MSNBC suspends Imus simulcast for two weeks

[seekerz]

Whoever Sharpton/Jackson go after or fail to go after is totally irrelevant. I take a stand by not listening to rap music or allowing it in my house; so do many, many black people. Whether or not Sharpton/Jackson do the same is not the yardstick by which to measure the response of black people to Imus’s insult.

They are not my elected representatives and do not dictate my response to trash talk from supposedly responsible public figures.

My model for standards of morality and decency is Jesus Christ: wrong is wrong no matter who does it or whether it is condemned by everyone or no one. And before you bring up the forgiveness part, as I recall that’s supposed to go hand in hand with repentance (a true change or heart, not merely an apologetic movement of the lips).

Incidentally, Sharpton and Jackson were not the ones directly impacted by Imus’ statement. Even if you thought that they were truly hypocrites what does that have to do with how black women feel about what was said? Can we deal with the real issues here?

The real question to ask here is whether Imus would have lost a wink of sleep over his comment if a public outcry had not been raised.

 

[jman507]

By interact, I don’t mean having someone on his show or helping some poor black kid. I mean casual, friendly, on-the-same-level kind of interaction like he’d have with his white social circle. Judging by the other off-color comments recounted on this thread, it’s difficult to imagine that he’s ever had that kind of interaction.

The sure cure for the foot-in-mouth disease, is to really see each person as a brother or sister (not just in a ‘pie in the sky’, figurative sense). There’s no way he would have gone on radio and made that comment about his own sisters.

That’s how we should judge each such incident: what if this had been said about/done to my mother, father, sister, son or daughter? That’s the same standard we should hold our own comments to.

I don’t think you know Imus enough to judge him and his interaction with people other than white, and I guess even white people. What he said could be in dissonance from what he actually thinks.

Granted I think he’d keep much mention of his family off the air. He might make jokes like that about his sister, if he has a daughter, I would think he wouldn’t do that. Parents who knows. The father-daughter relationship is a bit different. Actually for guys like that, if they take their fatherly relationship seriously, might actually do a 180 and get worried about those comments. Some guys like to just do put down jokes on anyone and everyone, including himself. It’s one thing I find that is a big difference between males and females.

 

[aurora77]

Whoever Sharpton/Jackson go after or fail to go after is totally irrelevant. I take a stand by not listening to rap music or allowing it in my house; so do many, many black people. Whether or not Sharpton/Jackson do the same is not the yardstick by which to measure the response of black people to Imus’s insult.

They are not my elected representatives and do not dictate my response to trash talk from supposedly responsible public figures…

I’m glad to hear it. Unfortunately, the media and the two men themselves have set themselves up (unfairly) as the keepers of black culture. All I’m saying is that for bigots to complain about bigotry is hypocritical.

My model for standards of morality and decency is Jesus Christ: wrong is wrong no matter who does it or whether it is condemned by everyone or no one. And before you bring up the forgiveness part, as I recall that’s supposed to go hand in hand with repentance (a true change or heart, not merely an apologetic movement of the lips).

Incidentally, Sharpton and Jackson were not the ones directly impacted by Imus’ statement. Even if you thought that they were truly hypocrites what does that have to do with how black women feel about what was said? Can we deal with the real issues here?

The real question to ask here is whether Imus would have lost a wink of sleep over his comment if a public outcry had not been raised.

I think the real issue here isn’t black v. white, it’s the lack of respect for others that is so prevelant in today’s society. No one, black or white, should be allowed to call a woman a whore. Don Imus was wrong, black and white musicians are wrong, anyone who says such a thing without justification is wrong.

 

[jman507]

I think the real issue here isn’t black v. white, it’s the lack of respect for others that is so prevelant in today’s society. No one, black or white, should be allowed to call a woman a whore. Don Imus was wrong, black and white musicians are wrong, anyone who says such a thing without justification is wrong.

I guess for me, I won’t disagree with that, but the thing that gets me is that when it comes to women and minority empowerment, if you give in to that type of talk and think you need protection, you’ll never have empowerment. People should be decent for decency sake, but lots of time having to take the leadership for what is right, your going to come up with a lot of roadblocks of people who try to intimidate you. While it could be because you are a woman or a minority, people if they want to sabotage you will take it for any reason they see fit, doesn’t matter if your a white man or not. If you let people intimidate you, you could curtail your effort to correct something. If you look for protection, then those who protected you may one day turn and intimidate you. Then what do you do?

Empowerment is hard to come by when your easily intimidated. You don’t want to psych yourself out the minute naysayers come out. You really don’t want to psych yourself out when the naysayers have no basis for what they say, that is quite a sad sad situation. Granted while I don’t like offensive things to be said, there is no way to sterilize life to offensive things. To me, I don’t see a better lesson to a bunch of young women who have the backing of their teammates to learn that things that cranky old men are not always true, and no need to let those keep you down.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

The only difference between Imus and many, many people out their is that they have the sense to keep their mouths shut.

People like him need to rehabilitate their minds by actually interacting with real black people - not the stereotypes they have in their heads. They need to face the fact that you don’t have to be a KKK member to be racially prejudiced. My son learned that the first time a sweet, little grandma switched her handbag to the opposite side when he took a table next to hers at a restauant.

To diminish the wrongness of Imus’ comments by pointing to the use of similar words by rappers is just ridiculous. Rap music has been criticized by many public figures (not to mention parents) since it’s inception. What does that have to do with Imus? Has he been taking his inspiration from rap albums or is the implication here that rappers represent the black community?

I could go on, but what’s the point? Some people just don’t get it…

Yes, many people just do not get it.There is not excuse for disrespect, let alone insulting, degrading languange or behavior, no matter what race or belief, and being of the same race or religion is not a free card to use language disrespectful of that shared heritage.

philly.com/dailynews/local/20070414_Anti-pig_lyrics_burn_firefighter.html

Losing one’s job should not be the primary concern:
Matthew 12:36 "“But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment.”

Michael

 

[aurora77]

I guess for me, I won’t disagree with that, but the thing that gets me is that when it comes to women and minority empowerment, if you give in to that type of talk and think you need protection, you’ll never have empowerment. People should be decent for decency sake, but lots of time having to take the leadership for what is right, your going to come up with a lot of roadblocks of people who try to intimidate you. While it could be because you are a woman or a minority, people if they want to sabotage you will take it for any reason they see fit, doesn’t matter if your a white man or not. If you let people intimidate you, you could curtail your effort to correct something. If you look for protection, then those who protected you may one day turn and intimidate you. Then what do you do?

Empowerment is hard to come by when your easily intimidated. You don’t want to psych yourself out the minute naysayers come out. You really don’t want to psych yourself out when the naysayers have no basis for what they say, that is quite a sad sad situation. Granted while I don’t like offensive things to be said, there is no way to sterilize life to offensive things. To me, I don’t see a better lesson to a bunch of young women who have the backing of their teammates to learn that things that cranky old men are not always true, and no need to let those keep you down.

I definitely agree with you. As Seekerz said, we all need to take Jesus as our role model for morals and decency. BUT, there are those who don’t live that way and we need to have a tough skin to deal with them. I hope I didn’t come across as saying that women (or any other group) needs special protection, b/c that isn’t what I meant at all. I just mean that people need to behave properly; no they won’t always act correctly, we do live in a fallen world, but that shouldn’t prevent us from trying.

It really bothers me that there seems to be two standards in this situation–if you’re a black rapper, you can call women whores and otherwise denigrate them, but if you’re a white male radio host, you can’t. Neither should be doing this, but the double standard is awful.

 

[Orionthehunter]

I guess for me, I won’t disagree with that, but the thing that gets me is that when it comes to women and minority empowerment, if you give in to that type of talk and think you need protection, you’ll never have empowerment. People should be decent for decency sake, but lots of time having to take the leadership for what is right, your going to come up with a lot of roadblocks of people who try to intimidate you. While it could be because you are a woman or a minority, people if they want to sabotage you will take it for any reason they see fit, doesn’t matter if your a white man or not. If you let people intimidate you, you could curtail your effort to correct something. If you look for protection, then those who protected you may one day turn and intimidate you. Then what do you do?

Empowerment is hard to come by when your easily intimidated. You don’t want to psych yourself out the minute naysayers come out. You really don’t want to psych yourself out when the naysayers have no basis for what they say, that is quite a sad sad situation. Granted while I don’t like offensive things to be said, there is no way to sterilize life to offensive things. To me, I don’t see a better lesson to a bunch of young women who have the backing of their teammates to learn that things that cranky old men are not always true, and no need to let those keep you down.

jman, I know what you are trying to articulate. I’m a father of three daughters. It has been an extensive part of my fatherhood to reinforce in them that they are not defined by what people say about them. They are defined by what they hold in their heart to the extent they act on it and what they do when they act.

But you are missing the point here. Imus violated in spades the entire section of the Catechism that references “offenses against the truth” which is grave matter. This section talks about slander, rash judgment, calumny (the denial or denigration of ones reputation without cause) and specifically the high standard for people in the media.

The response by Christians is a prudential matter for which I won’t judge on what is right for us as a group or individual Catholics. But I see three choices:

1. 
   *]We can defend his right to say offensive things because we don’t trust the delegation of determining what is right/wrong or good/evil in a select few hands. Or,
   
   *]We can say it is not our concern and let others closer to the situation deal with it within their rights. Or,
   
   *]We can cry out on behalf of the wronged. We don’t need their permission or sanction to cry out on their behalf.
   
   You happen to have decided on the value of internal lesson which parallels what I as a father have taught my daughters. I happen to have made the prudential judgement to cry out.

 

[jman507]

jman, I know what you are trying to articulate. I’m a father of three daughters. It has been an extensive part of my fatherhood to reinforce in them that they are not defined by what people say about them. They are defined by what they hold in their heart to the extent they act on it and what they do when they act.

But you are missing the point here. Imus violated in spades the entire section of the Catechism that references “offenses against the truth” which is grave matter. This section talks about slander, rash judgment, calumny (the denial or denigration of ones reputation without cause) and specifically the high standard for people in the media.

The response by Christians is a prudential matter for which I won’t judge on what is right for us as a group or individual Catholics. But I see three choices:

1. 
   *]We can defend his right to say offensive things because we don’t trust the delegation of determining what is right/wrong or good/evil in a select few hands. Or,
   *]We can say it is not our concern and let others closer to the situation deal with it within their rights. Or,
   *]We can cry out on behalf of the wronged. We don’t need their permission or sanction to cry out on their behalf.
   You happen to have decided on the value of internal lesson which parallels what I as a father have taught my daughters. I happen to have made the prudential judgement to cry out.

1. 
   Missing the point?
   
   It is certainly true that I have decided on the value of internal lessons, but I never said their was anything wrong with crying out foul. This situation present the individuals in a special circumstance, where I do not think they need much protection, but need to be coached by their coach as to how to deal with the situation. Which I suppose, I’d rather put my focus on the internals, because the crying out position seems to be far more the trend others seem to be taken.
   
   As for your three choices you present, it is possible for one individual to agree and follow the principle behind all three. We are not exactly taking an either/or position in totality, but since we only have a finite change of stating our position we probably will be tipped further one way than the other.
   
   The point is the point you think I missed, I just really cared too much to commented on , doesn’t mean I missed it.

 

[Orionthehunter]

Missing the point?

The point is the point you think I missed, I just really cared too much to commented on , doesn’t mean I missed it.

I apologize. I should have said, you may be missing the point and motive of those who called for his head.

 

[a_priori]

Yes, many people just do not get it.There is not excuse for disrespect, let alone insulting, degrading languange or behavior, no matter what race or belief, and being of the same race or religion is not a free card to use language disrespectful of that shared heritage.

This may be, but comedy during recent years has been fraught with people making fun of other people. For some reason it seems to be funny when someone else gets goofed on. It’s how we seem to be wired.

Everyone eventually gets slammed. I think the key is to strike a balance. It is not always easy to straddle the line between a joke at someone else’s expense and hurting someone.

 

[seekerz]

I’m glad to hear it. Unfortunately, the media and the two men themselves have set themselves up (unfairly) as the keepers of black culture. All I’m saying is that for bigots to complain about bigotry is hypocritical.

I think the real issue here isn’t black v. white, it’s the lack of respect for others that is so prevelant in today’s society. No one, black or white, should be allowed to call a woman a whore. Don Imus was wrong, black and white musicians are wrong, anyone who says such a thing without justification is wrong.

What about the rest of Imus’ comment Aurora? As far as I know, the “nappy-headed” comment has only ever been used to denigrate black women.

It’s true that there’s a general decline in standards of decency, but I insist that that includes a certain liberty to voice racially-insensitive comments.

As children of a God who took a look at his finished handiwork and saw that it was all good, this is something we just cannot accept. If you call a woman a whore, you are denigrating her and offending God; if you call a black woman “nappy-headed”, you are criticising God’s own handiwork.

 

[aurora77]

What about the rest of Imus’ comment Aurora? As far as I know, the “nappy-headed” comment has only ever been used to denigrate black women.

It’s true that there’s a general decline in standards of decency, but I insist that that includes a certain liberty to voice racially-insensitive comments.

As children of a God who took a look at his finished handiwork and saw that it was all good, this is something we just cannot accept. If you call a woman a whore, you are denigrating her and offending God; if you call a black woman “nappy-headed”, you are criticising God’s own handiwork.

OK, Don Imus is a racist jerk. But the question still remains, why can Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson be racist yet Don Imus must be immediately thrown off the air?

 

[seekerz]

How do you fire a rapper other than by banning their music from your home and car? Trust me, if sensible, decent, Christian mothers knew, those guys would all be lining up outside of soup kitchens.

 

[a_priori]

OK, Don Imus is a racist jerk. But the question still remains, why can Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson be racist yet Don Imus must be immediately thrown off the air?

I just did an internet search on Sharpton and Jackson. Everyone should take the time to do this. Perhaps Imus IS a “racist jerk” but these two can hardly “throw the first stone”.

Leaders should bring people together and not continue to needlessly polarize us.

 

[Kitty_Chan]

This may be, but comedy during recent years has been fraught with people making fun of other people. For some reason it seems to be funny when someone else gets goofed on. It’s how we seem to be wired.

Everyone eventually gets slammed. I think the key is to strike a balance. It is not always easy to straddle the line between a joke at someone else’s expense and hurting someone.

Comedy is like that, look at the stupid “Americas Funniest Videos” thats offensive as talking about people. George Carlin has in his recent bits the thought that they could come up with the “jump to death in the Grand Canyon” and he bets people would sign up for the show. I dont think hes wrong. While I think George is getting more bittered there is still honesty in what he says.

Comedy is honesty maybe thats what is upsetting it looks at how we are. While we are not racists we harbour through popular culture and history aspects of racisism. Little cliches we use in everyday language. Thats what Imus did. Still crossed the line but thats what he did.

If he is a honest racist then he wouldnt have watched the game to begin with. I remember one time in high school I had a friend who was chinese. there are 3 of us watching tv and the news has something bad about chinese on it. the one friend gets mad and starts ranting about the chinese. the other 2 of us start giggling then laughing and the one ranting doesnt catch on her own friend is chinese! She wasnt racist, she was reacting as society and stereotypes dictate.

Teams, Schools, Clubs have terms against each other. All races have stereotypes and derogatory terms to use against others. Religions have derogatory terms against others. Thats what Imus brought out, it reminded us how we are. And our refusal to accept his apology was short sighted. It could have been used to grow and learn. But hate of Imus took the center stage. If we all jump him then we look more righteous.

Then again the team did accept his apology, perhaps they all should have waited for what they thought. Instead of deciding before that happened.

All that won in the end of the day, was hate.

 

[Mt_28_19_20]

This may be, but comedy during recent years has been fraught with people making fun of other people. For some reason it seems to be funny when someone else gets goofed on. It’s how we seem to be wired.

Everyone eventually gets slammed. I think the key is to strike a balance. It is not always easy to straddle the line between a joke at someone else’s expense and hurting someone.

some people make a living by disrespecting others, and often themselves at the same time. They can be so called comedians, radio or TV personalities, musicians, actor/actresses, prostitutes, etc…

Funny how we often are tempted to straddle the line between good humor and hurting or disrespecting others, instead of preferring not to go near the fence. Would we be so daring if there was a ferocious dog on one side of the fence?

Michael

 

[whatevergirl]

Totally think he should have been suspended/fired.

But…my parish’s priest on Sunday asked the question in his homily, referring back to this whole Imus thing…“if he insulted the RCC, would he have been fired? Or would everyone just have laughed it off?”

Great question, indeed!!

 

[JLSacred]

Totally think he should have been suspended/fired.

But…my parish’s priest on Sunday asked the question in his homily, referring back to this whole Imus thing…“if he insulted the RCC, would he have been fired? Or would everyone just have laughed it off?”

Great question, indeed!!

Doubtful.

 

[a_priori]

"ATLANTA – Oprah Winfrey will host a town hall meeting Monday on race that will feature students from Spelman College.

The show is called “After Imus, Now What?”

wsbtv.com/news/12143209/detail.html

Imus was obviously wrong but he is not a Grand Wizard of the KKK. Is he now the poster child for all that is wrong in the struggle against racism? This is ridiculous and Imus is now a red herring. (IMHO)

 

[jman507]

I apologize. I should have said, you may be missing the point and motive of those who called for his head.

I can’t remember if I said that he souldn’t have been fired or not. I don’t think I did. Although I do think he should have been suspended, but not fired, as of yet. On the other hand, you might not want to be keeping the guy on, just waiting for him to say something to fire him. Then again, I’m sure they really cared about the ad money leaving, I think there might be the tie breaker of appearing to take the side of cultural diversity (thats after the money question.) I think the best situation would be if he came back from suspension and really tackled the subject.

I guess though in the end, I see it to be much more of a side issue on the subject than the main issue, so I don’t really care too much if he was fired or not. I’m sure people have been fired for less and people have been retained for more. The world doesn’t tend to give any type of consistancy on justice and injustice. You’ve got to play the cards given, cause that’s the only hand you have right now. What I care more about is if Imus has learned a lesson he has taken to heart and will keep it in his mind. I hope he got what he needed. I hope the team learns a good lesson too.

The other reason I make my concern more for the team is that, the dynamics of whom the comment was meant to describe. If it was an attack on a single person, I’d probably not posting the same posts. The team is an elite NCAA D1 team. I don’t think I could really make an assessment of the situation if it was just an individual. These girls have good things going for them. They would not have gotten to where they were if they were not highly motivated and could handle some adversity. While there might be a person or two with self-esteam problems with anyone on the team, I doubt it is an epidemic, I think they would have had their season ended much sooner. They have their teammates as support. They are at a good age to learn a lesson, not to believe everything someone says. Your not as good as what they say, nor are you as bad. If they are going to take any type of leadership positions, you will have to learn to remain firm in your value and not get blow around by what everyone says.

I think I can understand the motive, it’s hard to see it doing much of anything to get nearer the ideal, unless people internalize the message. Granted one could justify it even given it will not do much to get nearer the idea, and I don’t think it is wrong to call for his fireing. For me, I’d rather have the girls know a paper bear is not a bear, just my bias.