Muhammad (pbuh), the Last Prophet

[Verisimilitude]

There is one basic reason we accept him as the last prophet. HE SAID HE IS THE LAST PROPHET. He preached the same message what Jesus (pbuh) and Moses (pbuh) brought.

He lied. Others too, said they were the last prophet. Muhammad did not teach the same as Christ. Muhammad has no legitimate authority.

Did Jesus (pbuh) ever say he is God? No. But you believe that from the words of others.

Will you acept the word of any murderer, or just one who says he kills for god?

You believe about Jesus (pbuh) what he never said. We believe about Mohamed (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) what they said.

The words of Jesus were recorded 600 years before Muhammad. How could an illiterate know what was written, and if it was wrong? If you say the spirit in the cave told him, what gives that spirit in the cave the authority to say such things? If you say that spirit declared who he was- that is not in the Qur’an. Muhammads 1st wifes uncle (wrongly- and who never converted to Islam) told him who spoke to him in the cave, the spirit never identifies itself.

Yes, Jesus not only said He was God, He proved it by His works. If you do not believe Him because He told you, believe in the works that He did.

 

[Onesimus]

You better read once, before you say that. Have ever read Bible at least? Read the Bible. You won’t find even a single quote of Jesus (pbuh) says he is God. But you assume it.

Sure He did. And if you don’t know that, you need to read the Bible again.

 

[QuietTimes]

39
You search the scriptures, because you think you have eternal life through them; even they testify on my behalf.
40
But you do not want to come to me to have life.
41
“I do not accept human praise;
42
moreover, I know that you do not have the love of God in you.
43
I came in the name of my Father, but you do not accept me; yet if another comes in his own name, you will accept him.
44
How can you believe, when you accept praise from one another and do not seek the praise that comes from the only God?
45
Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father: the one who will accuse you is Moses, in whom you have placed your hope.
46
For if you had believed Moses, you would have believed me, because he wrote about me.
47
But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?”

 

[Khalfan]

The hate and violence over shadow the good. All of the good in the Qur’an is already in the Bible (OT/NT). The Qur’an brings nothing new except a history of violence and commands to convert, subjugate or kill all non-Muslims.

Lev. 10:9; Prov. 20:1 is contradicting 31:6-7 which gives exceptions. Bible indicates that it is a gift from God (Psalm 104:14-15). The very first miracle of Jesus was turning water into wine. None of these events mentioned in Quran.

Genesis 9:17 where it says the rainbow, as a token of covenant? Today we know why there is rainbow. You won’t find such stupid statement in Quran.

Bible says, the uncleanness of the women is double the period (80 days) if she gives birth to a girl in compare to giving birth to a boy (40 days)? Check Levi 12:2-5. You won’t find such statement in Quran.

How far the bitter water test (Num 5:12-31) is practical? Is there any priest alive who can do this? Quran doesn’t guarantee such a test.

Bible says, the sun was created on the third day (Genesis 1:13-18), how possibly the first 2 days and nights came into existence without the sun? May be God was the source of the light for the first two days; but the earth doesn’t move/rotate (1 Chr 16:30, Psalms 93:1, 96:10), how the day and night, morning and evening happened?

Bible gives an impression of a flat earth. If earth is a globe, which mountain was that high, that Jesus could see all the kingdoms (Matthew 4:8)? How could it be possible to see all countries from one spot? Also check Daniel 4:11; in the dream of Daniel all the people of earth could see the tree. You won’t find such statements in Quran.

Bible says, a different God existed (Judges 11:24), who could defeat the people of God in war, in response to sacrifice. Check 2 Kings 3:27. You won’t find such statements in Quran.

… oh I forgot, it also introduced the command that a man should beat his wife to keep her in line.

If a beat can avoid a divorce, why not? Wife too have similar rights on husband.

 

[eleonardo]

… oh I forgot, it also introduced the command that a man should beat his wife to keep her in line.

If a beat can avoid a divorce, why not?

Sick way of thinking, IMO.

 

[Khalfan]

And that makes it official! He did not preach the same things that Jesus did! He taught nothing but hate and destruction to those who wisely did not accept his fraudulent claims!

It is your choice my dear, to know him and what he preached.

Destruction?!! why there are non muslims from centuries in many middle east and gulf contries? Why muslims didn’t kill them?

Yes, he did claim he was God! He did not say “I am God, worship me” as Muslims keep stating ad nauseam, but in so many other ways as have been posted here countless times.

Vickie

No. not even once my dear. Jesus (pbuh) didn’t say he is God in any way. That is just interpretation and assumption.

Instead he said,

“The Lord OUR God is one Lord” -Mark 12:29

“I ascend unto MY FATHER, and YOUR FATHER; and to MY GOD, and YOUR GOD” -John 20:17

“…He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation…”
–John 5:24

“For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak”. –John 12:49

“…that the world may believe that thou hast sent me”.
–John 17:21

“…My meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work”. –John 4:34

“…I seek not mine own glory: there is one that seeketh and judgeth”. –john 8:50

“He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me”. –Matthew 10:40

“He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me”. – Luke 10:16

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me”. –John 5:30

“…My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me”. –John 7:16

“…If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me”. -John 8:42

“… The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him”. –John 13:16

“…the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father’s which sent me”.
–John 14:24

 

[Khalfan]

Sick way of thinking, IMO.

Yaa. Sometimes sickness cures many other diseases.

 

[Khalfan]

I have read the whole Qur’an at least twice, and sections of it many more times. Most of it is threats and bad plagerism. Muhammads view of Jesus is not even a simple misunderstanding. It is a lie.

And where do you get real Jesus? Bible? Who wrote it? Mathew, mark, luke and John?

Someoe wrote the ideas of John. that is why it called gospels ACCORDING to John.

Someoe wrote the ideas of Matthew. that is why it called gospels ACCORDING to Matthew.

Someoe wrote the ideas of Mark. that is why it called gospels ACCORDING to Mark.

Someoe wrote the ideas of Luke. that is why it called gospels ACCORDING to Luke.

According to Christian apologetics, four gospels are different angles of the same events. There is no problem with it if you can combine these four gospels of the same events and make it into a scene as it happened in reality. Try the below gospels to combine.

Jesus going to the mountain…
• M’t:16:28: Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. M’t:17:1: And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
• Lu:9:27: But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. 28: And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

After 8 days or 6 days?

In the gospel of Mark (10:17-18. see Luke 18:18-19), a man is reported to have asked Jesus,
• "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life? "Jesus (P) simply replied, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’ "
• Look at the same event in Matthew. “Teacher, what good deed must I do to have eternal life?” “Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. …” (Matthew 19:16-17)

What was the actual question and answer?

Jesus first met Simon Peter and Andrew…
• By the sea of Galilee (Matthew 4:18-22)
• On the banks of river Jordan (John 1:42). After that, Jesus decided to go to Galilee (John 1:43)

The exact wording on the cross was…
• This is Jesus the King of the Jews (Matthew 27:37)
• The King of the Jews (Mark 15:26)
• This is the King of the Jews (Luke 23:38)
• Jesus of Nazareth, the King of the Jews (John 19:19)

One of it can be true and the other has to be wrong. You tell me which one is true and which one is wrong.

You can’t get the real Jesus (pbuh) from Bible.

 

[Nepenthe]

Seems to me, that if it comes to beating, of anyone, then most of the time, the divorce is already enacted if your god is a kindly one, and I say that to Christian and Moslem alike.

No matter who is beating whom, that is horrible. Though I do understand, now and then even the best of friends may come to blows mutually, and in that sense, a marriage can certainly survive, so long as all parties own up and say ‘I was a total jerk’ and no real harm was done. Living in close quarters can do that to people.

But that’s not the issue. We’re talking flat-out beating of the physically weaker by the stronger. No. Never.

 

[Khalfan]

Do you honestly believe that it’s impossible for the God who created the universe and everything in it to be a Trinity? That shows how awesome God really is, and not the one dimensional cardboard deity that Muslims believe in, who is so puny as to only be able to those things which his creations think he can do!

:yawn: Vickie

Why only trinity? Why don’t you think of Fivenity? May be more?

Father, Jesus, Holy Ghost, Tom, **** and Harry… I can give you many names. But you can’t think of Fivenity or Sixnity etc. You know why? because you are programmed to believe in something that Bible or Jesus never taught.

In the entire Bible there was only one verse that talkes about trinity. 1 John 5:7.

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one”
-1 John 5:7 KJV

According to many modern bibles like NIV, ASV, NASB and ESV, the concept of trinity is been thrown out as fabrication. The same verse in NIV (New International Version) is below,

‘For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement’. -1 John 5:7-8

Forget what we muslims believe, why don’t accept what Moses (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh) said.

Moses (pbuh) said ‘God is one and only’ (Not one in three or three in one). –Duet 6:4

Jesus (pbuh) said the same ‘God is one and only’ (Not one in three or three in one). –Mark 12:29

We believe Muhamed (pbuh) because he didn’t say it different but the same. He was been told to say the same in Quran, ‘God is one and only’ (Not one in three or three in one). –112:1

 

[Khalfan]

How can this be?

Jesus taught of a God who was please by turning the other cheek; while the Q’uran teaches slaughter is better than persecution

Why it was eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth during the period of Moses (pbuh)?

Time changed. Jesus (pbuh) emphasized forgivness.

Time changed. Mohamed (pbuh) emphasized both, punishment and forgivness.

 

[Khalfan]

Sure He did. And if you don’t know that, you need to read the Bible again.

Can you quote one?

 

[Khalfan]

He lied. Others too, said they were the last prophet. Muhammad did not teach the same as Christ. Muhammad has no legitimate authority.

No, they didn’t say they are the last.

The words of Jesus were recorded 600 years before Muhammad. How could an illiterate know what was written, and if it was wrong? If you say the spirit in the cave told him, what gives that spirit in the cave the authority to say such things? If you say that spirit declared who he was- that is not in the Qur’an. Muhammads 1st wifes uncle (wrongly- and who never converted to Islam) told him who spoke to him in the cave, the spirit never identifies itself.

Yes, Jesus not only said He was God, He proved it by His works. If you do not believe Him because He told you, believe in the works that He did.

You don’t believe Quran. No wonder.

But you don’t believe in Bible. That what I wonder why?!!

Jesus (pbuh) said about his God.

“The Lord OUR God is one Lord” -Mark 12:29

Jesus (pbuh) said about his works.

“…then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things” -John 8:28

“…My meat is to do the will of him that sent me and to finish his work”. –John 4:34

“I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me”. –John 5:30

Does that mean anything to you?

 

[BelFarfalla]

If a beat can avoid a divorce, why not? Wife too have similar rights on husband.

Beatings avoid a divorce? No they are a main reason for divorce. This comment of yours if disgustng.

 

[Khalfan]

Seems to me, that if it comes to beating, of anyone, then most of the time, the divorce is already enacted if your god is a kindly one, and I say that to Christian and Moslem alike.

I appreciate your view. A separation enacted but not divorce. It may be the same for you but we muslims seprate the meaning.

Divorce have lot deeper meaning than just a seperation. I am married. Me and my wife do argue every day on something. But it never leads to a separation. We enjoy it as just a spice of life. But in some relation, the situation may be different and the arguement leads to separation. Some of them may rethink after a while and join again. But some of the separation leads to divorce.

In all the arguement, separation and divorce, both male female have the same rights and values. Infact female gets more compensation in legal divorce.

“Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think.” (Quran 30:21)

No matter who is beating whom, that is horrible. Though I do understand, now and then even the best of friends may come to blows mutually, and in that sense, a marriage can certainly survive, so long as all parties own up and say ‘I was a total jerk’ and no real harm was done. Living in close quarters can do that to people.

But that’s not the issue. We’re talking flat-out beating of the physically weaker by the stronger. No. Never.

Such a beat is never said in Quran.

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following points should be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered “with a folded scarf” or “with a miswak or some such thing”. However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her.

 

[eleonardo]

I appreciate your view. A separation enacted but not divorce. It may be the same for you but we muslims seprate the meaning.

Divorce have lot deeper meaning than just a seperation. I am married. Me and my wife do argue every day on something. But it never leads to a separation. We enjoy it as just a spice of life. But in some relation, the situation may be different and the arguement leads to separation. Some of them may rethink after a while and join again. But some of the separation leads to divorce.

In all the arguement, separation and divorce, both male female have the same rights and values. Infact female gets more compensation in legal divorce.

“Among His signs is that He created for you spouses from among yourselves, in order to have tranquility and contentment with each other. He places in your heart love and care towards your spouses. In this, there are signs for people who think.” (Quran 30:21)

Such a beat is never said in Quran.

In regard to the suggestion about beating, the following points should be noted:

a) According to some traditions the Prophet said in his famous and well-attended speech on the occasion of his farewell pilgrimage that the beating done according to the present verse should be ghayr mubarrih, i.e. in such a way that it should not cause injury, bruise or serious hurt. On this basis some scholars like Tabari and Razi say even that it should be largely symbolic and should be administered “with a folded scarf” or “with a miswak or some such thing”. However, to be effective in its purpose of shaking the wife out of her nasty mood it is important that it should provide an energetic demonstration of the anger, frustration and love of the husband. In other words, it should neither seriously hurt the wife nor reduce it to a set of meaningless motions devoid of emotions.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her.

You can warp it with red ribbon and a cherry on top if you like, but a beating is a beating. Texts like “suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour” doesn’t make it one bit better, IMO.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi
Prophet Muhammad never beat any of his wives. He never mistreated them. He did not divorce any.
Please give evidence if any from Quran, the primary and foremost source of Islam/Quran/deeds of Muhammad.
Thanks

Muhammad had a marvelous record of a peace loving person for 40+13+2=55 years, he joined in welfare activities if there was any in Mecca, he helped the needy and in distress, he stood for the human cause, he never harmed any person. His record in these 55 years is clean by any standards.

 

[Onesimus]

Can you quote one?

John 8:58

 

[BelFarfalla]

Such a beat is never said in Quran. ….

A good number of us here have read the Qur’an at least once. Many like me have read it many times and have studied Islam in some depth. It’s really not wise to come here and assume that we are ignorant… it is not wise to deny what is really in the Qur’an because we know the book very well. Just admit it… the Qu’ran and Shri’ah not only allow for wife beating but give instructions of when to do it.

[4:34] The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD’s commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) *beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. *
**
Shari’ah law restates the above telling a man when he should beat his wife.

I have listened to many talks given by Imam stating that a man can and should beat his wife… the trick is that they do not call it a ‘beating’, the call it a ‘correction’.

The Qur’an does not give men and women equal rights in marriage. It gives men the rights of control and great power over all of his wives. As long as a man can have more then one wife and he can beat his wives by law, then he has superior power over all of his wives.

b) The wife has no religious obligation to take the beating. She can ask for and get divorce any time. The suggestion applies only in the case when the husband is seriously disturbed by a prolonged nasty behaviour on the part of the wife but neither he nor the wife is as yet seriously thinking of breaking up.

c) If the husband beats a wife without respecting the limits set down by the Quran and Hadith, then she can take him to court and if ruled in favor has the right to apply the law of retaliation and beat the husband as he beat her.

A man must never, ever under any circumstance hit is wife.

Why? Well for one thing is only shows that he is weak and a bad leader. But most of all because once a man finds an excuse for hitting a wife it becomes easier and easier. The truth is that in Islamic society most women are beat by their husbands fairly regularly. Why do they not leave? Where will they go? They have no way of supporting themselves. I’ll have to look it up tonight but as I recall Shari’ah severely limit’s a woman’s right to ask for a divorce and her rights during a divorce… For example she loses custody of her children… they automatically go the husband.

Islam gives all the power in a marriage to the husband.

 

[BelFarfalla]

Hi
Prophet Muhammad never beat any of his wives. He never mistreated them. He did not divorce any.
Please give evidence if any from Quran, the primary and foremost source of Islam/Quran/deeds of .

He once hit Aisha so hard in the chest that he hurt her. She recorded a hadith about it. OF course he never divorced any of them… he just kept marrying more and more… he had what 12 or 14 wives and slave girls. Some example of marital bliss.

The main point is that he told men that they can hit their wives.