Muhammad rejected Christianity/Jesus

[bsroufek]

It seems to me that Muslims also reject the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit. I could
be wrong, but they don’t seem to understand/accept the idea of Divine Inspiration of Scriptures. They seem to accept some kind of “original” Scripture (pre-“distorted”). But they DO seem to believe that Muhammad was inspired. This confuses me a bit.

They seem to both accept and reject Scripture. They seem to accept the OT as is. Now the NT, I understand, they believe is distorted. Does that mean that it is both Inspired and corrupted? For why do they accept it but deny it? I’m really confused about the Muslim attitude toward Scripture, especially the NT. I guess what was stated earlier, that because they believe it’s distorted, they can pick and choose what they want to believe.

What do Muslims believe about the Holy Spirit?

 

[jakasaki]

It seems to me that Muslims also reject the Person and Ministry of the Holy Spirit. I could
be wrong, but they don’t seem to understand/accept the idea of Divine Inspiration of Scriptures. They seem to accept some kind of “original” Scripture (pre-“distorted”). But they DO seem to believe that Muhammad was inspired. This confuses me a bit.

They seem to both accept and reject Scripture. They seem to accept the OT as is. Now the NT, I understand, they believe is distorted. Does that mean that it is both Inspired and corrupted? For why do they accept it but deny it? I’m really confused about the Muslim attitude toward Scripture, especially the NT. I guess what was stated earlier, that because they believe it’s distorted, they can pick and choose what they want to believe.

What do Muslims believe about the Holy Spirit?

~ snip

What is the Holy Spirit according to Islam?

I would like to know the meaning of the Holy Spirit specifically in surat al-Ma’idah (5: 110). Jazakum Allah khayran.

~ snip

"The Holy Spirit mentioned in the above verse refers to the Angel Jibreel (Gabriel), also known as Jibraaeel; he is the message-bearer par excellence from Allah, the Lord of Glory and Grace; he is also the conduit of divine support and assistance bestowed on Prophets,

Messengers as well as righteous people who strive in the path of Allah.

~ snip

Source:

islamawareness.net/Angels/fatwa_holyspirit.html

 

[bsroufek]

Ahh, I did a search “Muslim Holy Spirit” and got a good wiki article explaining what (little) Muslims seem to understand of the Holy Spirit.

From their views of the Holy Trinity, they deny the Divinity of both Jesus and The Holy Spirit.
The Spirit apparently exists, to them, but that the Spirit is not a person or esp. a Divine Person.

Without Jesus and The Holy Spirit, actually not just without but denying Them, I believe it
to be really hard to evangelize Muslims.

 

[jakasaki]

Here’s another Islamic source:

The Holy Spirit has been mentioned in the Quran several times and many questions have been raised about the identity of the Holy Spirit in the Quran. Many of the questions come from our Christian brothers and sisters who wonder if the Holy Spirit in the Quran is the third of their Trinity beliefs.

Quran is very clear in denouncing Trinity (5:73) and affirming the Oneness of God Almighty. (112:1-4). The Holy Spirit in the Quran is clearly defined as the angel Gabriel who has been the angel-messenger between The Almighty God and the human beings, e.g. Mary, Jesus, and prophet Muhammed.

In reference to Gabriel, the Arabic Quran calls him; “Ruhhil-Qudus” (Holy Spirit), “Ruuhanaa” (Our Spirit), “Ruuhul-'Amiin” (The Honest Spirit) and "Al-Ruh’ " (The Spirit) . Thus, when reading the verses in the Quran, the whole Quran, we see that Gabriel is the Holy and Honest Bearer of Revelations. We learn from 2:97 that these references are indeed talking about Gabriel.

[Quran 2:97] Say, “Anyone who opposes Gabriel should know that he has brought down this (Quran) into your heart, in accordance with God’s will, confirming previous scriptures, and providing guidance and good news for the believers.”

To understand the connection between the Angel Gabriel and calling him the Spirit, the Holy Spirit and the Honest Spirit in the Quran we should also read all related verses, 16:102 & 26:192-193.

[Quran 16:102] Say, “The Holy Spirit has brought it (Quran) down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters.”

[Quran 26:192] This (Quran) is a revelation from the Lord of the universe.
[Quran 26:193] The Honest Spirit (Gabriel) came down with it.

Thus, the following verses from the Quran are also talking about Gabriel.

[Quran 2:87] We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that every time a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed.

[Quran 2:253] These messengers; we blessed some of them more than others. For example, God spoke to one, and we raised some of them to higher ranks. And we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit.

[Quran 5:110] God will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel.

[Quran 19:17-19] While a barrier separated her from them, we sent to her our Spirit. He went to her in the form of a human being. She said, “I seek refuge in the Most Gracious, that you may be righteous.” He said, “I am the messenger of your Lord, to grant you a pure son.”

[Quran 78:38] The day will come when the Spirit and the angels will stand in a row. None will speak except those permitted by the Most Gracious, and they will utter only what is right.

[Quran 97:4] The angels and the Spirit descend therein, by their Lord’s leave, to carry out every command.

It is interesting that God chose to mention the " Spirit and the angels" in these last two verses . In the Arabic language it is not unusual to specify part of a whole group to emphasize the significance of that part. Quran has many examples like these, e.g… in 55:68 God talks about fruits, dates and pomegranate to emphasize the last two kinds of fruits.

[Quran 55:68] In them are fruits, date palms, and pomegranate.

In 2:238 God talks about Salat and the middle salat to emphasize its significance of the middle salat.

It is also interesting to know that the name " Gabriel" in Arabic (Gbryl) has the same gematrical value of the word "Al-Ruh’ " (the Spirit), both being 245. G=3 , B=2, R=200, Y=10 and L=30, therefore 3+2+200+10+30 = 245. While the word Al-Ruh’ (The spirit) has , A=1, L=30, R=200, U (waw)= 6 , H’=8, therefore 1+30+200+6+8 = 245

We should also know that the Arabic word “Roh” has been used in the Quran to mean the “revelation from God” as in 16:2, 17:85 and 40:15 and also to mean the soul in many other verses, e.g. 21:91, 66:12, 15:29, 38:72…etc
**
In conclusion, the “Holy Spirit” in the Quran refers to the angle Gabriel** and has nothing to do with Trinity or part of a Trinity. Trinity is denounced in the strongest language in the Quran.

Source:

submission.org/Holy_Spirit.html

 

[jakasaki]

Ahh, I did a search “Muslim Holy Spirit” and got a good wiki article explaining what (little) Muslims seem to understand of the Holy Spirit.

From their views of the Holy Trinity, they deny the Divinity of both Jesus and The Holy Spirit.
The Spirit apparently exists, to them, but that the Spirit is not a person or esp. a Divine Person.

Without Jesus and The Holy Spirit, actually not just without but denying Them, I believe it
to be really hard to evangelize Muslims.

You really can’t blame the Muslims - it’s what they been taught - it’s whatever Mohammad said and is written in their Islamic book.

There is an Islamic hadith out there from Bukhari saying something like “do not question what you don’t understand”… or something like that.

If you want, I’ll go & grab it & post it.

 

[bsroufek]

You really can’t blame the Muslims - it’s what they been taught - it’s whatever Mohammad said and is written in their Islamic book.

There is an Islamic hadith out there from Bukhari saying something like “do not question what you don’t understand”… or something like that.

If you want, I’ll go & grab it & post it.

Since Muslims are taught to deny the Divine Personhood of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, it seems hard to me to evangelize them. Even to speak about Them as Divine or part of the Trinity is a sentence of death, so it is a very strong denial.

I wonder if there are Muslims who want to believe, or even DO believe, in the Trinity but are afraid to admit to it due to the sentence of death?

 

[bsroufek]

Since Muslims are taught to deny the Divine Personhood of both Jesus and the Holy Spirit, it seems hard to me to evangelize them. Even to speak about Them as Divine or part of the Trinity is a sentence of death, so it is a very strong denial.

I wonder if there are Muslims who want to believe, or even DO believe, in the Trinity but are afraid to admit to it due to the sentence of death?

From this, I think we should provide “safe havens” for Muslims who believe but are afraid to admit to it in their society. Safe havens would probably have to be in non-Muslim countries, but at least they would be free to believe without the conversion punishment.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

What do Muslims believe about the Holy Spirit?

If a Muslim can **cross ** that carnal mind of understanding that **Islam calls them to physically surrender to the will of God **and raise his humanity (flesh), not just submission to God, but raise his/her mind and heart in faith, it is here where the Holy Spirit can reveal and teach them about Jesus Christ salvific work.

Mulslims claim that God the Holy Spirit is blasphemy. Muslims reject the person of the Holy Spirit. Because they believe the “Person” that Jesus was sending from Heaven was not in the Person of the Holy Spirit, but that it was Islam’s prophet Muhammad.

If they accept the person of the Holy Spirit, Islam’s theology of the Christian scriptures falls apart, and their prophet Muhammad was never sent by God, as they claim.

If the Holy Spirit enters Islam, Islam falls apart. Because Islam is based on physical submission to the will of God proves their obedience to God. All things of the Spirit are null and void or secondary to the physical submission of the Muslim to the will of God (Islam) that pleases “Allah.”

What is interesting to learn about Islam? when they are at prayer, the enlightenment comes from the physical submission, or is Islamic prayer reaching the hearing of God? It is here if discernment can be made from the spirit or from the carnal mind submitting his physical body to the will of Allah.

 

[bsroufek]

I found an article that mentions several reasons Muslims convert to Christianity, according to interviews of Muslims.

It seems that our love of each other, as Jesus said, was the primary reason. The other reason (to me) is their exposure to the love of God for all people as found in Scripture, especially in Jesus.

So, the harshness of Islamic teachings seems to be its greatest enemy.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

I found an article that mentions several reasons Muslims convert to Christianity, according to interviews of Muslims.

It seems that our love of each other, as Jesus said, was the primary reason. The other reason (to me) is their exposure to the love of God for all people as found in Scripture, especially in Jesus.

So, the harshness of Islamic teachings seems to be its greatest enemy.

Ahh yes, let us not forget that most powerful weapon that defeats all enemies “LOVE”. I’m compelled to go meditate on the crucifix, that gives witness to the greatest LOVE revealed in all time.

Peace be with you all

 

[MartinJordan]

There is record that the Catholic Church learned of this new heresy from the Arab Territories. The church councils usually dubbed a heresy after it’s founding father. The church considered Islam in the beginning a Christian heresy from the east and labeled it Muhammadism, which is a term that is not used today by the Church to identify Islam.

The concept of Jesus from which I speak, comes from the thinking and sentiments of when the early Catholic Church considered Islam a Christian heresy from it was founded by Muhammad.

This Church had already confirmed that Muhammad’s views of Jesus were already rejected by the Catholic Church and considered heretical. The mistake was that the Church authorities did not take this heresy very seriously. Maybe because none of the clergy were teaching or making claims to an Islam Jesus, only the already exiled Arian heresies, which Islam adopted the Arain Christian heretical view of Jesus.

Thanks for the response. I would like to have any link on this if you can find it.

Wasn’t it till early 20th century Islam was also known as Mohammedism?

In any case the burden of proof is on Islam which is 700 years after the Christ. That is why today certain Muslims are trying to use the Bible as proof that in scripture Mohammed was prophecied.

It is what I call an act of desperation and it falls flat.

MJ

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Yes Muhammad rejected Christ, and by rejecting Christ before men and giving men a false image of Christ to believe (as a mere man) he worshipped a different God despite what Catholics want to believe.

 

[TheSufi]

Thanks for the response. I would like to have any link on this if you can find it.

Wasn’t it till early 20th century Islam was also known as Mohammedism?

I think Muhammadism was coined by orientalist. Muslims have never called Islam Muhammadism.

In any case the burden of proof is on Islam which is 700 years after the Christ. That is why today certain Muslims are trying to use the Bible as proof that in scripture Mohammed was prophecied.

It is what I call an act of desperation and it falls flat.

MJ

I have studied a little bit of Christianity and if I take all the biblical quotes that Muslims use to show Islam is prophesied in the bible, trying to objective, and fair, i would say, majority of the prophesies can be used for other than Prophet Muhammad, except one.

**
“As for Ishmael, I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him… and I shall make him a great nation. But My covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”** (Genesis 17:20-21)

The tribe of Ishmael was not made great until the coming of Prophet Muhammad. Great can only be in reference to spiritual and righteous things, since God is speaking.

And God knows best.

 

[doormouse73]

I think Muhammadism was coined by orientalist. Muslims have never called Islam Muhammadism.

I have studied a little bit of Christianity and if I take all the biblical quotes that Muslims use to show Islam is prophesied in the bible, trying to objective, and fair, i would say, majority of the prophesies can be used for other than Prophet Muhammad, except one.

**
“As for Ishmael, I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him… and I shall make him a great nation. ** But My covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.” (Genesis 17:20-21)

The tribe of Ishmael was not made great until the coming of Prophet Muhammad. Great can only be in reference to spiritual and righteous things, since God is speaking.

And God knows best.

so who did God make his covenant with ??

 

[TheSufi]

so who did God make his covenant with ??

According to the bible He made it with Isaac. Are you of the tribe of Isaac?

 

[doormouse73]

According to the bible He made it with Isaac. Are you of the tribe of Isaac?

so God made his covenant with the people of the book??

 

[TheSufi]

so God made his covenant with the people of the book??

No, with the tribe of Isaac, it is quite specific. It could not be the People of the Book because, not everybody among the people of the book are of the tribe of Isaac.

 

[jakasaki]

~ snip

**
“As for Ishmael, I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him… and I shall make him a great nation. ** But My covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.” (Genesis 17:20-21)

The tribe of Ishmael was not made great until the coming of Prophet Muhammad. Great can only be in reference to spiritual and righteous things, since God is speaking.

And God knows best.

Try reading before Genesis 17

Genesis 16…

11 And the angel of the Lord said to her,

“Behold, you are pregnant
and shall bear a son.
You shall call his name Ishmael,[c]
because the Lord has listened to your affliction.
12 He shall be a wild donkey of a man,
his hand against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen.”

 

[kimg901]

I have studied a little bit of Christianity and if I take all the *** biblical quotes that Muslims use to show Islam is prophesied in the bible***, trying to objective, and fair, i would say, majority of the prophesies can be used for other than Prophet Muhammad, except one.

“As for Ishmael, I have heard thee. Behold I have blessed him… and I shall make him a great nation. But My covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year.”

(Genesis 17:20-21)

.

Just not muslims but other religions as well. These other religions will say that the bible prophesied for them too. But the fact is that other religions have twisted the words for their own use to make it sound like their religion is being foretold in the bible. All of us here could do the same if we really wanted.

 

[Reuben_J]

Just not muslims but other religions as well. These other religions will say that the bible prophesied for them too. But the fact is that other religions have twisted the words for their own use to make it sound like their religion is being foretold in the bible. All of us here could do the same if we really wanted.

Yes. Event though he makes them (Ishamel) a great nation, the covenant was with Isaac. It is through Isaac that the promise of God comes about.He will be their God and they will be His people. God being a covenant God does not change and He will always true to His promises.