Muhammed or Jesus: The prophet like unto Moses

[planten]

There is an interesting verse in the koran:

Chapter #47 mohamad (surah) #35

Do not fail and cry for “peace” -
Isn’t that telling muslims do not ask/cry for peace and allah will be with you and allah will not hold any grudges for you actions.

If I am reading the message wrong, perhaps our muslim members can correct my translation.

Thank you and May God Bless Us All, Everyone!
Regards,
Pam
New York

jakasaki, you are reading it wrongly. Please start your reading from verse 47:33. Then read verse 47:34. It is all about the war monger enemies of Islam who are written as Kafir in those verses.

It is about them that one should not show any weakness. Please be fair and post the translation of verses 47:33-35. Thank you. All will soon be clear.

 

[R_not]

I have been donating to the Thomas More Law Center for a few years and visited their website the other day. They had a video featuring a speech by Brigitte Gabriel thomasmore.org/default-sb_thomasmore.html?730936335 (page down).

Thank you very much - she is a hero of mine!!

 

[R_not]

I have been donating to the Thomas More Law Center for a few years and visited their website the other day. They had a video featuring a speech by Brigitte Gabriel thomasmore.org/default-sb_thomasmore.html?730936335 (page down).

I do believe that this is a worthy organization. Unlike the ACLU which is obviously been infiltrated by muslims on a jihad.

I bought the video and gave $50 willingly to this organization. Brigette is so very passionate and I can hear it in her voice. She has first hand knowledge of the violence islam brings and fights it as we all should - we don’t have to be violent and we can use our own system to fight it, as this organization helps her.

Or else we condemn our children to islam.

She talks of the infiltration of our schools now. What we have done is let the communists/marxists infiltrate our schools and what do we have now - left wing idiots in all facets of our life, especially our media. And they seem to like to push the islamic agenda. They behave as if they are soooooo intelligent when in fact they are islam’s useful Idiots. The communist/marxist have had their useful idiots too - and in the end they were discarded like trash. It shows our left doesn’t have one idea of history! I guess that is what happens when they try rewriting it! Or stop teaching it.

I actually worked on a letter to some colleges about this infiltration by the MSA (muslim student association) that has direct ties to the muslim brotherhood. But, they need heavies like Brigette and this organization - the Thomas More Law Center!

 

[R_not]

jakasaki, you are reading it wrongly. Please start your reading from verse 47:33. Then read verse 47:34. It is all about the war monger enemies of Islam who are written as Kafir in those verses.

It is about them that one should not show any weakness. Please be fair and post the translation of verses 47:33-35. Thank you. All will soon be clear.

Yeah, just keep in mind that you can be labeled a kafir if you don’t want to be converted and know islam. If you don’t want to be subjugated either. Or if you know what mohammed was - an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord.

Their idea of peace is terror (killing and pillaging in dar al harb) to ‘open the world to islam’. Their definitions for words are much different than ours. Toleration has no meaning in islam for the muslims.

Tolerance in islam, or the lack thereof

 

[planten]

I understand that the name “Lucifer” also means, ironically, “Angel of Light”, as he was known before the Fall.

**That is all the false thinking of some christians. Because the angel we speak of is the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, who is also mentioned in the bible and the Quran.

If that angel is Lucifer then you will have to think that same Lucifer was visitng Joseph the carpentar too and Lucifer informed Joseph the carpentar that Mary was made pregnant already and not to go near her.

Lucifer was guiding Jospeph the carpentar to take Jesus to Egypt. It is the same Lucifer you seem to know. WE do not know of any Lucifer. The devil is made of fire. The angels are made from light. The mankind is made from mud. And so was your Jesus made from mud like all other humans.

Please have a balanced mind. Look into your bad beliefs. That is all due to your antipathy towards a very senior respectable honest capable, successful prophet and perfect man of God i.e. Muhammad.

If you had even a minor amount of respect for Muhammad then you would not need to invent new theories about the angels and the devils. Well, anyhow, I do not mind. You can have your devils, i.e. Lucifer and we Muslims can have our Archangel i.e.Gabriel, the Holy spirit.**

 

[planten]

Yeah, just keep in mind that you can be labeled a kafir if you don’t want to be converted and know islam. If you don’t want to be subjugated either. Or if you know what mohammed was - an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic, assasin,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord.

Their idea of peace is terror (killing and pillaging in dar al harb) to ‘open the world to islam’. Their definitions for words are much different than ours. Toleration has no meaning in islam for the muslims.

Tolerance in islam, or the lack thereof

R_not, Whatever you have written above all applies to the christians like you and your ancestors, your unholy men, the unmarried mothers and the unmarried fathers in the church, today.

 

[R_not]

**That is all the false thinking of some christians. Because the angel we speak of is the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, who is also mentioned in the bible and the Quran.

If that angel is Lucifer then you will have to think that same Lucifer was visitng Joseph the carpentar too and Lucifer informed Joseph the carpentar that Mary was made pregnant already and not to go near her.

Lucifer was guiding Jospeph the carpentar to take Jesus to Egypt. It is the same Lucifer you seem to know. WE do not know of any Lucifer. The devil is made of fire. The angels are made from light. The mankind is made from mud. And so was your Jesus made from mud like all other humans.

Please have a balanced mind. Look into your bad beliefs. That is all due to your antipathy towards a very senior respectable honest capable, successful prophet and perfect man of God i.e. Muhammad.

If you had even a minor amount of respect for Muhammad then you would not need to invent new theories about the angels and the devils. Well, anyhow, I do not mind. You can have your devils, i.e. Lucifer and we Muslims can have our Archangel i.e.Gabriel, the Holy spirit.**

Since Lucifer is the Prince of Lies - he could say that he was God for that matter.

Lucifer wouldn’t be the one aiding Joseph nor telling Mary that she was bearing God’s Son. But, Lucifer would be the one telling mohammed to kill, lie, steal, take other men’s wives, take children, promise an orgy in heaven of virgins and little boys, etc. Those are all things that Lucifer, or Satan, would say.

‘respect for mohammed’ - hhmmm, interesting since he had no respect for people like me. For people like me he would have killed or subjugated. maybe even tortured since that is also in his ‘bag’ of deeds. And you muslims think mohammed was the ‘perfect’ human while all he did was show us hate, killing, and other nasty things towards people.

Bukhari:V4B52N233 “Allah’s Apostle forbade people to travel to a hostile country carrying copies of the Qur’an.” This proves that every Islamic conquest was about power, control, and money, not religion.

Muhammad didn’t care for the Persians. It’s amazing that Iranians and Iraqis follow a prophet who wanted them destroyed. Bukhari:V4B52N190 “Allah’s Apostle sent a letter to Khosrau. When he read the letter he tore it. The Prophet then invoked Allah to disperse them with full dispersion, to destroy them severely.”
Showing that he could hate everybody, the religious leader who cursed Arabs, murdered Jews, and condemned Persians went after Byzantine Christians. Bukhari:V4B52N267 “The Prophet said, ‘Khosrau will be ruined. There won’t be a Persian King after him. Caesar will be ruined. There will be no Caesar after him. You will spend their treasures in Allah’s Cause.’ He proclaimed, ‘War is deceit.’” As a religion, Islam is bankrupt because the currency of faith is truth. However, as a war manifesto and terrorist dogma, Islam is perfect. It even comes complete with handy hints. “Use what you steal to equip your militants so they can steal more. And lie all you want; it makes conquering and plundering easier.”

Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’” When you combine this with Qur’an 8:7, “Wipe the Infidels out to the last,” and Qur’an 8:39, “So fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam,” you get an ongoing state of war that encourages Muslims to continually deceive and murder infidels. That is why they use our media to proclaim: “Jihad is a spiritual struggle,” and “Islam is peaceful.” Muslims lie to us while their comrades kill us, because their “prophet” and “god” ordered them to do these things.

The above quote was from Jihad.

So, no I do not believe that mohammed saw the Angel Gabriel. I do believe that IF he saw an angel - it was the fallen one since islam is based on deception which the fallen one is known for.

 

[R_not]

R_not, Whatever you have written above all applies to the christians like you and your ancestors, your unholy men, the unmarried mothers and the unmarried fathers in the church, today.

thanks, you just show me what I am saying is correct.

I still pray for you planten. I feel sorry for you. I don’t know how one can keep up the energy of hatred all the time. Hating the West, the Jews, the kufir, the polytheists,… hate hate hate.

We do not set ourselves up as judges, juries and executioners as what the muslims do. We let God judge those who you would so easily stone, hang, behead, or beat up. In islam there is nothing like forgiveness and letting God do the judging of our fellow human beings. Of course there is not when the predominat theme is ‘hate, hate, hate…’.

 

[R_not]

I notice, planten, that you really dislike it when someone fills in the parts of islam that you sort of forget to mention.

:tsktsk:

 

[Sam_777]

Sam_777, you are in Saudi Arabia. You seem to be affected by the Saudi Wahhabi propaganda in the matters of Hadith. Those Saudis are not right.

But here you have mis-informed every one about the revelation of chapter 30 of Quran.

Am I the one! or you who is using Ahmadiyya corrupted Quran!!!, why are you altering the translation of the word “الم” into something completely different!

That chapter 30 (Al-Room) was revealed in Makkah (Not Madinah). See the Quran, any Wahhabi Quran. The prophet had not migrated till 622 A.D. So this chapter was revealed before 622 A.D. And the Persians had beaten (defeated) the Romans before 622 A.D. It is all history. You can consult your Saudi Clerics on this matter. They will not misguide you.

http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon13.gif sorry planten , but the Battle of Badr happened in year 624AD, here is the English reference for that, and that Quran verse 30:2 revealed by Allah on that same day when Muslims had victory over the pagans per these three references:

Source#1**:**

سنن الترمذي:
ما كان يوم ‏ ‏بدر ‏ ‏ظهرت ‏ ‏الروم ‏ ‏على ‏ ‏فارس ‏ ‏فأعجب ذلك المؤمنين فنزلت ‏الم غلبت الروم ‏ ‏إلى قوله ‏ ‏يفرح المؤمنون بنصر الله
​

Source#2**:**

أسباب النـزول

أخبرنا إسماعيل بن إبراهيم الواعظ قال: أخبرنا محمد بن أحمد بن حامد العطار قال: أخبرنا أحمد بن الحسين بن عبد الجبار قال: أخبرنا الحرث بن شريح قال: أخبرنا المعتمر بن سليمان عن أبيه، عن الأعمش، عن عطية العوفي، عن أبي سعيد الخدري قال: لما كان يوم بدر ظهرت الروم على فارس، فأعجب المؤمنون بذلك فنـزلت: الم غُلِبَتِ الرُّومُ إلى قوله:يَفْرَحُ الْمُؤْمِنُونَ بِنَصْرِ اللَّهِ قال: يفرح المؤمنون بظهور الروم على فارس
​

Source#3:

**تفسير الطبري
**حدثنا محمد بن المثنى , قال : ثنا يحيى بن حماد , قال : ثنا أبو عوانة , عن سليمان , عن عطية , عن أبي سعيد , قال : لما كان يوم بدر , غلبت الروم على فارس , ففرح المسلمون بذلك , فأنزل الله { الم غلبت الروم } إلى آخر الآية .
​

 

[inJESUS]

According to Deuteronomy 9:10-11 it states that Moses introduced a covenant relationship between God and the children of Israel when he brought the Ten Commandments down from the mount.This covenant that God made with the sons and daughters of Jacob was sealed with blood.
Exodus 24:8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.”

Likewise with Jesus.

But seems Allah sent the Jews a prophet to give them a covenant seeled by their own blood.

Moses supplicates God on their behalf, saying “Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if Thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray Thee, out of Thy book which Thou hast written” (vv. 31:32). How this reminds us of Him who “having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end” (John 13:1)

Muhammad so loved the Jews he killed them and expelled them.

Moses’Death was for the benefit of God’s people. “It went ill with Moses for their sakes” (Ps. 106:32); “But the Lord was wroth with me for your sakes” (Deut. 3:26).

Am sure Muhammad doesn’t fit since Allah was “quick to fulfill your desires” so am not sure Allah was wroth with Muhammad for the Jews’ sake.

All in all, who are we kidding? God was promising the Jews a prophet like Moses, not a man who will reject their scriptures and start killing them. Besides, the prophet, if it were other than the Messiah as Muslims think, this prophet is to come before the Messiah, not after, since after the Messiah, there are NO covenants but of course these “must” be corrupt.

 

[planten]

Since Lucifer is the Prince of Lies - he could say that he was God for that matter.

Lucifer wouldn’t be the one aiding Joseph nor telling Mary that she was bearing God’s Son. But, Lucifer would be the one telling mohammed to kill, lie, steal, take other men’s wives, take children, promise an orgy in heaven of virgins and little boys, etc. Those are all things that Lucifer, or Satan, would say.

‘respect for mohammed’ - hhmmm, interesting since he had no respect for people like me. For people like me he would have killed or subjugated. maybe even tortured since that is also in his ‘bag’ of deeds. And you muslims think mohammed was the ‘perfect’ human while all he did was show us hate, killing, and other nasty things towards people.

The above quote was from Jihad.

So, no I do not believe that mohammed saw the Angel Gabriel. I do believe that IF he saw an angel - it was the fallen one since islam is based on deception which the fallen one is known for.

**We know our things better. But think of your Lucifer who advised Joseph the carpentar at different times. We see a Lucifer taking Jesus around for a ride for forty days tempting Jesus. That was bad. What had Lucifer to do with Jesus and how dare he go near jesus and advising Jesus.
The Lucifer is very much in your bible. If he could tempt jesus for forty days then why he (Lucifer) could not visit the father of Jesus in a dream.

That was a covert operation of Lucifer on Joseph, the carpentar, the father of Jesus**.

 

[planten]

J C, Please tell, you have one eye or two eyes? Did you ever see the abuse being thrown on the messenger of God i.e. Muhammad?. I wonder why you did not check the person quickly, please? I know you had been advocating decency in the past.
Now you seem to be highly disturbed for no cause. You may please ignore my post. It was not meant for you at all.

 

[planten]

All in all, who are we kidding? God was promising the Jews a prophet like Moses, not a man who will reject their scriptures and start killing them. Besides, the prophet, if it were other than the Messiah as Muslims think, this prophet is to come before the Messiah, not after, since after the Messiah, there are NO covenants but of course these “must” be corrupt.

God had promised the Jews a prophet, the like of Moses, from the brethren of the Jews. Not from the brethren of Moses. Jews cannot be the brethren of the Jews.
That prophet was not to come before Jesus. He had not arrived till the time of Jesus because the men sent by the Jewish elders to meet John the baptist had asked John three questions: Jews were waiting for three persons, as follows:

1. Are you Alias?
2. Are you Christ?
3. Are you that prophet? (See John ch. 1 )

John the baptist denied being any of them. It means “That Prophet” had not yet arrived till time of Jesus. If he had arrived then Jews would not be waiting for him.

If That Prophet was the Christ, then they should not have asked for That Prophet separately a second time. Asking only once was enough. Please see these things.

 

[wina]

That prophet was not to come before Jesus. He had not arrived till the time of Jesus because the men sent by the Jewish elders to meet John the baptist had asked John three questions: Jews were waiting for three persons, as follows:

1. Are you Alias?
2. Are you Christ?
3. Are you that prophet? (See John ch. 1 )

John the baptist denied being any of them. It means “That Prophet” had not yet arrived till time of Jesus. If he had arrived then Jews would not be waiting for him.

If That Prophet was the Christ, then they should not have asked for That Prophet separately a second time. Asking only once was enough. Please see these things.

Planten, I’ve noticed that you like to bring this chapter over and over again

 

[R_not]

**We know our things better. But think of your Lucifer who advised Joseph the carpentar at different times. We see a Lucifer taking Jesus around for a ride for forty days tempting Jesus. That was bad. What had Lucifer to do with Jesus and how dare he go near jesus and advising Jesus.
The Lucifer is very much in your bible. If he could tempt jesus for forty days then why he (Lucifer) could not visit the father of Jesus in a dream.

That was a covert operation of Lucifer on Joseph, the carpentar, the father of Jesus**.

The devil came at the end of Jesus’ fast. Jesus was tempted but did not fall for the devil’s temptation.

And it seems that mohammed did indeed fall for the devil’s temptation. they are called the ‘Satanic verses’ in the koran. It was others who told mohammed to take out those verses - not mohammed. Such as the worshiping of mohammed’s other goddesses - the three daughters of allah from the pagan religion.

ditto that satan is all over the koran. When one follows Satan one deceives others, kills others, steals from others, hates others, etc. These are all against the 10 Commandments. These are sins. mohammed had gone against most of the 10 commandments that he had to redefine sin for his followers - the muslims. And this doesn’t seem to bother you and you keep on going on and on about Jesus being tempted.

The Angel Gabriel was the one who came to Joseph in a dream and also gave Mary the good news of her being the Mother of God. And mohammed’s version of Gabriel came to bring him a new religion that calls for the extermination of so many of God’s people which does not make sense. How many more times do I have to write this?

The only one that would tell someone to do so many despicable things is the devil - he cannot promise anything other than carnal pleasures. mohammed was tempted many times and gave in many times.

Islam is basically full of human temptations… Men are tempted to give in to Islam because they can have alot of sex. All the women they want…or can afford. Its legal in Islam. And this thing about the 72 virgins in heaven waiting for their shahids to come to them is just a lie. A temptation. A physical temptation. Why would their be sex in heaven when sex is strictly a ‘earthly’ thing. It is More…only used to create children and the pleasure is a biproduct of it…So a Muslims way of thinking then i guess you can have children in heaven to? There are far greater things in the after life than sex with women. Such things are so grand that we cannot possible imagine the pleasures of heaven. Just as Satan tempted Jesus in The Book Of Matthew. New Testement …

But islam doesn’t make sense and so many hold on to it anyway. It even makes less sense for a woman to revert back to sin, or islam.

 

[sedonaman]

Men are tempted to give in to Islam because they can have a lot of sex.

They can also revert to their feral state with the blessings of the deity. What more could you ask for?

 

[swariffin]

Though has been refuted as many times he brought this up for discussion.

 

[swariffin]

**That is all the false thinking of some christians. Because the angel we speak of is the Holy Spirit, Gabriel, who is also mentioned in the bible and the Quran.

If that angel is Lucifer then you will have to think that same Lucifer was visitng Joseph the carpentar too and Lucifer informed Joseph the carpentar that Mary was made pregnant already and not to go near her.

Lucifer was guiding Jospeph the carpentar to take Jesus to Egypt. It is the same Lucifer you seem to know. WE do not know of any Lucifer. The devil is made of fire. The angels are made from light. The mankind is made from mud. And so was your Jesus made from mud like all other humans.

Please have a balanced mind. Look into your bad beliefs. That is all due to your antipathy towards a very senior respectable honest capable, successful prophet and perfect man of God i.e. Muhammad.

If you had even a minor amount of respect for Muhammad then you would not need to invent new theories about the angels and the devils. Well, anyhow, I do not mind. You can have your devils, i.e. Lucifer and we Muslims can have our Archangel i.e.Gabriel, the Holy spirit.**

You are WRONG. Christian believe the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God proceeded from God. So, Holy Spirit is God. The Angel is the creation of God.

Lucifer is the name of the Devil, and certainly not the one visiting Joseph the carpenter. Please show the bible that Lucifer was the one advising Joseph the carpenter.

 

[swariffin]

**We know our things better. But think of your Lucifer who advised Joseph the carpentar at different times. We see a Lucifer taking Jesus around for a ride for forty days tempting Jesus. That was bad. What had Lucifer to do with Jesus and how dare he go near jesus and advising Jesus.
The Lucifer is very much in your bible. If he could tempt jesus for forty days then why he (Lucifer) could not visit the father of Jesus in a dream.

That was a covert operation of Lucifer on Joseph, the carpentar, the father of Jesus**.

The Bible is clear that it was NOT Lucifer who appear to Joseph. Please quote the bible. Surely lucifer can visit anybody, but such visit definitely failed as Joseph, Mary and Jesus all follow the plan of God. The fruit of the teaching, as the most contemporary example is in the work of Mother Theresa, for instance.

Lucifer can also visited Muhammad, Planten. The question whether Muhammad was tempted or not can be seen today. 1.400 years is enough to show that.