Muhammad (pbuh), the Last Prophet

[chet]

Khalfan, Like it or not;Believe it or not; God became man both to teach us how we should live, and to die, to purchase us back from the penalties of our sins,[For the wages of sin is death] if we accept his free Gift!------- Khalfan, Jesus died for you!------- Khalfan,you don’t need Mohammad; But you can’t live eternally without Jesus!-------- John 5:22-24

"For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son, so that all will honor the Son even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him. "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

 

[chet]

Khalfan,This is Jesus prayer! John 17:21

that they may all be one;

Thats us!

even as You, Father, are in Me and I in You,

That is the intimate way that God the Father and God the Son are united! They are each in each other! Totally interconnected One!

that they also may be in Us

,Jesus wants us to be a part of this eternal union! Isn’t that the best news youv’e ever heard!

so that the world may believe that You sent Me.

Has any of this gotten through to you or is your heart just that hardened against the truth? God loves you! And so do I !

 

[Khalfan]

Yes rape is restricted in Islam… a Muslim cannot rape a Muslim woman… but female war captives are fair game for rape. Here are hadiths in which Muhammad allowed his men to rape female war captives immediately after they watched the Muslims behead all of the adult males of the tribe.

Sales and Trade

Sahih Bukhari, Book 34:

Volume 3, Number 432: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: that while he was sitting with Allah’s Apostle he said, “O Allah’s Apostle! We get female captives as our share of booty, and we are interested in their prices, what is your opinion about coitus interrupt us?” The Prophet said, "Do you really do that? It is better for you not to do it. No soul that which Allah has destined to exist, but will surely come into existence.

Manumission of Slaves

Sahih Bukhari, Book 46:

Volume 3, Book 46, Number 718:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I saw Abu Said and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said said, "We went with Allah’s Apostle, in the Ghazwa of Barli Al-Mustaliq and we captured some of the 'Arabs as captives, and the long separation from our wives was pressing us hard and we wanted to practice coitus interruptus. We asked Allah’s Apostle (whether it was permissible). He said, “It is better for you not to do so. No soul, (that which Allah has) destined to exist, up to the Day of Resurrection, but will definitely come, into existence.”

Military Expeditoins led by Prophet (pbuh) (Al-Maghaazi)

*Sahih Bukhari, Book 59: *

volume 5, Number 459:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, “We went out with Allah’s Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Oneness, Uniqueness of Allah (TAWHEED)

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 93: *

Volume 9, Book 93, Number 506: Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That during the battle with Bani Al-Mustaliq they (Muslims) captured some females and intended to have sexual relation with them without impregnating them. So they asked the Prophet about coitus interrupt us. The Prophet said, “It is better that you should not do it, for Allah has written whom He is going to create till the Day of Resurrection.” Qaza’a said, “I heard Abu Sa’id saying that the Prophet said, 'No soul is ordained to be created but Allah will create it.”

And what the Prophet (pbuh) replied BelFarfalla? Did he say, ‘Oh… do it with pleasure’?

War, captives, slavery, rapes and killing were not something new to those people, because of the tribal wars happening all over Arabia. But there was something new that only prophet (pbuh) could give; A reason to rethink before doing something. Those people were afraid if they can continue the habits they had before they join Islam. So they said “How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle who is present among us?”

Prophet (pbuh) wondered, “Do you really do that?..”

And continued, “…It is better for you not to do it…”

Salvery existed from centuries. But the rules and rights of slaves changed by Islam. Children in slaves got legal part in properties of father. Freeing slaves announced as rightoues deed which then made every Muslims to free their slaves. It was the end of slavery system in Islam. Christainity could understand it only after Abraham Lincon. Only the warriors got beheaded. The women and children captives of war were freed after war.

 

[Khalfan]

LOL, this is really funny. A man who is living in a country that blocks censors what he can read on the internet is saying that Christians are not ALLOWED to read non-Christian material. That’s very funny. We can and do read anything we want. A godo percentage of us have already read the material you post and much more by Muslims,. We reject it.

You can read anything, except Bible!!!

 

[Khalfan]

Why should he? Wouldn’t that increase the site traffic, or whatever that excuse was you used to avoid anti-muslim sites.

This forum itself is anti-Islamic. Did I avoid it? I likie when someone criticize Islam. Because none of them could ever come up with genuine problem. And I am still waiting for one.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I’m sorry but I have rather higher moral standards than your prophet. I believe that a true prophet of a true almighty god would not condone rape in any shape or form. Think of the millions of women who were raped by Muslims through the centuries because Muhammad condoned it.

The fact that the 7th century Arabs were savages does not mean that what they did should be condoned. In fact, a true prophet should tell them that what they were doing was immoral and wrong.

Also general emancipation of slaves pre-existed Islam. Don’t tell us that Muhammad initiated anything new here. He did not institute general emancipation. He made specific emancipation okay but there are sahih hadiths that also say that a slave-owner can renege on his emancipation of his slave.

The Persian Cyrus the Great instituted general emancipation more than 1,000 years before Muhammad.

The Romans had a system of specific manumission. pbs.org/empires/romans/empire/slaves_freemen.html

The Greek stoics were philosophically against slavery in any form about 900 years before Muhammad.

 

[Khalfan]

You think to embarrass us over mysteries when you’re commending a guy who had sex with children for his righteousness?

What do they put in the water over there?

Same old allegation!! Its been answered many times. The moral values and marital ages weren’t the same today and 1500 years ago. Come up with something new.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Khalfan,
Moral values may have changed but we do look for prophets to transcend time and culture. Otherwise, why bother? Your prophet seems rather limited in “usefulness” to the 7th century Arabian desert. Not at all useful today.

Is Muhammad a moral guide or not? If so then his moral standards must be superior to ours even today and into the future. If his moral standards are below ours then why not toss his ‘model’ into the garbage can of history?

You can’t have it both ways - either Muhammad was a prophet for all time and all places or he was a prophet for the 7th century Arabian desert only.

Which is it?

 

[Khalfan]

The fatwa’s breastfeeding solution was based on a real incident and real advice given by Muhammed to a woman in the Quran.

Yes. And this guy tried to generelise that one particular situational conditional act by a fatwa which rejected by all other scholars, and he himself confessed for that.

 

[Khalfan]

The more we Christians read about Islam, the more we recoil from it. Education is not the solution. The suggestion by Muslims to research the real Islam has actually created a large mass of non-Muslims who have read about the real Islam and become shocked and horrified.

The only problem is, you only read anti-Islamic sites.

 

[Khalfan]

I realize that this is a common answer. So, I’ll just point it out. Jesus came to fulfill the Old Testament. If you would like to point out something in the New Testament, the fulfillment of the Word, please do. That be more likely to resonate with Christians.

Yaa… same old tactic of ignoring OT completely. I think your concern is only the prophecies in OT. Why don’t you just quote that and remove all other things from Bible?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

I don’t believe rape, murder, torture, genocide, ethnic-cleansing, enslavement of innocent women and children, and pedophilia to be relative morals. I think these are absolute morals. They were wrong in year 0. They were wrong in the first century AD. They were wrong in the 7th century. They are wrong today. And they will be wrong tomorrow.

The problem of a purported prophet of God showing ‘relative morality’ is that his morality becomes absolute.

Even today, there are many if not most Muslim (if not all Muslims) believe pedophilia is okay because Muhammad did it.

Because such purported prophets are used to moral guides - they can never ever claim the ‘relative moral’ excuse.

There is a logical problem with the relative morality argument if one thinks carefully. It says that God condones certain acts that he subsequently makes heinous. He makes certain acts moral in the 7th century but heinous acts today. Thus, God is not consistent in his morality. This is a problem because God has not ‘spoken’ to us since ancient times - so how are we to know of his change of heart regarding moral matters?

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

The only problem is, you only read anti-Islamic sites.

So what’s wrong with that? You only expect people to read pro-Islam sites, do you? That would be so one-sided, isn’t it?

You should really be looking at the veracity of the evidence, not the source - because that would be the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

In my experience, Muslims only want their ‘critics’ to read pro-Islam sites? How is that fair and reasonable?

 

[Eden]

This forum itself is anti-Islamic. Did I avoid it? I likie when someone criticize Islam. Because none of them could ever come up with genuine problem. And I am still waiting for one.

The fact that Muhammed never directly heard the voice of God, that he killed people and violently stole from them, that he had slaves and condoned all kinds of physical abuse and punishment are just the tip of the iceberg. I realize you don’t see these as problems, but to a Christian mind, these are huge character issues.

 

[Eden]

Yes. And this guy tried to generelise that one particular situational conditional act by a fatwa which rejected by all other scholars, and he himself confessed for that.

The recommendation that Muhammed gave to the woman who was concerned about an older man’s attention, let him suck your breasts so that your relationship becomes maternal, is perverse.

 

[Eden]

The only problem is, you only read anti-Islamic sites.

The English translation of the Quran on the Saudi Arabian government’s website speaks for itself.

 

[Eden]

Yaa… same old tactic of ignoring OT completely. I think your concern is only the prophecies in OT. Why don’t you just quote that and remove all other things from Bible?

So, you have nothing to offer from the New Testament? From what I have seen of the websites answering-christianity, etc., neither do they.

 

[Khalfan]

The English translation of the Quran on the Saudi Arabian government’s website speaks for itself.

What does it say?

 

[Khalfan]

The recommendation that Muhammed gave to the woman who was concerned about an older man’s attention, let him suck your breasts so that your relationship becomes maternal, is perverse.

Quote the hadees completely. So I will answer.

 

[Khalfan]

So, you have nothing to offer from the New Testament? From what I have seen of the websites answering-christianity, etc., neither do they.

Tell me where I can find the complete NT, including Barnabas Bible, those burned manuscripts by first church becasue it didn’t contained Jesus (pbuh) as God.