Muhammad (pbuh), the Last Prophet

[Khalfan]

Khalfan,

Nice cut-and-paste job there. May people put as much effort into reading it as you did in posting it.

If there is even a single Christian who will read, my job is done.

 

[Khalfan]

Khalfan,Sadly you are very mistaken for you do not have the Holy Spirit but we do.

Isn’t it the same Spirit that couldn’t help you to recognise a correct version of Bible translation?

Did you know that in Jesus’ time among the Jews that a person was said to be the son of a particular fisherman; then that person would be esteemed as an equal to their father the fisherman.So if someone said, "this man is the Son of God."it would mean they esteemed as an equal to God the Father.

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he (God himself) called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” –John 10:34-36

I am sorry, there ae only three Gods in try-unity, right? Read OT, you may get more to add, if Jesus (pbuh) was correct.

You see Jesus knew Peters understanding of his testimony about who he believed Jesus to be. But instead of saying no I am not God, Jesus validates it by telling him he is blessed of His Father!---- Khalfan,do you know how Satan likes to operate? He likes to take something that is good and pervert it; That is exactly what Mohamed did.

That is a clear lie. What Jesus (pbuh) agreed in Mt 16:16 is, ‘the Son of the living God’. And you interpreted it as ‘GOD’ by saying ‘instead of saying no I am not God, Jesus validates it’. You are truly a Christian.

 

[Khalfan]

YOU don’t know the mystery. You don’t even know what a “mystery”*** is***, in this context. That’s apparent to everyone by now… However, you shouldn’t project your own ignorance onto others. I know what the Trinity is already. Bottom line is, the Trinity does not, and has never meant “three gods” and your repeating that it is will not make this lie any more true.

This is for you, that you may understand what ‘mystery’ is.

234 The mystery of the Most Holy Trinity is the central mystery of Christian faith and life. It is the mystery of God in himself. It is therefore the source of all the other mysteries of faith, the light that enlightens them. It is the most fundamental and essential teaching in the "hierarchy of the truths of faith".56 The whole history of salvation is identical with the history of the way and the means by which the one true God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, reveals himself to men “and reconciles and unites with himself those who turn away from sin”.57

237 The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the "mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God".58 To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his Revelation throughout the Old Testament. But his inmost Being as Holy Trinity is a mystery that is inaccessible to reason alone or even to Israel’s faith before the Incarnation of God’s Son and the sending of the Holy Spirit.

vatican.va/archive/catechism/p1s2c1p2.htm#III

 

[Angelos]

“It is He Who sent down to thee (step by step), in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment be tween right and wrong). (The Noble Quran, 3:3)”

“To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (The Noble Quran, 5:48)”

“That which We have revealed to thee of the Book is the Truth,- confirming what was (revealed) before it: for God is assuredly- with respect to His Servants - well acquainted and Fully Observant. (The Noble Quran, 35:31)”

That is why we Muslims believe in only the parts of the Bible that agree with the Noble Quran. The parts that contradict the Noble Quran are not the Truth. Becasue,

“That they rejected Faith; That they uttered against Mary A grave false charge; That they said (in boast): ‘We killed Christ Jesus The son of Mary, The Messenger of Allah.’ But they killed him not, Nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up Unto Himself; and Allah Is Exalted in Power, Wise. And there is none of the people of the book (Jews and Christians) But must believe in him (Jesus) Before his death; And on the Day of Judgment He (Jesus) will be a witness Against them. (The Noble Quran, 4:156-159)”

“Know they not Allah Knoweth what they conceal and what they reveal? And there are among them illiterates, who know not the Book, but (see therein their own) desires, and they do nothing but conjecture. Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands, and then say: ‘This is from Allah,’ To traffic with it for a miserable price! Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby. (The Noble Quran, 2:77-79)”

“O Apostle! let not those grieve thee, who race each other into unbelief: (whether it be) among those who say “We believe” with their lips but whose hearts have no faith; or it be among the Jews,- men who will listen to any lie,- will listen even to others who have never so much as come to thee. They change the words from their (right) times and places: they say, ‘If ye are given this, take it, but if not, beware!’ If any one’s trial is intended by God, thou hast no authority in the least for him against God. For such - it is not God’s will to purify their hearts. For them there is disgrace in this world, and in the Hereafter a heavy punishment. (The Noble Quran, 5:41)”

Dear Khalfan,

It is saddening to see that you are still unable to comprehend the very scripture you rely on and consider holy

It has been almost half a year since I quit writing for this forum due to my military service - I am still in the army and cannot find time to help people understand the truth about Islam and the Koran concealed by you Muslims

Your personal interpretation about the authenticity of our Holy Bible is against not only historical evidence, but also Mohammed’s Bible (I regard the Koran as the falsified and distorted version of the Judeo-Christian Scripture).

Your claim that the Koran confirms the Bible only partly is clearly rebutted by the verse below:

Hicr 90- 93 (Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (scripture into arbitrary parts), (So also on such) as have made Qur-an into shreds (as they please). Therefore, by thy Lord, We will, of a surety, call them to account, For all their deeds.

It is your very book that calls you a “hypocrite” for dividing scriptures into parts. Next time read your Koran before making contradictory assertions

God bless,

Angelos (ex-Muslim)

 

[chet]

1 John 5:7 And there are three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one. (Douay-Rheims)

1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (New American Standard Bible)

Trinity is there in Douay-Rheims version but it is not there in NASB version. Why? Which version you gonna reject now?

First I don’t believe I ever quoted this verse myself.I like to use the NASB because it is easier to read.But it is not in fact a Catholic Bible, but the Douay-Rheims is.Here is my question for you and you can decide which makes sense:Can blood testify? What about water? You figure it out.------While Our Bible is a major part of the deposit of our faith,we also have the Magisterium established by Jesus,as well as Apostolic tradition which the Church has faithfully protected, and preserved.

 

[chet]

Isn’t it the same Spirit that couldn’t help you to recognise a correct version of Bible translation?

Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he (God himself) called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?” –John 10:34-36

I am sorry, there ae only three Gods in try-unity, right? Read OT, you may get more to add, if Jesus (pbuh) was correct.

That is a clear lie. What Jesus (pbuh) agreed in Mt 16:16 is, ‘the Son of the living God’. And you interpreted it as ‘GOD’ by saying ‘instead of saying no I am not God, Jesus validates it’. You are truly a Christian.

The Sacred Bible: The Gospel of John{5:18}

but he even said that God was his Father, making himself equal to God.

The Sacred Bible: The Gospel of John
{1:1} In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and God was the Word.
{1:2} He was with God in the beginning.
{1:3} All things were made through Him, and nothing that was made was made without Him.{5:17} But Jesus answered them, “Even now, my Father is working, and I am working.”
{5:18} And so, because of this, the Jews were seeking to kill him even more so. For not only did he break the Sabbath, but he even said that God was his Father, making himself equal to God.
{14:6} Jesus said to him: “I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father, except through me.
{14:7} If you had known me, certainly you would also have known my Father. And from now on, you shall know him, and you have seen him.”
{14:8} Philip said to him, “Lord, reveal the Father to us, and it is enough for us.”
{14:9} Jesus said to him: “Have I been with you for so long, and you have not known me? Philip, whoever sees me, also sees the Father. How can you say, ‘Reveal the Father to us?’
{14:10} Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I am speaking to you, I do not speak from myself. But the Father abiding in me, he does these works.
{14:11} Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me?
{14:12} Or else, believe because of these same works. Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me shall also do the works that I do. And greater things than these shall he do, for I go to the Father.
{14:13} And whatever you shall ask the Father in my name, that I will do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
{14:14} If you shall ask anything of me in my name, that I will do.
{14:15} If you love me, keep my commandments.
{14:16} And I will ask the Father, and he will give another Advocate to you, so that he may abide with you for eternity:
{14:17} the Spirit of Truth, whom the world is not able to accept, because it neither perceives him nor knows him. But you shall know him. For he will remain with you, and he will be in you.

Mohammad is not in me but the Spirit of Truth is! Khalfan is Mohammad in you? {14:17}"and he will be in you.Heres another big problem with your theory that Mohammad is the Advocate and it is so simple I don’t know how you couldn’t have seen it! Jesus was speaking with his Apostles 600 plus years before Mohammad! They did not know him; nor did he will remain with them,

"But you shall know him. For he will remain with you,

 

[Khalfan]

Dear Khalfan,

It is saddening to see that you are still unable to comprehend the very scripture you rely on and consider holy

It has been almost half a year since I quit writing for this forum due to my military service - I am still in the army and cannot find time to help people understand the truth about Islam and the Koran concealed by you Muslims

Your personal interpretation about the authenticity of our Holy Bible is against not only historical evidence, but also Mohammed’s Bible (I regard the Koran as the falsified and distorted version of the Judeo-Christian Scripture).

Your claim that the Koran confirms the Bible only partly is clearly rebutted by the verse below:

Hicr 90- 93 (Of just such wrath) as We sent down on those who divided (scripture into arbitrary parts), (So also on such) as have made Qur-an into shreds (as they please). Therefore, by thy Lord, We will, of a surety, call them to account, For all their deeds.

It is your very book that calls you a “hypocrite” for dividing scriptures into parts. Next time read your Koran before making contradictory assertions

God bless,

Angelos (ex-Muslim)

And what is that historical evidence, that can prove the authenticity of your Holy Bible?

 

[obadiah]

Khalfan,

Nice cut-and-paste job there. May people put as much effort into reading it as you did in posting it.

I am really getting tired of Khalfan’s cut and paste routine. I stopped reading his posts a long time ago because of it, he can’t write his own words.

 

[Khalfan]

The Sacred Bible: The Gospel of John{5:18}

I can see the effort you do to promote Jesus (pbuh) as GOD. Even GOD himself can see that. Oooops… Am I equlling my eyesight to the eyesight of GOD?!! Blashphemy!!! I may get killed now by any Jew.

Mohammad is not in me but the Spirit of Truth is! Khalfan is Mohammad in you? {14:17}"and he will be in you. Heres another big problem with your theory that Mohammad is the Advocate and it is so simple I don’t know how you couldn’t have seen it! Jesus was speaking with his Apostles 600 plus years before Mohammad! They did not know him; nor did he will remain with them,

People wrote whole book of lies and included in the Bible. You still debating on the inspiration of ‘apocrepha’. You think writing something to support promise of Holy Spirit is impossible? I don’t think so.

By the way, ‘Holy Spirit’ was not new to disciples or even to Jews. Spirit was here long before that.

Was it the Holy Spirit who was to come according to John 16:7-14?

7: But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8: When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness… 12: "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13: But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14: He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. –John 16:7-14. (Check John 7:39, Acts 1:3-5 also which says, the Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.)

Jesus made promise of the coming of someone after he goes from the earth. Jesus said, the spirit will not come until he goes away. If it was the Holy Spirit, Spirit was here on earth many times even before Jesus was born.

Luke 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
Luke 1:67 So did Zechariah.

Check Gen 1:2, Ex 31:3, Num 11:16-26, 24:1-6, 27:18, Judges 3:9-10, 6:34, 11:29, 13:25, 14:6, 14:19, 15:14, 1 Sam 10:6-10, 16:13-14, 19:20-23, 23:1, Isai 59:21, Eze 2:2, 3:24, Dani 5:11, 1 Chr 12:18 and 2 Chr 20:14 etc…

Isn’t the promise contradicting with all the above verses? Even during the life time of Jesus, the Spirit was here on earth. Check below.

Luke 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
Luke 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

Jesus also had the Spirit in him. Check Mathew 12:31. The Jews had claimed that the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit through Jesus were the works of Satan. That was blasphemy. Jesus quickly warned them and in the warning tells that the Holy Spirit is God.

It was not the Holy Spirit, who was to come as per the promise; since the Spirit was here already according to the Bible.

 

[Khalfan]

I am really getting tired of Khalfan’s cut and paste routine. I stopped reading his posts a long time ago because of it, he can’t write his own words.

Since it answeres your questions, I don’t mind copy pasting.

 

[Khalfan]

First I don’t believe I ever quoted this verse myself.I like to use the NASB because it is easier to read.But it is not in fact a Catholic Bible, but the Douay-Rheims is.Here is my question for you and you can decide which makes sense:Can blood testify? What about water? You figure it out.------While Our Bible is a major part of the deposit of our faith,we also have the Magisterium established by Jesus,as well as Apostolic tradition which the Church has faithfully protected, and preserved.

But you are supposed to believe in all the verses in Bible, right? You are not supposed to ignore it, just becasue you never quoted it.

Can you give me another version of Catholic Bible than Douay-Rheims? I don’t think you have only that version. Do you mind researching, why the idea of trinity is throwne out of NASB?

 

[Montalban]

The reason we use Bible is because,

“Say: ‘O People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians)! Come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah.’ If then they turn back, say ye: ‘Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah’s Will).’ (The Noble Quran, 3:64)”

That’s not always the case. I’ve seen Moslems argue that the Bible points to Muhammed… through Jesus mentioning the coming of ‘the helper’.

Moslems can’t make up their minds if the Bible contains any part of the word of God, or not.

 

[Montalban]

But you are supposed to believe in all the verses in Bible, right? You are not supposed to ignore it, just becasue you never quoted it.

It’s not a question of ignoring, but of interpreting. Moslems love to offer up the Bible and to tell Christians how we should believe it.

 

[obadiah]

Since it answeres your questions, I don’t mind copy pasting.

you haven’t REALLY answered anything at all, I’m really tired of your blaspheming the LORD JESUS CHRIST TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN ONE IN ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

 

[Khalfan]

you haven’t REALLY answered anything at all, I’m really tired of your blaspheming the LORD JESUS CHRIST TRUE GOD AND TRUE MAN ONE IN ESSENCE WITH THE FATHER AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

There was a man lived 2000 years ago, who never said ‘I AM GOD’ for even once in his entire life. Instead he said, he is sent by his GOD, with what he taught to speak by his GOD, did many miracles by the help of his GOD, prayed to be saved from getting killed by jews and ascented to heaven by the will of his GOD, called Esua (pbuh).

But you Christians changed his name, mission, works and authority.

 

[Khalfan]

It’s not a question of ignoring, but of interpreting. Moslems love to offer up the Bible and to tell Christians how we should believe it.

OK. now you tell me, how do you interpret 1 John 5:7?

Father, Son and Holy Spirit

or

Spirit, water and blood?

 

[Khalfan]

That’s not always the case. I’ve seen Moslems argue that the Bible points to Muhammed… through Jesus mentioning the coming of ‘the helper’.

Moslems can’t make up their minds if the Bible contains any part of the word of God, or not.

We invalidated Bible, not because it doesn’t contain any word of God, but it contains human words that fabricated as words of God and words of Jesus (pbuh) as impossible to recognise true and false.

 

[Dulcimer]

There was a man lived 2000 years ago, who never said ‘I AM GOD’ for even once in his entire life. Instead he said, he is sent by his GOD, with what he taught to speak by his GOD, did many miracles by the help of his GOD, prayed to be saved from getting killed by jews and ascented to heaven by the will of his GOD, called Esua (pbuh).

But you Christians changed his name, mission, works and authority.

Isa said “I and the father are one” and the jews picked up stones to stone him. “For which of my good works do you stone me?” he asked. “For good works we do not stone you, but for BLASPHEMY, for you, being a mere man have claimed equality with God.”

The Jews in Isa’s day understood very well that he claimed to be God. This was not changed later by “Christians”…there weren’t any at the time he made this claim, only Jews.

–D <><

 

[Dulcimer]

Do you mind researching, why the idea of trinity is throwne out of NASB?

You are misinformed. My NASB does not abandon the idea of the Trinity…It’s still there.

–D <><

 

[chet]

I can see the effort you do to promote Jesus (pbuh) as GOD. Even GOD himself can see that. Oooops… Am I equlling my eyesight to the eyesight of GOD?!! Blashphemy!!! I may get killed now by any Jew.

People wrote whole book of lies and included in the Bible. You still debating on the inspiration of ‘apocrepha’. You think writing something to support promise of Holy Spirit is impossible? I don’t think so.

By the way, ‘Holy Spirit’ was not new to disciples or even to Jews. Spirit was here long before that.

Was it the Holy Spirit who was to come according to John 16:7-14?

7: But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. 8: When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness… 12: "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear. 13: But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. 14: He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you. –John 16:7-14. (Check John 7:39, Acts 1:3-5 also which says, the Holy Spirit cannot come into the world until after Jesus has departed.)

Jesus made promise of the coming of someone after he goes from the earth. Jesus said, the spirit will not come until he goes away. If it was the Holy Spirit, Spirit was here on earth many times even before Jesus was born.

Luke 1:41 Elizabeth had it long before Jesus went away.
Luke 1:67 So did Zechariah.

Check Gen 1:2, Ex 31:3, Num 11:16-26, 24:1-6, 27:18, Judges 3:9-10, 6:34, 11:29, 13:25, 14:6, 14:19, 15:14, 1 Sam 10:6-10, 16:13-14, 19:20-23, 23:1, Isai 59:21, Eze 2:2, 3:24, Dani 5:11, 1 Chr 12:18 and 2 Chr 20:14 etc…

Isn’t the promise contradicting with all the above verses? Even during the life time of Jesus, the Spirit was here on earth. Check below.

Luke 1:15 John the Baptist had the Holy Spirit from before his birth or the birth of Jesus.
Luke 11:13 It is obtained by prayer (presumably at any time).

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. 26 It had been revealed to him by the Holy Spirit that he would not die before he had seen the Lord’s Christ.

Jesus also had the Spirit in him. Check Mathew 12:31. The Jews had claimed that the miracles performed by the Holy Spirit through Jesus were the works of Satan. That was blasphemy. Jesus quickly warned them and in the warning tells that the Holy Spirit is God.

It was not the Holy Spirit, who was to come as per the promise; since the Spirit was here already according to the Bible.

Luke 2:25 Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him. Khalfan Where does it say in the Bible that the Apostles of Jesus had the Holy Spirit prior to his going to the Father.

The Gospel of John 14:16-17 And I will ask the Father, and he will give another Advocate to you, so that he may abide with you for eternity:
the Spirit of Truth, whom the world is not able to accept, because it neither perceives him nor knows him. But you shall know him. For he will remain with you, and he will be in you.

Acts 1:1-3 The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do and teach,until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Acts 2:2-4 And suddenly there came from heaven a noise like a violent rushing wind, and it filled the whole house where they were sitting. And there appeared to them tongues as of fire distributing themselves, and they rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance.

Khalfan you can not get around the fact that Jesus was speaking specifically to his Apostles.Here your argument falls flat on its face as a falsehood and you cannot get around it.