MSU professor William Penn pulled from classroom after attack on Republicans

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SMGS127 said:
That’s what his study did!!! I am making a point about how horrible his supposed “study” was because they handpicked the 32 most liberal schools! How can you not see that? Do you honestly think I’m being serious? :banghead:
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My apologies. I didn’t realize you we joking. I’m out…
 
SaintAugustine said:
My apologies. I didn’t realize you we joking. I’m out…
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I apologize for going a little overboard with my post too; I cut it down a bit. But yes, I was being facetious to make a point about how ridiculously biased his so-called “study” was.
 
It’s funny how all the leftists and abortionist-in-chief voters bleat about “diversity” yet when you look at the universities, you’d be really hard pressed to find a republican professor these days.
 
meltzerboy said:
“…academia would not be trying (so) hard to sway them.” As a college professor myself, I would say that most of the “academicians” I know or know of try to teach their students to think for themselves and to think (and write) critically. Most of us don’t have the time or inclination for this nonsense perpetrated by Prof. Penn.
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This is largely true in my experience as well. Of course, I teach in a business school, which some on campus seem to see as a right wing plot, so that might affect my experience. Even in the business school there seems to be a fair number of liberals, but political persuasion in my school is a minor thing, nobody seems to care whether you are liberal or conservative.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
I guess my college experience wasn’t reality. Gosh, I totally forget that. :rolleyes: I’m not going to have a chit-chat with someone who thinks that I’m not “dealing in reality.” So, have a nice night. 👍
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It was being used as an insult, but as a point of clarification about your experiences versus account after account showing most environments to be quite different. The problem is basing your perceptions off of your anecdotal experiences and not looking at multiple cases of bias in texts, teaching, and propaganda. That’s the point.

If you’d rather not debate because an argument doesn’t fit your worldview, so be it, but don’t pretend it is because you got your feelings hurt, because no one was trying to do so.
 
Darryl1958 said:
Dennis Prager speaks of the American university as a left-wing seminary.

There is a lot of truth in that.
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Anyone attempting to argue that academia in general has not been generally quite liberal isn’t being honest. It is like arguing that the media doesn’t have a conservative bias, when the majority of media members admit to self-identifying as liberals, or arguing that the majority of NASCAR fans are not conservative. There really isn’t much point in arguing with people like that.

Now if you want to argue Meltzer’s point that although they may be liberal, there isn’t any indoctrination going on to any large degree, that is a different argument, but disputing stats about a liberal tilt in colleges (and even lower education) is not worth anyone’s time.
 
Julian_Bashir said:
Anyone attempting to argue that academia in general has not been generally quite liberal isn’t being honest. It is like arguing that the media doesn’t have a conservative bias, when the majority of media members admit to self-identifying as liberals, or arguing that the majority of NASCAR fans are not conservative. There really isn’t much point in arguing with people like that.

Now if you want to argue Meltzer’s point that although they may be liberal, there isn’t any indoctrination going on to any large degree, that is a different argument, but disputing stats about a liberal tilt in colleges (and even lower education) is not worth anyone’s time.
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It actually is an interesting question as to why there are not more conservatives in higher education. After all, there are people who I have worked with for twenty years and I am still not sure how they vote. So it is not like their is a litmus test, at least in some fields. One possibility is that higher education is very egalitarian, so bad behavior is rarely punished and good behavior is rarely rewarded, except with more work. I find that frustrating, I am wonder if that is related to my being conservative, but that is just speculation.
 
meltzerboy said:
He unleashed an intentional attack on Republicans and on Mitt and Ann Romney in particular for at least two class sessions. The University did the right thing in suspending him. However, he should not be on paid-semester leave; he should be fired instead. Free speech in the classroom is one thing; advocating personal political views in an uncharitable way to a captive student audience is quite another.
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Actually all he did was talk from his personal perspective. Everything except the dead skin cell thing, has been put out in the media, time, and time again. To be fair, judging by the last election, a majority of Americans feel as he does. So, his views are in fact popular mainstream views. Penn appears to be setting the stage for a semester of thoughtful discussion. It’s not his fault that Republican theories , and practices don’t stand up well to the harsh light of reality.

But it looks like the Republicans have drawn the curtains on this debate. Score one for the dead guys. lol
 
Julian_Bashir said:
It was being used as an insult, but as a point of clarification about your experiences versus account after account showing most environments to be quite different. The problem is basing your perceptions off of your anecdotal experiences and not looking at multiple cases of bias in texts, teaching, and propaganda. That’s the point.

If you’d rather not debate because an argument doesn’t fit your worldview, so be it, but don’t pretend it is because you got your feelings hurt, because no one was trying to do so.
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You said it several times, don’t try and back track now. A simple apology would have been better.
 
Why should a student who has put forward considerable effort and $ to attend MSU have to listen to a bloated overloaded mouth spout his political ignorance. He proved himself to be as dumb as he spoke by being paid as a professor who was expected to educate his class; not stage his mirror reflected pose.

If he has tenure - he shouldn’t; nor should he receive pay while on suspension. Perhaps some time spent as one who works for a living will be well spent. $146 grand to him?:nope:
 
ishii said:
The problem, Kendra, is that while the nation is pretty much evenly split between conservative/liberal, the colleges and universities are overwhelmingly liberal. So its not just a matter of “find a school the fits your political views.” Moreover, many Americans don’t even have developed political views upon entering college - as they may come from apolitical families, etc.

The liberal schools far outnumber the few “conservative” schools. In fact, what many call “conservative” are really just orthodox Catholic - such as Thomas Aquinas College or Ave Maria college.

Ishii
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I think that is a sorry excuse and if it was so important then people would find a way. Obviously it isn’t as important as people on this thread are making it. 🤷
 
Mickey_Finn said:
Actually all he did was talk from his personal perspective. Everything except the dead skin cell thing, has been put out in the media, time, and time again. To be fair, judging by the last election, a majority of Americans feel as he does. So, his views are in fact popular mainstream views. Penn appears to be setting the stage for a semester of thoughtful discussion. It’s not his fault that Republican theories , and practices don’t stand up well to the harsh light of reality.

But it looks like the Republicans have drawn the curtains on this debate. Score one for the dead guys. lol
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Well, he should NOT have “(talked) from his personal perspective.” And, according to the article, he did more than just talk in a sedate manner about Republicans in general and Mitt and Ann Romney in particular. I am also not sure what his political commentary had to do with the content of the course he was teaching. Such behavior is, in my view, inexcusable in any teacher, and I say this as a liberal professor. It is not an issue of freedom of speech in this case, but one of attempted political indoctrination to a captive student audience.
 
meltzerboy said:
Well, he should NOT have “(talked) from his personal perspective.” And, according to the article, he did more than just talk in a sedate manner about Republicans in general and Mitt and Ann Romney in particular. I’m also not sure what his political commentary had to do with the content of the course he was teaching. Such behavior is, in my view, inexcusable in any teacher, and I say this as a liberal professor. It is not an issue of freedom of speech in this case, but one of attempted political indoctrination to a captive student audience.
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I watched the video. I’m not a College Boy so to speak. But I’ve had to sit through way too many classes in my career. So, from that perspective the students seemed to take it all in stride. The things he said would be food for thought only.

Personally, I don’t approve of bad talking someone’s wife. It does show a certain weakness of character in by book. But politics is any ugly business anyway you slice it. When you bring it up feathers will get rustled.

Now why Educators seem to lean towards the left is an interesting question. Mechanics tend to be mechanical, and -]firefighters tend to be /-] Librarians tend to be organized. I guess it’s just a natural flow of individual talents. Each day I see a variety of people doing a variety of jobs. Many seem perfectly suited to their chosen occupation. Sometimes not so much. I think if someone is lucky enough to find a profession that’s suits their talents that’s a blessing. So, if after Mr.Penn’s class student were critical thinkers then he’s done a good job by them.
 
Mickey_Finn said:
I watched the video. I’m not a College Boy so to speak. But I’ve had to sit through way too many classes in my career. So, from that perspective the students seemed to take it all in stride. The things he said would be food for thought only.

Personally, I don’t approve of bad talking someone’s wife. It does show a certain weakness of character in by book. But politics is any ugly business anyway you slice it. When you bring it up feathers will get rustled.

Now why Educators seem to lean towards the left is an interesting question. Mechanics tend to be mechanical, and -]firefighters tend to be /-] Librarians tend to be organized. I guess it’s just a natural flow of individual talents. Each day I see a variety of people doing a variety of jobs. Many seem perfectly suited to their chosen occupation. Sometimes not so much. I think if someone is lucky enough to find a profession that’s suits their talents that’s a blessing. So, if after Mr.Penn’s class student were critical thinkers then he’s done a good job by them.
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Hurling partisan insults makes for “critical thinking?” How so?
 
Mickey_Finn said:
. But politics is any ugly business anyway you slice it. When you bring it up feathers will get rustled.
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This is politics? I though college was about education, free flow of ideas, etc. Not indoctrination like the “professor” was obviously doing. I’ve had teachers like the prof. even in high school. Believe me, they weren’t talented.
Mickey_Finn said:
Now why Educators seem to lean towards the left is an interesting question. Mechanics tend to be mechanical, and -]firefighters tend to be /-] Librarians tend to be organized. I guess it’s just a natural flow of individual talents. Each day I see a variety of people doing a variety of jobs. Many seem perfectly suited to their chosen occupation. Sometimes not so much. I think if someone is lucky enough to find a profession that’s suits their talents that’s a blessing. So, if after Mr.Penn’s class student were critical thinkers then he’s done a good job by them.
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So - liberalism is merely the logical talent of being an educator? So all of those (who are in the minority) who are not liberal are not talented? Your argument, Mickey, is an example of valid but “unsound” logic: in that your premise is not true. My philosophy professor who taught logic 1 was a liberal - he used to rip on Dan Quayle - but he never did the kind of thing that this professor Penn did. He was a good teacher - a liberal to be sure - but he taught logic and didn’t use his position to indoctrinate or engage in angry political outbursts. And he was pretty funny.

Ishii
 
ishii said:
So - liberalism is merely the logical talent of being an educator? So all of those (who are in the minority) who are not liberal are not talented? Your argument, Mickey, is an example of valid but “unsound” logic: in that your premise is not true. My philosophy professor who taught logic 1 was a liberal - he used to rip on Dan Quayle - but he never did the kind of thing that this professor Penn did. He was a good teacher - a liberal to be sure - but he taught logic and didn’t use his position to indoctrinate or engage in angry political outbursts. And he was pretty funny.

Ishii
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Yep. On the flipside, my US History teacher in high school was a conservative, and he never did anything like this professor. With regards to real critical thinking skills, he would take contrary views, such as presenting the case for slavery from the viewpoint of the pre-Civil War South, which helped us to really dig into the issue critically, rather than just have history told to us.
 
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