Muhammad feared Infidel criticism of Quran

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Rodrigo_Bivar

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Apparently, it is not only modern Muslims who fear infidels scrutinizing and criticizing his piece of fiction, the Quran. If it were divinely inspired and the truth, then why would he fear criticism?

The evidence is from sahih Muslim - which Sunnis hold to be authentic.

Chapter 24: IT IS FORBIDDEN TO TAKE THE QUR’AN TO THE LAND OF THE INFIDELS WHEN IT IS FEARED THAT IT MIGHT FALL INTO THEIR HANDS
Book 020, Number 4607:

It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar who said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade that one should travel to the land of the enemy taking the Qur’an with him.
Book 020, Number 4608:

It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. Umar that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used to forbid that one should travel to the land of the enemy taking the Qur’an (with him) lest it should fall into the hands of the enemy.
Book 020, Number 4609:

It has been narrated on the authority of Ibn 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: Do not take the Qur’an on a journey with you, for I am afraid lost it should fall into the hands of the enemy. Ayyub (one of the narrators in the chain of transmitters) said: The enemy may seize it and may quarrel with you over it.
 
He had good reason to fear. He had anyone killed who criticized it. That is an effective way to convince people to avoid asking to many questions.
 
Ya…but thats true when you insult anyone’s religion.
Ever try telling a Christian his religion is BS? Man do they get mad…
 
Truth will always withstand scrutiny. If you fear scrutiny and criticism then you’re fearing the truth. This “siege” mentality is common to cults.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
Truth will always withstand scrutiny. If you fear scrutiny and criticism then you’re fearing the truth. This “siege” mentality is common to cults.
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Very true. Christianity and islam are so very similar eh?
Remember when the church tried to stop Galileo? Or got mad at Darwin? Or got mad at just about any scientist really. I mean cmon, just because it makes parts of the bible look silly?😛
 
Loginus said:
Very true. Christianity and islam are so very similar eh?

I doubt it but you are free to think so.

Remember when the church tried to stop Galileo?

More on this later.

Or got mad at Darwin?

That was never the case, despite some claims to the contrary. The Church issued no statement on the theory when it first came out, was neutral for a long a period, and today points out that there is no conflict between evolution and Christianity. Please read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_and_catholicism

Or got mad at just about any scientist really.

You’re being inaccurate on this subject.

I mean cmon, just because it makes parts of the bible look silly?😛

Depends on how you interpret the Bible. You sound like you’d make a good fundamentalist.
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Loginus,

do you read? I mean you know how to read right?

Rodrigo has already pointed out “Truth will always withstand scrutiny. If you fear scrutiny and criticism then you’re fearing the truth. This “siege” mentality is common to cults.”

If you think something is incorrect or that Galileo was stopped for making ‘certain parts of the bible’ look silly, then you should tell us WHERE these parts are and what did Galileo do. I would like you to do just what Rodrigo suggested. Scrutinize and show us the validity of your criticism.

If we scrutinize and are able to perform logical conclusions of something in our criticisms, while you are unable to, but merely telling us your displeasures, you will gain no support in this forum.
 
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ChristIsTheWay:
O cmon. Islam and Christianity are practically brothers!
As for you saying im taking th bible literally, well the bible used to be taken literally by the curch as well!.

Just after the church lots its ability to force ppl to comply, its had to take it on the chin. Anytime there is something that contradicts a teaching, the church merely says “Well, it wasnt meant to be taken literally!” then you get a bunch of books with the new meaning/interpretation.

In days of old, the church could happily burn what they referred to as herectics (sp?) which is why it could enjoy a literal understanding of its holy book.
 
Loginus said:
Very true. Christianity and islam are so very similar eh?
Remember when the church tried to stop Galileo? Or got mad at Darwin? Or got mad at just about any scientist really. I mean cmon, just because it makes parts of the bible look silly?😛
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There is no equivalence. The Christians have never to my knowledge have held their Bible to be secretive, and I’m sure they would be more than happy to share their knowledge of the Bible with you. If you are in need of a read, perhaps you can contact your local parish and obtain a copy of the Bible. Better yet, you can read the Bible from the internet for free.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
There is no equivalence. The Christians have never to my knowledge have held their Bible to be secretive, and I’m sure they would be more than happy to share their knowledge of the Bible with you. If you are in need of a read, perhaps you can contact your local parish and obtain a copy of the Bible. Better yet, you can read the Bible from the internet for free.
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Very true and thnx for the offer. But I already have several copies/versions (need to hehe Im studying this stuff ><). What I meant was that if days of old, questioning the teaching or authenticity of the church or bible could put u in a situation where you find yourself tied to a wooden pole and you’re knee deep in flames:(

You can still get a similar reaction from a Muslim or a Christian. Just set their Qur’an/Bible on fire in front of them and watch their face 😉
 
I don’t think there would be too many Christians who would kill you if you tear up the Bible, though. Not so sure about the Muslims.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
I don’t think there would be too many Christians who would kill you if you tear up the Bible, though. Not so sure about the Muslims.
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I guess it depends what part of the world I am. I know in good old S.A if I did that I’d probably get arrested for burning the Bible
At the very least, if I did either in the west, its safe to assume Id at the very least get a punch to the face;)
 
one has only to go to libraries in Arab countries. You’ll find all books against Christianity, but you won’t find a single book criticizing Muhammad/Islam.

Even the books we got regarding the heretical origin of Muhammad’s message are taken from “private” sources. Thank God these books are now on internet…but guess what? thousands sites are banned in Islamic countries 😉
 
Loginus said:
I guess it depends what part of the world I am. I know in good old S.A if I did that I’d probably get arrested for burning the Bible
At the very least, if I did either in the west, its safe to assume Id at the very least get a punch to the face;)
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Again you make the mistake of ‘making equivalence where none exists’. A punch in the nose is hardly on the same scale as a beheading.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
Again you make the mistake of ‘making equivalence where none exists’. A punch in the nose is hardly on the same scale as a beheading.
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Note how I said ‘in the west’. If I burnt a holy book of a christian or a muslim here in the west, the odds of me sustaining perminant injury is rather small unless I go to some backwater region and even then it would most likely be from Christian fundies.

If I were to go to the middle-east, yep you are right, but then every religious group there seems to be violent.😛
 
Why make a false equivalence by slanting? You might as well limit your argument thus:

In my neighborhood I can insult the Quran just as I do the Bible and no Muslim will assault me.

This is probably true, but not realistic of the general situation.

I sugges you might want to compare the behavior of Christians and Muslims in the East as well as the West (where Western secular laws constrain the Muslims) when it comes to ‘insulting’ their scriptures.
 
Rodrigo_Bivar said:
Why make a false equivalence by slanting? You might as well limit your argument thus:

In my neighborhood I can insult the Quran just as I do the Bible and no Muslim will assault me.

This is probably true, but not realistic of the general situation.

I sugges you might want to compare the behavior of Christians and Muslims in the East as well as the West (where Western secular laws constrain the Muslims) when it comes to ‘insulting’ their scriptures.
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It also constricts Christians;) As I said earlier, the church nowadays has been de-fanged. Its why we can say w/e we want in the west. Christians can only grumble in anger:D
 
As i said, Muhammad’s attitude to his critics is held by many Islamic countries where any non-Muslim sites are blocked…if you want to think, think “islamically”…other than that you are not allowed…if you get exposed to people criticizing Islam, you might become an apostate…this is shown in Father Zakaria’s site where hundreds of Muslims who heard the other side of Islam became apostates or converted to Christianity.
 
Rodrigo, maybe you can give us ahadith about Muhammad’s attitude to some of his critics…i only remember the Jewish poet whom he murdered.
 
Loginus, the core teaching of the bible is to love thy neighbor as thyself.

Certainly if a person professes to be a christian, you will NOT get any punches on your face.

On the contrary, the core teaching of the q’uran is to kill you, a non-muslim.

I have a problem with people who fault others because of their behavior and not because of their teachings. We ARE on a theological debate, not on the actions of your forefathers.

We are saying “Even if all muslims were good, Islam remains evil. Yet, even if all christians were bad, Christianity remains good.”.

If everyone were like you, there would be no justice in this world. Reason is simple, the convicted mastermind of a series of murders standing in a court could easily turn around and point at the judge for lusting after his neighbor’s wife.

Is this justice? No, it is a perversion of Justice. And the foremost of such acts is the Demon.

All of us have faults, but it doesn’t mean you can go around pointing fingers at their faults when they point out yours. Doing so amounts to denying the correction of your own faults and promoting the prevalence of sin. A wise man learns from his mistakes.

Proverbs 9:

8 Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;
rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

9 Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;
teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.

10 "The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

11 For through me your days will be many,
and years will be added to your life.

12 If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;
if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer."
 
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