Muhammad and the NT

[Angelos]

Peace be upon you all,
What Christians failed to understand is that we believe in the true teachings of Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet of Allah, he taught the same message that Muhammad (pbuh) taught, to worship Allah alone without any partner. as we believe in the all previous Prophets.That’s why Allah sent the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be the last prophet and the Quran and he guarantee it from corruption.

You dear Muslims believe in the lost message of a pathetic messenger named Issa (nothing be upon him!), who failed to establish the true religion of Allah on earth. Well, do not worry because you have a superman from Arabia that can fly to Jerusalem and do the thing that Allah’s all other pathetic messengers could not achieve.

We Christians believe in Jesus the Lord, who guaranteed that His message would remain with us for ever:

Matthew 24:35 “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away”.

Matthew 28: 20 "And remember, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

We do not need to believe in a superman-like prophet that despises all other prophets as bunglers and writes a book that is nothing more than a chronicle of inept messengers since we have the grace and truth in Jesus Christ:

John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came about through Jesus Christ.

the original bible has been corrupted by men but you can find some uncorrupted verses, people have mixed Allah’s words with man’s words. its enough to reject the whole book if there is a single verse corrupted.

The original Bible has been corrupted by Muhammed bin Abdallah and his scribes. Thank God’s power and wisdom that we still have the genuine Bible because our loving God did not allow Mohammed and his scribes to replace the true word of God with a book full of fables and every sort of errors. Although some verses in the Quran are genuine because they had been copied from the Bible, it is enough to reject the whole Quran if there is a single verse corrupted. I can show you hundreds of verses with discrepancies and mistakes.

That’s why Allah sent the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be the last prophet and the Quran and he guarantee it from corruption

The Quran itself denies that all the verses it contains are original. Allah changes His own word with no good reason other than a sign of His might:

16: 101And when We put a revelation in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth.

According to the Quran, Allah’s message had always been mixed with Satanic verses:

22: 52 Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed in respect of that which he recited thereof.

This means the Quran was deleted and re-written for so many times! Interesting indeed!

In another verse Muhammed’s scribes confess that their Scripture is constantly perverted:

41: 40 Those who pervert the Truth in Our Signs are not hidden from Us.

Idolaters are said in the Quran to be doubtful about Allah’s message. This might be pointing at the claims of falsification:

38: 8 What! Has the Message been sent to him, (of all persons) among us? But they are in doubt concerning My (own) Message!

Finally, Allah declares that Muslims have the potential to break their oaths and distort the Truth:

16: 95 Nor sell the Covenant of Allah for a miserable price: for with Allah is (a prize) far better for you, if ye only knew.

What Muslims still fail to comprehend is that we cannot believe in the Islamic scripture while it is apparent that it has been perverted and not preserved!
However, Muslims keep arguing …

Peace & blessings to all,
Angelos N.

 

[inJESUS]

Peace be upon you all,

What Christians failed to understand is that we believe in the true teachings of Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet of Allah, he taught the same message that Muhammad (pbuh) taught, to worship Allah alone without any partner. as we believe in the all previous Prophets. the original bible has been corrupted by men but you can find some uncorrupted verses, people have mixed Allah’s words with man’s words. its enough to reject the whole book if there is a single verse corrupted.

I can show you hundreds biblical verses say that Jesus denied that he God.

That’s why Allah sent the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be the last prophet and the Quran and he guarantee it from corruption.

Christians failed to understand this and just keep arguing………

Peace.

yes we know all this…thousands of messengers failed but Muhammad made it because he was so beloved by Allah that he granted him all his sexual desires including the noble desire of marrying his adopted son’s wife…but what you fail to realize is that Muhammad quoted PAUL, whom you think was a fraud who corrupted Issa’s message.

 

[Booklover]

Peace be upon you all,

What Christians failed to understand is that we believe in the true teachings of Jesus (pbuh) as a prophet of Allah, he taught the same message that Muhammad (pbuh) taught, to worship Allah alone without any partner. as we believe in the all previous Prophets. the original bible has been corrupted by men but you can find some uncorrupted verses, people have mixed Allah’s words with man’s words. its enough to reject the whole book if there is a single verse corrupted.

I can show you hundreds biblical verses say that Jesus denied that he God.

That’s why Allah sent the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) to be the last prophet and the Quran and he guarantee it from corruption.

Christians failed to understand this and just keep arguing………

Peace.

Same old, same old! Why does it matter to you whether Jesus is God or not? Who are you trying to convince, yourself? You do not want to admit that Jesus is God, because that would mean that Islam is a complete lie and Muhammad was a false prophet who created a false god and invented revelations!

You continue to parrot the same old tired phrases that we’ve heard so many times before.:yawn:

Islam is the security blanket that makes you feel superior, but you have no proof that anything that Muhammad said was true. He never did anything to prove prophethood. All he did was to do proclaim himself a “prophet” and therefore he is! Then he came up with a book full of errors and absurdities that proclaimed his validity and presto, he’s verified! Do you not see how ridiculous circular “reasoning” is?

What proof do you have about Muhammad? You Muslims keep coming here to disprove our faith in order to prove yours, which means that your so-called “proof” is zilch! If you had real proof you’d provide it.

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Just to let you know that I found the picture you added into your signature deeply offending, I can’t even put my eyes on it. That is why I skip your posts. You know how we Muslims fordib portraying Prophets.

This is a Catholic site! Painting is a gift from God, just like music and sculpture, and any man who says different is not from God! Muslims accept blindly anything that Muhammad said whether it makes sense or not. If Muhammad had said that white is black and vice versa, you’d accept that as well, correct? Is there any talent that Islam does not forbid?

I suppose it makes sense to believe that the devil sleeps up people’s noses at night and has to be flushed out every morning, or that an angel will not enter a room that has a picture or a dog! How ridiculous! Muhammad must have been mentally sick!

If you can believe that about the devil, why can’t God assume a human nature since God is infinitely more powerful than the devil?? Explain that to us.

On another website a person made this comment:

(In India), when I greeted a christian friend with “Merry Christmas”, a muslim resident of the same apartment glared at me and warned:
"Next time, you are not to say that, as God can have no Son".

What makes Muslims think that they have the right to impose their will on others??

And yes, I have attached a picture, because it’s Christmas and we’re celebrating the birth of our Savior.

Vickie

 

[Chris_LaRock]

Since Muslims do not entirely disbelieve the Bible but only saying that some of its contents are corrupted, they can say that the said Quranic verses merely correcting its Bible counterpart.

This is the same claim the LDS church makes in justifying the book of mormon’s existence. If a Muslim or LDS person were to admit the Bible to be without error, they would have to ditch the teachings of thier respective ‘prophets’ and become Christian. Pride won’t allow them to do that, so they must claim the bible is corrupted.

 

[Reuben_J]

Just to let you know that I found the picture you added into your signature deeply offending, I can’t even put my eyes on it. That is why I skip your posts. You know how we Muslims fordib portraying Prophets.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Shalom bro Joseph.

I know Muslims forbid portraying prophets. However this really puzzled me. Since you are at this subject and to satisfy my curiousity - Is the picture offensive because you are forbidden to portray the prophets or the picture offends you? It’s hard for a Christian to understand that mentality. So if you don’t mind?

 

[Reuben_J]

This is the same claim the LDS church makes in justifying the book of mormon’s existence. If a Muslim or LDS person were to admit the Bible to be without error, they would have to ditch the teachings of thier respective ‘prophets’ and become Christian. Pride won’t allow them to do that, so they must claim the bible is corrupted.

Hi Chris.

That would be equating a Muslim with LDS and that may not go well with them. But well, this is a discussion board. I have to say you right in making that’s comparison only that it is not just due to pride. Mohammad had an agenda of his own, and that played into the Devil’s trickery.

 

[inJESUS]

It is an ufficial Islamic teaching that what agrees with Quran is ok and what doesn’t is a nono, and what’s in between is neutral to them. No cult can survive without bashing others’ scriptures. Islam cannot survive if they don’t claim the Bible is corrupt even though their prophet did not say this. Ask them when, how, by who, they don’t know and don’t care because Muhammad must have been a prophet, just like Joseph Smith.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam Angelos;

I wish my conversion had not impeded you from calling me a brother of yours!

While you are no more my Brother in faith, but you are still my Brother in humanity : “O mankind! We created you from a single pair of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other" (Qur’an 049:013)

What I still fail to understand - even if you bring up a thousand of Hadiths - is that the Quran is replete with verses giving the vivid descriptions of Paradise and Hell. What could those unknown or unseen rewards be then?

It goes without saying that the Hadith speaks about things in Paradise not an eye has seen in this life and not an ear has heard in this life and which did not enter the human heart in this life. I shall also bring to your attention a fundamental difference between **“heard” **and “heard about”. The Hadith does not say “things not an ear has heard about”, if it was the case, then you will be right, but the Hadith says “things not ear has heard” meaning the sounds of Paradise are different from anything a human ear has ever heard. Therefore even if Qur’an or Hadiths described the things which exist in Paradise, it stays that these things are not comparable to anything the eye has seen, or the ear has heard or which entered the human heart in this life.

Now I come back to Paul and I ask again: what are the things, which according to Isaiah, quoted by Paul that an “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him….” But Paul added “God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit…” (1 Cor 2:9-10)?
If you don’t mind, I would like a clear and concise answer, I mean no long verses, but just enumerate one by one and give verse numbers as reference,these things which since the beginning not an eye has seen and not an ear has heard and which did not enter the human heart but “God hath revealed them unto you by his Spirit…”. Many Thanks.

But your noble prophet used the same words apostle Paul used in the New Testament! The context is definitely different, but the sentence structure is amazingly identical! And your noble messenger attributes that sentence to Allah in the same way as Paul does What a coincidence indeed…

That’s all you can say: a coincidence. Though I want to know just what Paul wrote exactly? Please consider the following:

NIV: “However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”

NASB: “But just as it is written: “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that god has prepared for those who love him."

THE MESSAGE: “No one’s ever seen or heard anything like this, never so much as imagined anything quite like it— What God has arranged for those who love him”

AMPLIFIED BIBLE: “As the Scripture says, what eye has not seen and ear has not heard and has not entered into the heart of man, [all that] God has prepared (made and keeps ready) for those who love Him.

NLT: “That is what the Scriptures mean when they say “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him”

KJV: “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him”

CEV: “But it is just as the Scriptures say, "What God has planned for people who love him is more than eyes have seen or ears have heard. It has never even entered our minds!”

ARABIC LIFE APPLICATION BIBLE
وَلَكِنْ، وَفْقاً لِمَا كُتِبَ: «إِنَّ مَا لَمْ تَرَهُ عَيْنٌ، وَلَمْ تَسْمَعْ بِهِ أُذُنٌ،** وَلَمْ يَخْطُرْ عَلَى بَالِ بَشَرٍ** قَدْ أَعَدَّهُ اللهُ لِمُحِبِّيهِ!»

What I bolded in the Arabic verse above means “did not occur to a human mind” or “did not strike a human mind” or “did not come to or into a human mind”

Just what did Paul say exactly? Did he say mind or did say heart? I mean, these translators were supposed to read from the 5000+ original Greek manuscripts right! And I guess there is a Greek word for heart and another one for mind; there is a big difference between the two: mind is about imagination and heart is about desire.
The Noble Prophet said “did not enter or come to a human heart (Khatara al’a kalbi bashar)”, meaning was never entered or came to a human heart.

Aslam reported that “Omar Ibn Al Khatab said: “It came to my heart (Khatara Al’a Kalbi) the desire to eat some fish” His companion mounted his horse and went to the market to get some and came back quickly. Omar went to see the horse and found him sweating, he then said to his companion: you have tortured your horse for my desire, by Allah! Omar will not eat from your fish"

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam Reuben;

Shalom bro Joseph.
I know Muslims forbid portraying prophets. However this really puzzled me. Since you are at this subject and to satisfy my curiousity - Is the picture offensive because you are forbidden to portray the prophets or the picture offends you? It’s hard for a Christian to understand that mentality. So if you don’t mind?

It is because for Muslims it is forbiden to portray Prophets.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

This is a Catholic site! Painting is a gift from God, just like music and sculpture, and any man who says different is not from God! Muslims accept blindly anything that Muhammad said whether it makes sense or not. If Muhammad had said that white is black and vice versa, you’d accept that as well, correct? Is there any talent that Islam does not forbid?

I suppose it makes sense to believe that the devil sleeps up people’s noses at night and has to be flushed out every morning, or that an angel will not enter a room that has a picture or a dog! How ridiculous! Muhammad must have been mentally sick!

If you can believe that about the devil, why can’t God assume a human nature since God is infinitely more powerful than the devil?? Explain that to us.

On another website a person made this comment:

(In India), when I greeted a christian friend with “Merry Christmas”, a muslim resident of the same apartment glared at me and warned:
"Next time, you are not to say that, as God can have no Son".

What makes Muslims think that they have the right to impose their will on others??

And yes, I have attached a picture, because it’s Christmas and we’re celebrating the birth of our Savior.

Vickie

Salaam Vickie;
I hope you are doing well and good you and your loved ones and by the way " Merry Christmas" in advance!

Joseph.

 

[Booklover]

Salaam Reuben;

It is because for Muslims it is forbiden to portray Prophets.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Hello, Joseph!

Why??

Vickie

 

[Reuben_J]

Salaam Reuben;

It is because for Muslims it is forbiden to portray Prophets.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Sorry bro, you don’t reassure us at all. Bearing in mind that some of the members or readers of this forum have experienced first hands injustice perpetuated by Muslims in some Muslim countries, your answer is not reassurance at all.

You try to avoid someone because what he/she has is offensive according to your religion. Catholics keep statues and pictures that remind them of holy figures in their religion. I gather you will not visit me for Christmas because you would find those articles in my home. In a more extreme cases we see religous monuments being destroyed. Why? Because they don’t conform to the standard of Islam.

Back to the subject, what’s wrong with pictures (drawing) of prophets? Are we so stupid that we cannot control ourselves that we would worship the pictures?

 

[Joseph_Alison]

Salaam Reuben;
It is because for Muslims it is forbidden to portray Prophets.
Salaam.
Joseph.

Hello, Joseph!
Why??
Vickie

Greetings Vikie;
The Prophets are the closest people to Allah (SWT) and the purest beings after the Angels. A picture of anyone of them, as a way of remembrance, would soon (Why not?) become a statue, something which people made with their own hands! and before which some (many!) would be standing and bowing in godliness and humility. It may as well end up that people would believe it has some sort of power it does not have (i.e. benefit or harm them), or believe it can help intercede for them before Allah.

Kind Regards.
Joseph

 

[inJESUS]

Greetings Vikie;
The Prophets are the closest people to Allah (SWT) and the purest beings after the Angels. A picture of anyone of them, as a way of remembrance, would soon (Why not?) become a statue, something which people made with their own hands! and before which some (many!) would be standing and bowing in godliness and humility. It may as well end up that people would believe it has some sort of power it does not have (i.e. benefit or harm them), or believe it can help intercede for them before Allah.

Kind Regards.
Joseph

although it is a very far-fetched reason, as am sure no monotheistic would expect a picture or statue to have any power , in the same that a family picture means nothing except emotional remembrance, but what about curtains with animal pictures on them or cushions with some drawings that Muhammad tore up with extreme anger? did he really expect people to bow down to cushions and curtains because they have some drawings on them? and what is the difference between a statue and the Kaaba theologically? you bow toward Kaaba and you turn around Kaaba and you kiss it, so how is it different from any statue ?

 

[Angelos]

It goes without saying that the Hadith speaks about things in Paradise not an eye has seen in this life and not an ear has heard in this life and which did not enter the human heart in this life. I shall also bring to your attention a fundamental difference between **“heard” **and “heard about”. The Hadith does not say “things not an ear has heard about”, if it was the case, then you will be right, but the Hadith says “things not ear has heard” meaning the sounds of Paradise are different from anything a human ear has ever heard. Therefore even if Qur’an or Hadiths described the things which exist in Paradise, it stays that these things are not comparable to anything the eye has seen, or the ear has heard or which entered the human heart in this life.

Hi Joseph! Welcome back! It is good to see u respond to me
This message of your denies the supposed link you highlighted between the Hadith and the Quran verse in your previous post. Besides, the Hadith in question does not read “no ear has heard anything”, but “things not ear has heard”. If the Hadith meant that it was impossible to hear the sounds in Paradise - as u claim - it would say “nothing has been heard by the human ear”. The Hadith clearly states that there are many things prepared by Allah, and it is impossible to hear those things as well as see or know them. Finally, your recent interpretation of the Hadith has reduced it to nothing more than a clear fact rather than a prophecy or mystery. We all already know that it is impossible to hear or see or know the things in Paradise while living on earth!
(The sense of the verb “hear about” is closely associated with the verb “hear” because for someone to hear about something, another person must hear sth first! More to the point, the Hadith also refers to the abilities of sight and knowledge. Waiting for your differentiation between “know” and “know about”)

Now I come back to Paul and I ask again: what are the things, which according to Isaiah, quoted by Paul that an “Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him….” But Paul added “God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit…” (1 Cor 2:9-10)?
If you don’t mind, I would like a clear and concise answer, I mean no long verses, but just enumerate one by one and give verse numbers as reference,these things which since the beginning not an eye has seen and not an ear has heard and which did not enter the human heart but “God hath revealed them unto you by his Spirit…”. Many Thanks.

I have already answered your question through references to apostle Paul’s epistle. Is it too difficult for you? I know Paul wrote many things that could not be grasped easily. What about the things the Hadith talks about? Would you please give me *a precise list *of the things Allah talked about? Many thanks.

to be continued…

 

[Angelos]

That’s all you can say: a coincidence. Though I want to know just what Paul wrote exactly? Please consider the following:

NIV: “However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”

NASB: “But just as it is written: “Things which eye has not seen and ear has not heard, and which have not entered the heart of man, all that god has prepared for those who love him."

THE MESSAGE: “No one’s ever seen or heard anything like this, never so much as imagined anything quite like it— What God has arranged for those who love him”

AMPLIFIED BIBLE: “As the Scripture says, what eye has not seen and ear has not heard and has not entered into the heart of man, [all that] God has prepared (made and keeps ready) for those who love Him.

NLT: “That is what the Scriptures mean when they say “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, and no mind has imagined what God has prepared for those who love him”

KJV: “But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him”

CEV: “But it is just as the Scriptures say, "What God has planned for people who love him is more than eyes have seen or ears have heard. It has never even entered our minds!”

ARABIC LIFE APPLICATION BIBLE
وَلَكِنْ، وَفْقاً لِمَا كُتِبَ: «إِنَّ مَا لَمْ تَرَهُ عَيْنٌ، وَلَمْ تَسْمَعْ بِهِ أُذُنٌ،** وَلَمْ يَخْطُرْ عَلَى بَالِ بَشَرٍ** قَدْ أَعَدَّهُ اللهُ لِمُحِبِّيهِ!»

What I bolded in the Arabic verse above means “did not occur to a human mind” or “did not strike a human mind” or “did not come to or into a human mind”

What did Allah say in Quran 32: 17 exactly? I have the translations below with variations. Some verses exclude the word “eye” altogether:

032: 017 Now no person knows what delights of the eye are kept hidden (in reserve) for them, as a reward for their (good) Deeds. (quran.al-islam.com)

032.017 No soul knoweth what is kept hid for them of joy, as a reward for what they used to do. (www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/quran)

032: 017 So no soul knows what refreshment of the eyes is hidden for them: a reward for what they did.(muslim.org/english-quran/quran.htm)

Soul or person? Refreshment or joy? reward or rewards??? Did these Muslims receive different revelations from Allah?

Just what did Paul say exactly? Did he say mind or did say heart? I mean, these translators were supposed to read from the 5000+ original Greek manuscripts right! And I guess there is a Greek word for heart and another one for mind; there is a big difference between the two: mind is about imagination and heart is about desire.
The Noble Prophet said “did not enter or come to a human heart (Khatara al’a kalbi bashar)”, meaning was never entered or came to a human heart.

mind imagined: tn6 in Greek “entered the heart”, an Old Testament expression, in which the heart functions like the mind (bible.org/netbible/)

This means the Quran copied something else from the Old testament.

Peace to you my brother (through Adam)
Angelos N.

 

[inJESUS]

I have already answered your question through references to apostle Paul’s epistle.
.

here it is again:

1 Corinthians 2:4-10 My conversation and my preaching were not with persuasive words of wisdom, but with a demonstration of the Spirit and of power, so that your faith would not be based on human wisdom but on the power of God. Now we do speak wisdom among the mature, but not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are perishing. Instead we speak the wisdom of God, hidden in a mystery, that God determined before the ages for our glory. None of the rulers of this age understood it. If they had known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. But just as it is written, “Things that no eye has seen, or ear heard, or mind imagined, are the things God has prepared for those who love him.” God has revealed these to us by the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.

It’s about the things God has prepared to those who wait and love Him : the salvation. Jesus as well said that people longed to see His day. It’s a promise fulfilled here on earth. It’s not about paradise.

 

[Chris_LaRock]

I’d like to know also. Muslims think that it’s wrong to portray prophets in pictures because it somehow dishonors them. Jews and Christians, as far as I know, honor the prophets by way of portraying them and making pictures.

I would think that Muslims would be ok with making pictures in honor of prophets, as long as it is done with respect and for the purpose of teaching about the prophets.

 

[meedo]

I’d like to know also. Muslims think that it’s wrong to portray prophets in pictures because it somehow dishonors them. Jews and Christians, as far as I know, honor the prophets by way of portraying them and making pictures.

I would think that Muslims would be ok with making pictures in honor of prophets, as long as it is done with respect and for the purpose of teaching about the prophets.

I dont think Jews do portray their prophets. I mean Orthodox ones. The reason of banning pictures of specially prophets is for fear of their worship. Thats the main reason at least .