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obadiah
Guest
It is a fact that rape victoms ARE executed under Islamic law. Happens all the time. Islam is Not the religion of peace.
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K
Khalfan
Guest
I agree with you completely. If anyone punish an innocent, a victim of rape, that is not what Islam teaches.
K
Khalfan
Guest
The rape execution itself is very rare that practiced few of Muslim countries. I am living in a gulf arab Islamic country called UAE. A rape execution never happened for last 8 years (I am here for last 8 years). There were some execution in Saudi Arabia, which was not for rape victims, but for murder and drug smuggling. Islam is the religion of peace, so that it gives strict rules and punishments for all anti-social activities. The punishment is a warning for all other wrong doers. Sympothy on criminals and symple punshment will help only to hike rate of crime in society.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
I believe I read that the other has been freed now too.
Both of these cases got a lot of internatinal attention. So these women have not been executed. There are other cases in which the women were not so lucky.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Then they got that one right.
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thistle
Guest
Islam is a false and violent religion. Most terrorists are Muslim and they clearly state they murder in the name of Islam which permits it.
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Khalfan
Guest
Yes, there are. Like the one happened in Pakistan.
Anyway, those unlucky victims will be rewarded in the afterlife. And those responsible for that unIslamic judgement will be punished accordingly.
K
Khalfan
Guest
Not most, all the terrorists.
Islam doesn’t allow to kill any innocent. Islam doesn’t allow suicide at all. In that case, almost all the terrorist attacks are unIslamic.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
While the Crusades were a justified war against those who had invaded Christian dome for hundreds of years killing and enslaving millions of Christians… the slaughter after the battle for Jerusalem was not justified. It was wrong. It was also how war was fought at the time by those on both sides.
What does this have to do with the beheading of Christian school girls by Muslim jihadists in Indonesia?
You, like most Muslims, seem to label all Europeans as Christians. Hitler was not a Christian. Yes he was born into a Catholic family but is had left the religion as an adult. He was an atheist and admired the occult and Islam. You will not find one, not one Christian teaching at advocates what Hitler did. Instead he was a prime example of the how to go straight to hell. Don’t forget that while the Muslim Arab countries allied themselves with Hitler, it was the other European countries and the USA who put an end to him and his holocaust. By the way, I thought that Muslims denied the Jews Holocaust.
What does this have to do with the beheading of Christian school girls by Muslim jihadists in Indonesia?
Neither of these are Christian wars but secular wars. However, of interest, they are justified if we look at Muhammad’s rules of war…… Muhammad fought back against those who were his declared enemies who had attacked the Muslims. Muhammad fought and killed those who broke treaties with the Muslims. Both of these countries broke those laws. Do you think that Muhammad was wrong when Muhammad attacked the Qurayza and had about 900 of their men beheaded and sold their women and children into slavery?
What does this have to do with the beheading of Christian school girls by Muslim jihadists in Indonesia?
The above wars have NOTHING to do with the Muslim jihadists beheading the children in Indonesia. They did it because they are terrorizing the Christians of Indonesia to create a Muslim state. They were going these things before 9/11.
How sad it is that you cannot even have sympathy for young school girls who were so brutally murdered just because they were Christian.
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strngrnrth
Guest
“Innocent until proven guilty” is an American principle, not a universally accepted one. America is a historically primarily Christian country. Our Constitution was written by men who mostly grew up in Christian communities and families. They used the principles they learned at home in their thinking.
When a nation is primarily Islamic, it tends to choose a Muslim theocratic form or government, in which any constitution is less important than the opinions of the leaders of the moment. Individual rights fade away.
We were attacked because we are a nation that proves by its existence that it is possible to live far better than anyone can live in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia. Especially women.
Thank God for the USA.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Islam doesn’t allow to kill any innocent. Islam doesn’t allow suicide at all. In that case, almost all the terrorist attacks are unIslamic.
You are absolutely correct that Islam does not allow for the killing of innocents. That is 100% correct.
But the problem comes in defining who is innocent. For example Bin Laden justified the attacks of 9/11 by saying that all of the people killed that day were not innocents… no one in America is innocent because we elect our government. I have asked many Muslims about this. Most if not all have agreed with Bin Laden. It’s all in how a person can justify their actions.
It can be said that anyone who is going into battle is committing suicide by proxy as they have a very good chance of dying but go in anyway.
It is wrong to call them suicide bombers, they are homicide bombers. Their intent is not to commit suicde but to kill as many of the ‘enemy’ as they can.
By the way, if you want to stand against the terrorists and suicide bombers I’m on your side. The above is discussion only and not meant to accuse you have holding beliefs you do not have. So if you do not believe as I’ve described above, more power to you.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
I agree with you that the intent of Islam is not to punish the victim. It is the religous who run the courts in those countires who are causing the problems. But this interpretation seems to be almost universal in the Muslim courts.
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dolphinlove
Guest
thanks for answering for me Lily…
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Onesimus
Guest
Nope, that’s not going to wash.
The number of Christian sects and teachings is irrelevant because Christians don’t claim the right to administer the civil government, Islam does and it does so claiming the authority of the Koran and/or Mohammed.
If you admit to misunderstandings and misinterpretations then you have to give up the claim you are rulings by God’s authority. As I said, you can’t have it both ways, and we learned that in the middle ages.
Now you’re arguing in bad faith.
Fatwahs are the scholars authorization to the faithful to take an action that is religiously justified. That is “speaking for Allah” by definition.
Whether it is accepted or rejected is irrelevant to what it is supposed to be.
You are just playing a verbal shell game like claiming you aren’t a perfectionist: you just want things doen “right.”
Even if that is true, which I’m not agreeing to, we believe it’s not up to one person to answer the “who to follow” question for another person, at least in the area of religion, because as you said “there are misunderstandings and misinterpretations.”
Sure. There was a good one in this morning’s mass reading.
Galatians 5:
5:1For freedom Christ set us free; so stand firm and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.*
2It is I, Paul, who am telling you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
3Once again I declare to every man who has himself circumcised that he is bound to observe the entire law.*
4You are separated from Christ, you who are trying to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
5For through the Spirit, by faith, we await the hope of righteousness.
6For in Christ Jesus, neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love.
7You were running well; who hindered you from following (the) truth?*
8That enticement does not come from the one who called you.
9A little yeast leavens the whole batch of dough.
10I am confident of you in the Lord that you will not take a different view, and that the one who is troubling you will bear the condemnation, whoever he may be.
11As for me, brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case, the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
12Would that those who are upsetting you might also castrate themselves!
13For you were called for freedom, brothers. But do not use this freedom as an opportunity for the flesh; rather, serve one another through love.*
14For the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”
15But if you go on biting and devouring one another, beware that you are not consumed by one another.
16I say, then: live by the Spirit and you will certainly not gratify the desire of the flesh.*
17For the flesh has desires against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you may not do what you want.
18But if you are guided by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19Now the works of the flesh are obvious: immorality, impurity, licentiousness,
20idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, rivalry, jealousy, outbursts of fury, acts of selfishness, dissensions, factions,
21occasions of envy, drinking bouts, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.*
22In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
23gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
25If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit.
26*Let us not be conceited, provoking one another, envious of one another.
Then as I said earlier, one can not claim Islam gives them the authority to rule.
O
obadiah
Guest
Hey, Thanks Onesimus for the Epistle reading. The Orthodox reading was from 1 Cor. 12:27-13:8.
The Gospel was Math. 8:28-9:1
And the Saints of the day were The Holy Martyrs Cosmos and Damian.
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BelFarfalla
Guest
Bin Laden does not agree with you. I have read some of his justifications based on the Qur’an, hadith, etc. It all reads a lot like the laws of the lesser Jihad I posted. A huge number of Muslims world wide agree with him and not what you have said above.
If Muslims cannot agree on things this important then Onesimus is right, Islam cannot make a claim to have the right to rule. No one seems to know or agree what Islam really is.**
**
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Eden
Guest
No one in the West is considered “innocent”. Islam breaks the world into two parts “the theater of peace” (the Islamic world) and “the theater of war” (the non-Islamic world). Don’t be confused by the use of the word “innocents”, as all non-Islamic nations are considered targets of war and so are their citizens. The Quran contains verses *compelling *believers to wage war in the name of religion against the disbelievers. These verses abrogated (or replaced) the peaceful verses that are frequently quoted to portray Islam as a religion of peace. Unbeliever = Not Innocent
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BelFarfalla
Guest
You are correct that this is the belief of mainstream Sunni and Shia.
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Sura10_Ayat94
Guest
Why is ISLAM so peaceful to non-Muslims.
The Qur’anic peace (“…be merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers” Sura 48:29) compared to in the beatitudes (Matthew 5:3), it is the Christian principle to “love your enemies” (whereby Christians are by mandated to love all Muslims). The Muslim concept can be viewed as the opposite extreme as is evident in the Hadith where they are required to persecute the Christians & Jews:
***“when judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim, a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire.” ***(Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no.5552)
Even the Qur’an alludes to the fact that Muslims are to not befriend Jews or Christians.
*“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them. Allah guideth not a people unjust.” *Sura 5:51
Sura 5:51, 9:5, 9:29 and many others verses have given rise to cultural divisions and this attitude is even applied today with the infamous and influential Muslim, **Ayatollah Khomeini’s **contempt for non-Muslims:
*There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.
Every part of the body of a non-Muslim individual is impure, even the hair on his hand and his body hair, his nails, and all the secretions of the body.
Any man or woman who denies the existence of Allah, or believes in His partners [the Christian Trinity], or else does not believe in His Prophet Muhammad, is impure (in the same way as are excrement, urine, dog, and wine). He is so even if he doubts any one of these principles.
It is forbidden to touch a page of the Qur’an with anything impure; if such a thing should happen, the page must immediately be washed.
One must avoid giving the Qur’an to an infidel; it is even recommended that it be **forcibly taken away *from him if he already has it in his hands”
In Conclusion:
What the West doesn’t understand is that according to Islam, Sura 2:256, which teaches freedom of religion, **IS NO LONGER VALID AS IT HAS BEEN ABROGATED ‘Naskh’ BY LATER REVELATIONS **which were given to Mohammed.
In his book, How to Perfect the Science of the Qur’an (Al-Itqan), writes Mr. Al-Syoti, in volume 2 page 37; **“THE VERSE OF THE SWORD 9:5 HAS ABROGATED (annulled, cancelled) one hundred and twenty four Qur’anic verses and all what came in the Qur’an on matters of forgiving and ignoring, unbelievers have been replaced (Mansookha), BY THE VERSE OF THE SWORD.” **
This is also conferred by the highest of the interpreters of the Qur’an. For further evidence refer to the following; Kitab Al-Nasekh Wal-mansookh, by Al-Neesaburi. Al-Hafeth Ibnu Katheer Ibin Abas. Al-Tasheel Lulum Al-Tanzeel. Al-Husain Ibn Fadl. Abu Abdullah Muhammad Ibn Hazm. Al-Muhaqiq Abu Al-Qasim Hibatullah Ibn Salameh. Al-Sudy Wa-AlDahak. Muhammad Abdulsalam Faraj.
The evidence on the abrogation of verses which calls for tolerance and patience CANNOT BE REFUTED. PEOPLE IN THE WEST NEED TO BE AWAKENED, they cannot ignore what is really taught in the East, that is; to Islamize the West. Again, the banners one sees in all Islamic rallies and demonstrations proves the point - “Islam to the World.” (Walid, Crash Course in Jihad, pg 4)
VERY PEACEFUL…
The Qur’anic peace (“…be merciful to one another, but ruthless to unbelievers” Sura 48:29) compared to in the beatitudes (Matthew 5:3), it is the Christian principle to “love your enemies” (whereby Christians are by mandated to love all Muslims). The Muslim concept can be viewed as the opposite extreme as is evident in the Hadith where they are required to persecute the Christians & Jews:
***“when judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim, a Jew or Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire.” ***(Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol. 2, no.5552)
Even the Qur’an alludes to the fact that Muslims are to not befriend Jews or Christians.
*“O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them. Allah guideth not a people unjust.” *Sura 5:51
Sura 5:51, 9:5, 9:29 and many others verses have given rise to cultural divisions and this attitude is even applied today with the infamous and influential Muslim, **Ayatollah Khomeini’s **contempt for non-Muslims:
*There are eleven things which are impure: urine, excrement, sperm, bones, blood, dogs, pigs, non-Muslim men and women, wine, beer, and the sweat of the excrement-eating camel.
Every part of the body of a non-Muslim individual is impure, even the hair on his hand and his body hair, his nails, and all the secretions of the body.
Any man or woman who denies the existence of Allah, or believes in His partners [the Christian Trinity], or else does not believe in His Prophet Muhammad, is impure (in the same way as are excrement, urine, dog, and wine). He is so even if he doubts any one of these principles.
It is forbidden to touch a page of the Qur’an with anything impure; if such a thing should happen, the page must immediately be washed.
One must avoid giving the Qur’an to an infidel; it is even recommended that it be **forcibly taken away *from him if he already has it in his hands”
In Conclusion:
What the West doesn’t understand is that according to Islam, Sura 2:256, which teaches freedom of religion, **IS NO LONGER VALID AS IT HAS BEEN ABROGATED ‘Naskh’ BY LATER REVELATIONS **which were given to Mohammed.
In his book, How to Perfect the Science of the Qur’an (Al-Itqan), writes Mr. Al-Syoti, in volume 2 page 37; **“THE VERSE OF THE SWORD 9:5 HAS ABROGATED (annulled, cancelled) one hundred and twenty four Qur’anic verses and all what came in the Qur’an on matters of forgiving and ignoring, unbelievers have been replaced (Mansookha), BY THE VERSE OF THE SWORD.” **
This is also conferred by the highest of the interpreters of the Qur’an. For further evidence refer to the following; Kitab Al-Nasekh Wal-mansookh, by Al-Neesaburi. Al-Hafeth Ibnu Katheer Ibin Abas. Al-Tasheel Lulum Al-Tanzeel. Al-Husain Ibn Fadl. Abu Abdullah Muhammad Ibn Hazm. Al-Muhaqiq Abu Al-Qasim Hibatullah Ibn Salameh. Al-Sudy Wa-AlDahak. Muhammad Abdulsalam Faraj.
The evidence on the abrogation of verses which calls for tolerance and patience CANNOT BE REFUTED. PEOPLE IN THE WEST NEED TO BE AWAKENED, they cannot ignore what is really taught in the East, that is; to Islamize the West. Again, the banners one sees in all Islamic rallies and demonstrations proves the point - “Islam to the World.” (Walid, Crash Course in Jihad, pg 4)
VERY PEACEFUL…
K
Khalfan
Guest
Justified by whom? I will come back to crusade.
What does this have to do with the beheading of Christian school girls by Muslim jihadists in Indonesia?
Islam has nothing to do with those jihadists.
This may have something to do with. Because no one becomes a terrorist without a reason.
newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/79987.stm
He was a Christian until he die. You can throw him out of Christianity since we don’t agree any Islamic terrorism.
When did Iraq and Afghan fight U.S.?
Prophet (pbuh) as you said, were fighting back. Not all of them but warriors were beheaded. The women and children were taken into custody and then freed.
How did the God of Bible, dealt with the children and woman captured in the battle during Moses (pbuh) (as it said in bible. Muslims don’t believe that)? Check Numbers 31:1-47.
My sympothy is not the point. Who did that will be responsible for it (if anything is happened as you claim).
There were many millions killed just because they were not Christians. I have my sympothy on them too. But in your eyes, it is JUSTIFIED killings as you said.
Check exchristian.net/exchristian/2002/10/how-many-people-have-been-killed-by.php
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