moving on to Islam

[hosemonkey]

The question demands that Hosemonkey answer how

I know that Christianity is true because of the very sources that you cited, Scripture,sacred Tradition and the teaching authority of the Magisterium. Christianity has universal truth because God says so. Good enough for me. Christianity and Islam fundamentally conflict and when a conflict is that basic, then only one Truth can exist. Either Christianity is true and Islam is false or vice versa. I will admit to no error, I cherish my Catholic faith and my defense of it 100%. for you to descend to name-calling and insults calls your status as a gentleman into question. As far as your Catholicism is concerned, both your zeal and your committment have yet to be proven to me. If you walk like a duck…

 

[ibneahmad]

See what argument she gives; then counter her with your own argument; if one does not find a good argument then one could consult others for a good argument. Only a good and reasonabe argument will work.

One has to be rational and reasonable in religion if one is open minded and peaceful.

 

[Trebor135]

One has to be rational and reasonable in religion if one is open minded and peaceful.

I agree. But then why does the Qur’an mandate that Jews and Christians who don’t convert to Islam have to pay a special poll tax as a sign of their inferiority, according to sura 9:29 and the surrounding context?

 

[ibneahmad]

If somebody is convinced heat and soul that Christianity is truthful, nobody could stop one from conversion; of what use is such person to Islam?

 

[ibneahmad]

Of course,yes; Quran Islam Muhammad allow it.

 

[Kouyate42]

Then why is Muslim practice in Islamic countries (such as Iran, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Somalia, etc.) nothing like what you describe?

Why are women in those places treated with such murderous loathing and contempt?

Ever thought that women in those countries ARE actually happy?

I was watching a documentary recently which talked about women in Saudi Arabia wanting to drive. Now one woman on that show made a point which has some relevance to this discussion: Saudi women’s culture is unique to KSA and the grand majority of women there have little problem with staying at home, relying on a driver/male relative to drive etc. You’re trying to impose your ideas about women and how they should be treated onto those women who have largely lived their lives happily in the way they do.

Also, do NOT mix cultural and religious beliefs up: Islam replaced pre-existing cultures in all the places that it reached, including Saudi Arabia itself, but it didn’t completely displace many cultural practices which had previously existed.

Take female genital mutilation: a traditional practice which was attached to the new Islamic ideas about modesty. NOTHING in the Qur’an explicitly mentions anything about FGM, but it still happens.

 

[Steven_John]

Its also worth noting that the majority of Egyptian girls are forced to undergo the most brutal, invasive, and harmful form of Female Genital Mutilation (where the vagina is literally sewn shut). You can’t tell me that is respect.

Is that the Islamic religion? if so do you know where i may find it in the Quran or hadiths?

Peace and blessings to you and yours

 

[Steven_John]

Saudi Arabia and the Taliban are theocracies, their policies are explicitly religious and Islamic!

How do you define Islamic?
peace and blessings

 

[Steven_John]

I agree. But then why does the Qur’an mandate that Jews and Christians who don’t convert to Islam have to pay a special poll tax as a sign of their inferiority, according to sura 9:29 and the surrounding context?

Fight against those who  believe not in Allah,  nor in the Last Day,  nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the religion of truth among the people of the Scripture, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Could you explain the surrounding context so i can understand what is happening to these people at this time.

Also can you read arabic? I have trouble especially when the translations contain narrations i don,t find in the Arabic text. Most of the translations i have contain a lot of interpretation. While this makes some sense, truly literal translation can be hard to make sense of.

Bless ya

 

[ibneahmad]

There are some specific verses in Quran which discuss this situation; I give one hereunder:

[5:55] O ye who believe! whoso among you turns back from his religion, then let it be known that in his stead Allah will soon bring a people whom He will love and who will love Him, and who will be kind and humble towards believers, hard and firm against disbelievers. They will strive in the cause of Allah and will not fear the reproach of a faultfinder. That is Allah’s grace; He bestows it upon whomsoever He pleases; and Allah is Bountiful, All- Knowing.

alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=5&verse=54

If somebody reverts to one’s previous faith, Quran mentions no punishment for such a person in this world just for conversion; Quran mentions it would be beneficial for Muslims at large and will cause many other people to join Islam.

 

[Nausicaa]

Is that the Islamic religion? if so do you know where i may find it in the Quran or hadiths?

Peace and blessings to you and yours

I agree. Either find some evidence or stop spouting lies. Such genital mutilation was around in the Middle East long before Islam.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Is that the Islamic religion? if so do you know where i may find it in the Quran or hadiths?

Peace and blessings to you and yours

Genital mutilation is not in Quran, at least, but the Quran DOES say a man is allowed to “beat severely” his wife if she “disobeys.” And Islam has done nothing to ban or discourage female genital mutilation---------------------------------so what does that tell you?

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

How do you define Islamic?
peace and blessings

I would ask you:

Is the Quran conducive to democracy? Since Christianity apparently is not, what about Islam?

Well?

 

[Steven_John]

I would ask you:

Is the Quran conducive to democracy? Since Christianity apparently is not, what about Islam?

Well?

That does not answer my question at all, i asked because different people look from different perspectives “what defines Islamic religion” ie some look to the Quaran some Quran and hadiths some the TV some personal experience.

Love your tone, not, i marked it in bold, i asked you a polite simple question that you have not even tried to answer.

To answer yours, as my people have brought me up to be good mannered.
These are my opinions only.

Is the Quran conducive to democracy?

No

Since Christianity apparently is not, what about Islam?

The first part is your words from you or quote me please. The second part, did you not ask that in your first question?

Sorry if i am no more help than you were to me so that we may have good dialogue, but its the best i can do for you.

G-d bless you and yours as youes submit unto Him in the way of your messenger/s (pbut), the way you treat me should be an example of their piety.

 

[Trebor135]

I don’t think attending her friend’s ceremony is being with her as she “sins”, is it really??

If abandoning the truth isn’t sinful, is it virtuous?

She is trying to find a way to be closer to God. That is a good thing. It may not be the same way you do it, but it’s the way, at this moment in time, she feels she must do it. Better some way than no way at all.

Yes, but truth isn’t like ice cream flavours. “She likes vanilla, I like chocolate mint” doesn’t cut it.

Attending the ceremony would risk the friend’s well-being??
Oy.
She goes, there’s a little ceremony, a little lunch, and it’s done. I imagine standing in a place of worship–even tho it is not the same as yours-- for ten minutes will not put the OP in too, too much danger

No, I imagine not, unless the friend’s Christian faith isn’t strong enough to withstand possible attempts at da’wa.

And if the OP’s friend invited her to the ceremony, it sounds like her friend is much more open to other people’s religions than many on this site. If the OP wore her cross or brought her rosary, sounds like it is a crowd that is understanding of other people’s religions views, which is a great thing.

I don’t see your logic here. The whole point for someone to invite a friend of another religion to a conversion ceremony is to bring them to celebrate a great experience with them (which is itself understandable) and to send the message that the friend should consider following their example (which, if one is already committed to the true faith, is a desire which is pointless to fulfill).

The conversion is also an occasion for social/communal gathering! Have you ever been to one? I have, and it’s just like a baptism, etc. Family and friends gather together, everyone celebrating, much warmth and love.

As someone abandons the true faith. I don’t see much cause for celebration.

As you said, Western society is quite ethnically and religiously heterogeneous…so we may be asked to attend a Jewish wedding…or a Muslim conversion…or a Buddhist whatever by our dear friends. Our friends may be from many different religions.

This doesn’t mean that we’re under any obligation to attend.

I get the feeling that this friend would indeed understand if the OP didn’t attend, tho. But as a friend, it still would be hurtful…and I wonder if the OP, too, would regret not going.

I’ll leave it up to the OP to work things out with her friend and God.

Don’t you see how great it would be if the OP went to the ceremony, and, as the writers who put together the Matthew chapter say, “let her light shine”. Would be great if she let her light shine in places where they least expect it!!!

I see where you’re coming from. But should I join a friend who wants to go shoplifting so I can set them a good example by standing to the side and declining to participate?

As for The Truth. I guess when we all, from different religions, leave the physical world and get to the Other Side…we will know the whole truth then, for sure.
I’m looking forward to that.

Me too!

But I wouldn’t throw up my hands and say, “We can never know the truth until after we die.” I hold that the truth can be known even here on earth.

 

[Steven_John]

Genital mutilation is not in Quran, at least, but the Quran DOES say a man is allowed to “beat severely” his wife if she “disobeys.” And Islam has done nothing to ban or discourage female genital mutilation---------------------------------so what does that tell you?

It tells me you have some recognised authority that differs from those in the Islamic religion where i live as they are opposed and have began and interfaith group here that is their platform for what they see as correcting what they see as miss information of what Islam is.
Your great … before your question coupled with your “well” post to me it may say more about you than them.
As i have said they way you treat me and others reflects to me the understanding you have of the piety of your messenger/s.
Peace and blessings

 

[Steven_John]

My dearest friend from highschool is turning to Islam. These last few years I have been busy and had to change our friendship because I work and now have a family. She called me a few days ago and invited me to her conversion. I admit I know little about islam but it scared me and I don’t know what to tell her. She is married to a catholic man his facebook page shows he is angry at her and is afraid for his kids. what do I say at this point?

Hi, if i may ask how is it all going, did she make her conversion, did you go?
If you did what were the people like toward you?

I ask as i have missed some of the thread and of course myself and i am sure others are praying for you both.

We are so blessed when G-d inspires people to share so personally and with your honesty as you have done. The truth of your sharing magnify and glorify G-d.

I am sure He will bless you and yours in this light, He is most just.

Big blessings for you and yours for generations to come, for your honesty and seeking truth for your friend.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

"*Fact is that there are many happy Muslim converts to Islam, including women. A Muslim woman can be a happy one, just as you get many content Jewish and Christian women.

I’ve heard the following reasons stated for WOMEN converting to Islam.

• The focus on the sisterhood of all Muslimah (female Muslims). Indeed, Muslim women stick together and support one another. Nearly every mosque I’ve been to has women’s meetings and groups.
• The focus on inner beauty (and modesty). Islam teaches that a woman is not just about looks, something the West seems to have largely forgotten, and that she should be respected for the person she is, not just her looks. Hence the long clothes and hijab. Women in Islam ARE valued, despite what you might want to believe.
  Here’s a hadith which proves my point:

.*

Here are some verses from the Koran to prove my point:

A.Allah (thus) directs you as regards your Children’s (Inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females: if only daughters, two or more, their share is two-thirds of the inheritance; if only one, her share is a half," (4:11).

A.“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) **beat them **(lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all),” (4:34).

Qur’an (2:282) - (Court testimony) “And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not found then a man and two women.” Muslim apologists offer creative explanations to explain why Allah felt that a man’s testimony in court should be valued twice as highly as a woman’s, but studies consistently show that women are actually less likely to tell lies than men, meaning that they would make more reliable witnesses.

"Once Allah’s Apostle went out to eh Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, “O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you women.” they asked, “Why is it so, O Allah’s Apostle?” He replied, “You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. a cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.” the women asked, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?” He said, “Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?” They replied in the affirmative. He said, “This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn’t it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?” The women replied in the affirmative. He said, **“This is the deficiency in her religion.”
**

Moreover, these quotes match the actual practices of Muslims in their own countries.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

This is not a religious practice. There are Coptic women who’ve also suffered FGM.

The Egyptians think it is, and they practice that belief, that makes it religious practice whether it was originally or not.

 

[AngryAtheist8]

This discussion is getting tedious.

The question should not be “How widespread is particularly reprehensible behaviour X, Y, and Z among Muslims?” or “Can we find success stories in the Muslim world where human rights are making progress?”

The question should rather be “Do the teachings of Islam, as derived from the Qur’an and Hadith and expounded upon by early, knowledgeable Muslim scholars, cause this behaviour?”

The evidence suggests yes.