only way Muhammed can write is because he had the source already. How about the story in the Bible and the story of the revelation of Muhammed? How do you expect us to believe in someone who just happened to tell his side of the story with no witnesses?

The conflict between Islam and Christianity lies mostly on history and geographical stand points because Arabs hated the influences of the Jews and Christians during the time of Muhammed. His writings became more popular to the Arabs because they had no choice but to fight the strangers of their land. Arabs had no choice but to support Muhammed. They never had the chance to learn more of the holy Bible.
 
I recommend you tell your friend how you feel; whether good or bad, but if I were you, I would never go to her conversion thing.
 
MontChevalier said:
I recommend you tell your friend how you feel; whether good or bad, but if I were you, I would never go to her conversion thing.
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Hi if you dont mind me asking, how are you doing with the difference in the protestant and Catholic view of Islam?
 
Kouyate42 said:
Much of the Biblical narrative is found in the Qur’an largely unaltered. Moses, Abraham, Mary and Jesus, among others, are revered in Islam, although in the case of Jesus, it needs no stating that Islamic views on Jesus differ wildly to that of Christianity in any form.

Islam also shares similar moral values to Christianity generally- respect for parents, worshipping one God only, no idolatry, laws on sexual conduct, marriage and family life, modesty of clothing and of self (in terms of speech, conduct etc.), emphasis on communal unity as one body of believers…and these are just the ones I can think of without a Qur’an to hand.
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Thank you for your reply -

I was looking for solid concrete evidence which you did not provide.
 
Nausicaa said:
Who said I don’t believe in the Bible?
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This may not pertain to you personally, but the following must be noted, as the view generally accepted by the adherents of Islam:

In theory, Muslims believe in the Jewish and Christian Scriptures, but only as they were when first given to humanity, in a process similar or identical to the manner seventh-century Arabia purportedly received the Qur’an. In practice, however, Muslims do not believe in these texts, for they deny their reliability as we have them today and allege that they have been corrupted over the centuries. Muslims also hold that those figures revered by Jews and Christians, from Adam to Jesus, were actually Muslim.

And all of this conspiracy mongering without a shred of evidence. Heaven help us all.
 
Steven_John said:
Hi if you dont mind me asking, how are you doing with the difference in the protestant and Catholic view of Islam?
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What is the “difference in the protestant and Catholic view of Islam”, and how is such a disagreement–if one can be shown to exist–relevant here?
 
In Islam you are dealing with a false and contradictory religion. Much of the Koran was plagiarized from the Bible, very similarly as is the BOM. These two religions, Christianity and Islam, are not compatible and are in total opposition to one another. One cannot worship God and Allah. “Allah” is not the god of either the New nor the Old Testament. Islam is a false religion, has a false “prophet” and seeks the subjugation and destruction of Christianity and the “Islamization” of the West. Christianity’s greatest enemy, even more so than either Communism or Naziism has been Islam. How could anyone in their right mind attach themselves to such a backward and repressive religion? How could any Western woman in her right mind subject herself to a religion that treats her as chattel property and will kill her for transgressing it’s medieval and backward laws? The bleeding hearts point to so-called “moderate” moslems, but moslems are still ruled by the koran and it’s preachers. Do not be fooled people, the deadly agenda of worldwide Islam has not changed. Am I intolerant? If warning one against drinking poison is intolerant, then so be it.
 
hosemonkey said:
In Islam you are dealing with a false and contradictory religion. Much of the Koran was plagiarized from the Bible, very similarly as is the BOM. These two religions, Christianity and Islam, are not compatible and are in total opposition to one another. One cannot worship God and Allah. “Allah” is not the god of either the New nor the Old Testament. Islam is a false religion, has a false “prophet” and seeks the subjugation and destruction of Christianity and the “Islamization” of the West. Christianity’s greatest enemy, even more so than either Communism or Naziism has been Islam. How could anyone in their right mind attach themselves to such a backward and repressive religion?** How could any Western woman in her right mind subject herself to a religion that treats her as chattel property and will kill her for transgressing it’s medieval and backward laws**? The bleeding hearts point to so-called “moderate” moslems, but moslems are still ruled by the koran and it’s preachers. Do not be fooled people, the deadly agenda of worldwide Islam has not changed. Am I intolerant? If warning one against drinking poison is intolerant, then so be it.
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I must answer this bolded part in particular, but I’ll answer this post.

Firstly, even Arabic Christians call God Allah. It’s even in my translation of the Arabic Bible. Allah is just an Arabic meaning ‘God’. It comes with no one particular theology, no one religion and no particular version of God attached.

Jesus likely spoke Aramaic where the word for God is similar to the word ‘Allah’- Ellahi. Similarly, Semitic linguistics show a root shared by both Arabic and Hebrew, namely the El- root which appears in early Jewish texts. All that happened in one case is that El- became Al- in Arabic (due to differing vowel patterns in the root language) and El became Al became Al-ilah became Allah.

With regard to the bolded bit, this is pure ignorance. Early Islam allowed women to do many things which weren’t allowed in the West even until recently. They still can and could inititate a divorce, go to university and school, become doctors, own their own money and work for themselves, own a business and travel abroad freely.

Similarly, there are literally a 1001 reasons why women in particular convert to Islam, and one of the reasons I’ve heard is much to do with the lackings of Christianity as they saw it.

As to ‘woldwide Islam’ it doesn’t exist. To use the words of the nasheed there are ‘so many different colours of Islam’. There are a wide variety of schools of Islamic thought, different Islamic cultures- even the Islam of different generations is wildly different. Just as there are many different Christian denominations, there are many different Islamic ones too, united in their unified belief in Qur’an.
 
hosemonkey said:
In Islam you are dealing with a false and contradictory religion. Much of the Koran was plagiarized from the Bible, very similarly as is the BOM. These two religions, Christianity and Islam, are not compatible and are in total opposition to one another. One cannot worship God and Allah. “Allah” is not the god of either the New nor the Old Testament. Islam is a false religion, has a false “prophet” and seeks the subjugation and destruction of Christianity and the “Islamization” of the West. Christianity’s greatest enemy, even more so than either Communism or Naziism has been Islam. How could anyone in their right mind attach themselves to such a backward and repressive religion? How could any Western woman in her right mind subject herself to a religion that treats her as chattel property and will kill her for transgressing it’s medieval and backward laws? The bleeding hearts point to so-called “moderate” moslems, but moslems are still ruled by the koran and it’s preachers. Do not be fooled people, the deadly agenda of worldwide Islam has not changed. Am I intolerant? If warning one against drinking poison is intolerant, then so be it.
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:banghead:
Kouyate42 said:
I must answer this bolded part in particular, but I’ll answer this post.

Firstly, even Arabic Christians call God Allah. It’s even in my translation of the Arabic Bible. Allah is just an Arabic meaning ‘God’. It comes with no one particular theology, no one religion and no particular version of God attached.

Jesus likely spoke Aramaic where the word for God is similar to the word ‘Allah’- Ellahi. Similarly, Semitic linguistics show a root shared by both Arabic and Hebrew, namely the El- root which appears in early Jewish texts. All that happened in one case is that El- became Al- in Arabic (due to differing vowel patterns in the root language) and El became Al became Al-ilah became Allah.

With regard to the bolded bit, this is pure ignorance. Early Islam allowed women to do many things which weren’t allowed in the West even until recently. They still can and could inititate a divorce, go to university and school, become doctors, own their own money and work for themselves, own a business and travel abroad freely.

Similarly, there are literally a 1001 reasons why women in particular convert to Islam, and one of the reasons I’ve heard is much to do with the lackings of Christianity as they saw it.

As to ‘woldwide Islam’ it doesn’t exist. To use the words of the nasheed there are ‘so many different colours of Islam’. There are a wide variety of schools of Islamic thought, different Islamic cultures- even the Islam of different generations is wildly different. Just as there are many different Christian denominations, there are many different Islamic ones too, united in their unified belief in Qur’an.
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Thank-you! It was just not even 30-40 years ago that “Christian” Europe was overrun by fascist dictators, and some 75 actively bombing itself to pieces. The Middle East, which contains only a tiny fraction of the words Muslims, mostly inherited the mess left by western colonial governments, which looked the other way Arab dictators came to power in their absence.

Before colonial times, and especially during colonial times, Middle eastern society did not treat their woman any worse than Europe or the United States. Its only once we allowed horrible people come to power did we create the mess over there.
 
Both of you have your heads stuck in the sand. If you do not recognize the evils of this false religion, then you will fall victim to it. Look what is happening in the U.K. and Europe. No-go areas in British and French cities, “honor killings” by moslems, both in the U.K. and in the U.S. Do you honestly maintain that you see no problem with the moslem treatment of women? The sad fact is that Saudi Wahabiism is becoming the norm, exported furiously to the rest of the moslem world by Saudi Arabia, our “ally.”
 
runningdude said:
:banghead:
Thank-you! It was just not even 30-40 years ago that “Christian” Europe was overrun by fascist dictators, and some 75 actively bombing itself to pieces. The Middle East, which contains only a tiny fraction of the words Muslims, mostly inherited the mess left by western colonial governments, which looked the other way Arab dictators came to power in their absence.
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Be a good idea if you did a little reading. You’ll find that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, the senior moslem cleric in the middle east, was a great admirer and ally of Adolf Hitler and worked very hard for the success of Naziism among moslems until the British chased him out of Palestine. The “Arab dictators” that you mention maintained their power with the aid of moslem clerics who cited the koran as their authority, likewise their treatment of women. If women were indeed treated badly in the West, we have certainly progressed past that point. Islam is still firmly rooted in the seventh century, both in it’s thinking and in it’s actions. When the oil and the money runs out, they will be right back to where they came from, in the seventh century.
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Kouyate42 said:
Often these sharia ghettoes are the covering for abuse of women and children, forced wearing of the burka, honor killings and other things which are directly in violation of the civil law of this country.

Problem is that the people trying to impose these sharia zones are also pushing with it hardline fanatical Islamist views on sharia. This is the view of a minority, which will only lead to major civil and criminal abuses if left unchecked.

And as to the part about consent- how do you police that one? There’s already been cases where women who’ve been subject to sharia type rulings here in the UK have been beaten, raped and even murdered to ensure that they are kept under sharia law and don’t go to the secular authorities.
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Posted by Kouyate on another forum regarding attempts to create “Sharia Zones” in U.K. cities. “Sharia”, isn’t that a “moslem” thing?
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