Moving to another country--have you ever thought about it?

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Ok, I understand what you are saying about transferring Americans to other areas in the USA. I guess it depends on how strict other countries’ laws are. IOW, would the foreigner be taking away a job from a citizen of that country? As far as skill, I’m not sure how strict other countries are. IOW, I doubt that they would turn away doctors who are from foreign countries if they are in need of doctors, but would they go through the bother of getting a work visa for a salesperson when one could be hired locally, especially one who has the language skills needed?
yes–good points. things are done…um…a little differently around here. we don’t post jobs often times…kind if walk to the beat of our own drum. it can be bad for people who feel that they are deserving a promotion, but someone else is chosen…no interviews…the next day, you read about it…so, we do things differently!😛
 
yes–good points. things are done…um…a little differently around here. we don’t post jobs often times…kind if walk to the beat of our own drum. it can be bad for people who feel that they are deserving a promotion, but someone else is chosen…no interviews…the next day, you read about it…so, we do things differently!😛
The reason I mentioned this is because the USA is actually very similar in terms of green cards and legal immigration. I used to work with a man from Mexico and a woman from Italy. Both of them came here legally. It took many years for them to get visas and eventually become citizens, but they were factory workers. OTOH, there are many doctors who are from foreign countries working here. I would expect that doctors have an easier time to get a green card due to the skill level involved.
 
The reason I mentioned this is because the USA is actually very similar in terms of green cards and legal immigration. I used to work with a man from Mexico and a woman from Italy. Both of them came here legally. It took many years for them to get visas and eventually become citizens, but they were factory workers. OTOH, there are many doctors who are from foreign countries working here. I would expect that doctors have an easier time to get a green card due to the skill level involved.
Maybe–we are a global company made up of sales, marketing managers…so–we transfer people quite a bit–whether or not people become permanent --not sure the %. A gentleman who worked in our GA office recently, just moved to England last month–and he is there permanently…he is a SVP in sales…so, it depends on the need for sure–but we are a group made up of varying levels of sales personnel.
 
But in Germany you can’t homeschool, correct? NOt that whatever girl homeschools but the option is nice to have if you are having problems with the local public school.
I don’t know about German citizens, but if you’re DOD you can. Lot’s of people we knew there homeschooled. Actually the DOD policy is VERY lenient about homeschooling. You can homeschool and still send your kids to the post school for “specials” like choir,art etc. I’m pretty sure if you keep your US passport, you can do whatever you want with your kids. Many people even sent their kids to the German or Italian schools. They are a lot harder, but that’s another thread.
 
Don’t underestimate culture shock, even (or perhaps especially) if you plan on going to a country that is similar in culture to the US. It’s like quicksand at times, and exhausting. I have a cousin who lived for extensive periods in both Switzerland and China, and who said China was easier because there you KNEW everything was different and knew where you stood. In Europe it can become very disconcerting, with the mix of the extremely familiar and the extremely foreign.

I’ve spent a total of about 20 months here now, and am just starting to feel like I actually live here and am not just visiting. It’s a huge life change.
This is true. I lived in Japan for some time and then I moved to the US (I am from Slovakia). It was much easier to deal with culture shock in Japan than in the USA. I honestly hated my life in the US for the first six months. It was extremely hard to adjust. After some years here, I am moving back to my country next month and I expect that I would have to deal with the reverse culture shock.
 
This is true. I lived in Japan for some time and then I moved to the US (I am from Slovakia). It was much easier to deal with culture shock in Japan than in the USA. I honestly hated my life in the US for the first six months. It was extremely hard to adjust. After some years here, I am moving back to my country next month and I expect that I would have to deal with the reverse culture shock.
Your post is very intriguing to me…what was it that shell shocked you when moving to the US? Just curious. It is interesting to hear other’s perceptions of this country.
 
Your post is very intriguing to me…what was it that shell shocked you when moving to the US? Just curious. It is interesting to hear other’s perceptions of this country.
I think there are many factors involved. When I moved to Japan I already knew som expats that were willing to help or give me advice. Japanese people were very much helpfull and tolerant as well. Most of the problems were related to language barrier and cultural misundertandings. Before I went to Japan I had some time to get mentally ready.

I ended up in the USA just by accidant. While in Japan I was looking for a job in Europe on-line and I came across an ad from the USA. I found the job in the USA very interesting so I sent an application and I got the job. I moved from Japan to the US almost right away without any break.

Japanese and american cultures and mentality are very much different. Japan is very crowded and in the US you rarely see walking people in streets. Japan is very group oriented society and the US is very individualistic. One of the biggest shocks either in the US or Japan is food. It is so much different than slovakian. One of the reasons I found living in Japan easier (at least at the beginning) was that Japan is a very homogenic society so it is easier to learn social norms and manners. The US is very diverse. That was very confusing for me. I think I needed some break before I came to the US. Actually, I did not have much knowledge about american life style at all. I had to learn hard way. Therefore, I would recommend to everyone to prepare mentally for a country you plan to relocate. Knowing language is very important but being mentally ready as well.
 
**Just wanted to add really quick that there are a lot of things that are desirable about the US. So much so that hubby was even talking about us moving down there… I guess it’s a “grass is always greener…” type of thing:shrug:

Malia
**
 
HONESTLY, SHARON, this does not at all sound crazy!!!

In fact MM has mentioned the exact same thing to me a few weeks back, that if a certain someone is elected we will be outta here! Some place south probably, so that we are not too far away from relatives…not like we will follow through w/ it but hey, w/ homeschooling at least we can live anywhere, right?👍

I know it sounds kinda like a kid 'boo hoo, I didn’t get my way, so I quit (move)" But that’s not it at all. If a certain someone gets elected we will be attacked again by some terrorists because our troops will be pulled out of Iraq and Afghan. and then we would be basically moving to protect our family, right??:confused:
Let me get this straight, to protect your kids from terrorists you’d move to a foreign country where protecting the lives of Americans could never be the number one security concern?

Sadly, terrorism is not unique to the world, the Middle East or to our times, though perhaps it is to us as a nation.

Ask Spain about its Basque separatists, Northern Ireland about it’s troubles, South America about it’s leftist rebels, Haiti about it’s Ton-Ton Macoutes…

The real victory for terrorists is not in the body counts, but in the fear with which they seek to enslave us. Want to know what is worse than death? A life of cowering and apprehension. Trust God and let go of the rest…
 
Hi WG!
I’ve been living in Korea for four years, and I’ve met lots of Americans who are here because they don’t agree with some American policies and are removing themselves and their tax dollars from American soil. There’s a lot to think of when you’re moving abroad.

First, it’s unlikely to be permanent, even with company support. Most countries will welcome you for five years or so, but when it comes time to become permanent they’re not so enthusiastic. In Korea, at least, it’s because they’re trying to protect their homogenous culture. Also, here in Korea it’s not possible for foreign citizens to buy property, so you’d be renting. I’ve heard that’s true in a lot of Asian countries (not sure about Japan).

Second, you’ll never really feel like you’re part of the culture. I can tell you a thousand things about Korean culture. I can recite its history and give you the recipe for a hundred traditional dishes. And every week, I get asked two or three times if I know how to use chopsticks. Every week, someone asks me some ridiculous question that indicates that they expect me to be a stupid foreigner who hasn’t bothered to learn two words of Korean. Even if you’re fluent in the language, people will treat you as if you’re an ignorant outsider, at least here in Asia where you look different from the locals. You get used to it, but I wouldn’t be able to do it forever.

Third, your teenaged kids will attract unwanted attention from older members of the opposite sex. Here in Asia, American culture is taken from movies. They’re going to assume that your kids are a cross between American Pie and Sex and the City. Every obnoxious immoral act on an American TV show or movie is taken as a sample of American life, and people are going to automatically assume that your family is the same. People here figure that extra-marital sex is a way of life in America, that kids start having sex at 15 and change partners weekly, and that advances from drunk strangers would be welcomed. You’re going to have to make sure that your kids are ready to defend themselves from advances, both the unwanted and the flattering kind.

Fourth, everything is harder in a foreign country. If you’re used to doing your grocery shopping in under an hour, it’s going to take three hours. There are lots of things you won’t be able to find, and you’ll need to bring your dictionary to the grocery store, at least for the first few months. Clothing won’t come in your sizes, unless you’re particularly short and skinny. Catching a taxi will take you ages, because many drivers won’t stop if you don’t look like you speak the language. People will offer to help you, of course, but sometimes they make well-meaning mistakes that mess you up even more. You’ll find it difficult to go to restaurants because you can’t read the menu, and even if you can read it you won’t necessarily know what the words mean. Be prepared for the first six months to be incredibly frustrating.

On the positive side, people will be friendly to you as long as you’re open minded. Here in Asia, a western person looking confused (or even waiting on a street corner) will often attract at least three strangers offering to help. Random people will approach you to start conversations and practice their English. You’ll have a few people offer to show you around town in exchange for the chance to speak English with you. You won’t become bosom buddies with anybody right away, but you’ll have lots of close acquaintances who will drop what they’re doing to help you.

Asia is much safer than America. I haven’t heard of many episodes of school violence, other than the usual fistfights over insults. I’ve accepted the hospitality of strangers, and never felt threatened. In most places, it’s safe to walk the streets at night. You don’t see a lot of drunken brawls in Asia either.

People in Asia put a lot of value on education, so your kids will be surrounded by people who care about studying. I’ve never met an Asian kid who didn’t want to go to college.

Most countries have agreements with the US stating that you only need to pay taxes in your country of residence. Of course, that means that you’re paying for taxation without representation, since you won’t be able to vote in your new country.

Your family will learn a new language. Immersion is the best way to learn, although you will want to take language classes as well. Speaking another language will be a great skill for your kids’ careers.

Your eyes will be opened to how the rest of the world lives. America is totally different than most other countries. It will be a great experience if you’re open to it, and it can be horrible if you aren’t sure it’s right. If you go in with an adventurous spirit and an exit strategy in case it doesn’t work out, you’ll probably have a blast.

Good luck, whatever you decide.
 
Hi WG!
I’ve been living in Korea for four years, and I’ve met lots of Americans who are here because they don’t agree with some American policies and are removing themselves and their tax dollars from American soil. There’s a lot to think of when you’re moving abroad.

First, it’s unlikely to be permanent, even with company support. Most countries will welcome you for five years or so, but when it comes time to become permanent they’re not so enthusiastic. In Korea, at least, it’s because they’re trying to protect their homogenous culture. Also, here in Korea it’s not possible for foreign citizens to buy property, so you’d be renting. I’ve heard that’s true in a lot of Asian countries (not sure about Japan).

Second, you’ll never really feel like you’re part of the culture. I can tell you a thousand things about Korean culture. I can recite its history and give you the recipe for a hundred traditional dishes. And every week, I get asked two or three times if I know how to use chopsticks. Every week, someone asks me some ridiculous question that indicates that they expect me to be a stupid foreigner who hasn’t bothered to learn two words of Korean. Even if you’re fluent in the language, people will treat you as if you’re an ignorant outsider, at least here in Asia where you look different from the locals. You get used to it, but I wouldn’t be able to do it forever.

Third, your teenaged kids will attract unwanted attention from older members of the opposite sex. Here in Asia, American culture is taken from movies. They’re going to assume that your kids are a cross between American Pie and Sex and the City. Every obnoxious immoral act on an American TV show or movie is taken as a sample of American life, and people are going to automatically assume that your family is the same. People here figure that extra-marital sex is a way of life in America, that kids start having sex at 15 and change partners weekly, and that advances from drunk strangers would be welcomed. You’re going to have to make sure that your kids are ready to defend themselves from advances, both the unwanted and the flattering kind.

Fourth, everything is harder in a foreign country. If you’re used to doing your grocery shopping in under an hour, it’s going to take three hours. There are lots of things you won’t be able to find, and you’ll need to bring your dictionary to the grocery store, at least for the first few months. Clothing won’t come in your sizes, unless you’re particularly short and skinny. Catching a taxi will take you ages, because many drivers won’t stop if you don’t look like you speak the language. People will offer to help you, of course, but sometimes they make well-meaning mistakes that mess you up even more. You’ll find it difficult to go to restaurants because you can’t read the menu, and even if you can read it you won’t necessarily know what the words mean. Be prepared for the first six months to be incredibly frustrating.

On the positive side, people will be friendly to you as long as you’re open minded. Here in Asia, a western person looking confused (or even waiting on a street corner) will often attract at least three strangers offering to help. Random people will approach you to start conversations and practice their English. You’ll have a few people offer to show you around town in exchange for the chance to speak English with you. You won’t become bosom buddies with anybody right away, but you’ll have lots of close acquaintances who will drop what they’re doing to help you.

Asia is much safer than America. I haven’t heard of many episodes of school violence, other than the usual fistfights over insults. I’ve accepted the hospitality of strangers, and never felt threatened. In most places, it’s safe to walk the streets at night. You don’t see a lot of drunken brawls in Asia either.

People in Asia put a lot of value on education, so your kids will be surrounded by people who care about studying. I’ve never met an Asian kid who didn’t want to go to college.

Most countries have agreements with the US stating that you only need to pay taxes in your country of residence. Of course, that means that you’re paying for taxation without representation, since you won’t be able to vote in your new country.

Your family will learn a new language. Immersion is the best way to learn, although you will want to take language classes as well. Speaking another language will be a great skill for your kids’ careers.

Your eyes will be opened to how the rest of the world lives. America is totally different than most other countries. It will be a great experience if you’re open to it, and it can be horrible if you aren’t sure it’s right. If you go in with an adventurous spirit and an exit strategy in case it doesn’t work out, you’ll probably have a blast.

Good luck, whatever you decide.
Everything said here also applies to Japan apart from the bit about property. I just bought a house and I know several other foreigners who own their own property. In spite of all the problems mentioned above I’ve lived here for 11 years now and I actually love living here.
Gearoidin
 
You can only own property in Belgium (Flanders anyway) if you demonstrate that you are fluent in Dutch.

You are allowed to vote in local elections if you are on a 5 year visa though. That’ll be nice. Voting is mandatory for citizens, you go to jail if you don’t. My husband is continually baffled at the low voter turnout rate in the US. Actually, that’s what seems to offend most locals here - more than Bush, more than the war, they’re angered that so many Americans care so little about their own country and the world.

There are also “protected” professions - even if they are lacking in their own citizens to fill the jobs, they will not give them to an outsider. There are 7, but the army (makes sense) and nursing (doesn’t make any sense at all) are the only two I can recall right now.

You’re also taxed at an absolutely unbelievable rate, especially if both spouses work (2 spouses/partners working = minimum 45% tax bracket) but I find you actually feel like you’re getting something for it. The public transportation system is top notch, it’s pretty safe (yes, even with the large Muslim community), there’s excellent and affordable health care, wonderful community projects and outreach, true financial incentives to have children, etc.

Also wanted to add that in western Europe (including Portugal, Spain, and Italy in my experience) you might be quite taken aback by some morality issues. It’s very common to see nudity here - on a poster at a bus stop, on tv during a commercial during a cartoon. For instance, you know the commercials for bath gel where a woman is showering, and in the US, there will be bubbles/fog/a camera cut? Not here - boobies everywhere 🤷 It’s not seen as a big deal.

Also, as a practicing, American Catholic, you will probably find the acceptance of homosexuality to upsetting. It is completely a non-issue except in the strict Muslim and Hasidic Jewish communities. No one blinks an eye at two men or two women together in public, holding hands or kissing, any more than they would for a man and a woman. As close as I can tell, a homosexual relationship is viewed here like an interracial couple is in NYC or LA - a minority, but nothing strange, untoward, or sinful. Even among the Catholic (church going or not).
 
:dts:

Muslim does NOT equal terrorist.
Sorry, I forgot my sarcastic eye-rolly - my apologies. If you look at other posts I’ve done I’ve said a lot about how safe I feel here, how nice the Muslims are, and how the US media blows things all out of proportion.

I have a MUCH higher opinion of Muslims after actually living next to them and among them. My mother still listens to Glen Beck though and thinks they’re going to chop our heads off in the night :rolleyes:
 
I won’t name the candidate name…but if a certain someone is elected as President of the USA in this upcoming election–my husband and I have strongly considered leaving the U.S. I know–sounds crazy, right? But, should it? My and my husband’s employer…are global–and there are offices in most countries. We discussed moving to Japan, if this candidate were to be elected. The thought of our tax dollars going to support this person’s (personal) agenda, is something that is really not sitting well with us. Now, the person has not won yet, but we are thinking of moving out of the country if it happens.

Are we insane? I suppose we would have to see if Japan’s government holds the values that we hold. My husband said that there are a lot of luxuries that he could see me missing–luxuries that are actually just basic everyday things to us here in this country–but are luxuries to others, in countries outside of the US. I haven’t thought that far.😛 Does not HAVE to be Japan, as we are also tossing around the idea of Australia.

What are your thoughts? I would be interested also in hearing from people on here who have moved from the US, to another country, and why, and how you did it–and are you happy you did it? Thank you.🙂
I don’t think it’s crazy at all. I have lived outside the U.S. on several occasions (Asia, Europe, and Central America). I have often daydreamed of going back and attempting to escape some of the ”problems" encountered in today’s American society. But then I think, “where would I go?” As I’ve said, I’ve been around the world and lived in several countries, none come close to the utopia that I yearn for. And as society continues to “move forward,” I become more and more certain that things will only continue to get worse. Without naming names, and staying on the topic of the upcoming election, I see a blurring of the political parties insomuch as it is getting harder and harder to tell the difference between the two main parties. There used to be a time where it was easy for me to cast a vote now I find that I must compromise more and more and always lean in the direction of “the-lesser-of-two-evils” instead of a moral and ethical leader (of which there are too few).

My solution - I have been considering giving up this secular lifestyle altogether and entering a monastery. God and his Church are really the only important things (besides family) in my life anymore. Money, politics, political correctness, relativism, social norms, etc. mean nothing to me. However, before I can pursue that possibility, I need to take care of a few things (debts & being granted an annulment). It’s not a physical move to another country, but it’s the closest thing to Heaven on this side of a heartbeat.
 
My solution - I have been considering giving up this secular lifestyle altogether and entering a monastery. God and his Church are really the only important things (besides family) in my life anymore. Money, politics, political correctness, relativism, social norms, etc. mean nothing to me. However, before I can pursue that possibility, I need to take care of a few things (debts & being granted an annulment). It’s not a physical move to another country, but it’s the closest thing to Heaven on this side of a heartbeat.
I hope you are able to accomplish this. I’ve always thought monks and nuns were the luckiest people on earth.
 
I would have to say IF I was going to move away from America due to political problems. I would not go to any country the US more or less controls. So that crosses off Japan and South Korea. There are more but these have a pretty strong connection to the US. Of all the countries in the world one of the only ones I would go to is Malta. Malta has English has one of its official languages, it also has a population that is 97% Catholic, and over half practicing. However, I am not overly eager to pack up everything and leave. Malta is a small island nation and therefore does not have a huge range of job oportunities.
 
**What about a more Catholic country like Portugal? My husband’s coworker is from there and we here stories of how wonderful it is…

malia

**
Sorry to disapoint you, but Portugal is an awful country.

The taxes are very high (IRS of about 40%, undirect tax of 21% on every product you buy). The two largest parties that rule us since 1974 are the Socialist Party (currently in power) and the Social-democrat Party (they are more or less the same).

We have the most liberal law on abortion in the world… and church attendence isn’t very high.

Most Catholics are caffetaria catholics who go to the Church once in a while - like 90% of them thinks contraception is good.

I want to get out of here as soon as possible.
 
Sorry, I forgot my sarcastic eye-rolly - my apologies. If you look at other posts I’ve done I’ve said a lot about how safe I feel here, how nice the Muslims are, and how the US media blows things all out of proportion.

I have a MUCH higher opinion of Muslims after actually living next to them and among them. My mother still listens to Glen Beck though and thinks they’re going to chop our heads off in the night :rolleyes:
Oh okay! Sorry, I just assumed you were serious cause so many people really think like that… 😦
 
I think the best place to live is Ireland, but only for a couple of years or so. You cannot relocate there ‘permanently’, the Irish don’t like it. Unless you move up and down the country, and keep details about the length of your visit to yourself.

In terms of culture, I would guess that the U.K would be pretty similar to America. Depending on your American accent, different areas of the U.K would be more welcoming 👍 Just depends if you can take the weather (which, to be fair, is getting better each year thanks to global warming).
 
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