Muhammed or...

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Hello,

Mr Ex Nihilo is just trying to not let you get sweapt of your feet by blind hatred. This doesnt help anything any where.

We have our portion who do bad people and its not easy to combat this with most of our countries in secular dictatorships and poverty. I can controll a terrorist in Britain no more than you can.

Hope you understand. At least some will.

salam
I think I do understand meedo.

It’s one thing to point to examples of evil expressed within the context of another’s faith. It’s a whole other thing entirely to blacklist the entire religion itself as intrinsically evil and totally without merit in the eyes of God.

And, from a Catholic standpoint, that’s what I’m fighting against in regards to Islam. If people are going to criticize Islam as a whole, I would hope and pray that they examine the claims of the entire faith and the examples of the entire popullation before they make their criticisms.
 
Rodrigo Bivar:
I wonder what is intrinsically good about this?

Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

or this?
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7:
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old.

An Ayeshath Radhiyallahu Anha: AnnaNnabiyya Sallallahu Alaihi Vasallama Thazawwajaha vahiya binthu sitha sineen, va udkhilath alaihi vahiya binthu this’in.
I actually fail to see any redeeming feature about Islam hence I cannot reconcile Islam with Christianity.
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exoflare:
Not to mention endorsing polygamy, making your ideal society where members of all other religions will have to pay a special tax for the “privilege” of living in peace, and putting apostates to death…
But, to be fair, if that’s all that you see when you look to Islam, then neither of you have actually looked very hard to see what Islam actually has to offer.

I’m not a Muslim. I have no intentions of becoming a Muslim either. I think I’ve made these two points very clear.

But have either of you considered what happens to Christians in Israel under Jewish rule?

I may not necessarilly agree with every article produced by the SCP Journal. In other words, I cannot make the claim to have read all the articles and verify that they are in concordance with solid Catholic teachings. But of what I have read, I’ve found this group to be excellent in presenting clear trends within religious circles.

And, more specifically, Brooks Alexander’s Between Isaac & Ishmael was an excellent look at the plight of Christian believers in the Middle East-- Christians of many denomintions persecuted for their faith by fundamentalists on both sides of the Arab/Jew divide.

In other words, many of the examples you’ve both given above could easilly be pointed out in this region of the world regarding Jewish authorites too-- yet I don’t see either of you getting up in arms about it. For that matter, I hardly even hear anything in the news about it.

And even saying this, even though there is persecution against Christians in Israel from Jewish authorities, and even though Israel is considered the heart of many Jewish people worldwide, I would never dare claim that these kinds of persecutions represent the views of all the Jewish people in Isreal, let alone all the Jewish people in the world. To do so would put me on a level of ignorance equal to the hatred and stupidity of the neo-nazi movement. 😦
 
May God Bless you Ex Nihilo.

May God keep you as a voice of truth and reason.

Peace be to you
 
Mr ex nillio

Your question of what happens to Christians under Jewish rule -

I’m confused. I clicked on that and got NO answer only an ad for a magazine that did not illustrate your point.

Can you explain the position you or quote from this magazine?
 
that site is so old you cant even order the dang magazine Mr ex nillio-

They claim to be experts on new spiritual trends mr ex nillio-

Islam sadly, is not new. Nor is Judaism.

What denomination prints this magazine?

That looks like a magazine I could use if I ran out of tp in the bathroom frankly. No , not even good enough for that.

salam mr ex nillio
 
mr ex nillio-

When did Jewish people put apostates to death?
Back when Judiasm was more robust than the early church, there most certainly were examples of Christian persecution, and persecution unto death for matter. Even as late as the accounts of St. Polycarp demonstrate this kind of violence toward Christianity from certain Jewish authorities-- and I don’t think these instances are examples of anti-Semitism. It seems to have reached it zenith under Simon Ben-Kosiba.

As you probably know, the Jewish revolt against Rome, which began about 66 AD, ended tragically four years later with the decimation of the Jerusalem Temple. It was not, however, the last attempt at Jewish national sovereignty.

Another revolt began in 132 AD, led by a Jewish general by the name Shimon ben Kosiba. As early as 115 AD Kosiba had defied Emperor Trajan. At that time, and again in 132, Kosiba was successful in his military exploits.

Early on it appeared as though, under Kosiba’s command, the Israeli military might successfully defy Rome. The Jewish people were understandably eager to be free from the oppressive Roman occupation of Israel.

However, this zeal for sovereignty so heightened people’s messianic expectations that, when Kosiba met with initial victories, Rabbi Akiva recklessly declared him “Bar-Kochba” (“son of a star”) - a title taken from Numbers 24, a prophecy which referred to the Messiah.

It is worth noting that, up to this time, Christians had been fighting right alongside their non-messianic brothers. But once Akiva’s pronouncement was made, that became impossible, and the Christians withdrew their support and involvement in the revolt.

They could not, in good conscience, be aligned with one they knew to be a ‘false messiah’. The mighty Roman Empire, however, was not about to permit one of its smallest vassal countries to defy it, and within three years, the Jewish revolt was decisively crushed.

Kosiba was killed. Akiva was tortured and put to death. Thousands of those who fought under the banner of this false messiah were likewise put to death.

Consequently, many Christians were killed during this time because they would not fight alongside Kosiba. In other words, he persecuted Christians when they refused to support his revolt-- and he persecuted them unto death.

Now some anti-Semites would look at these kinds of examples and claim that all Jewish people are evil-- and yet we both know that this is not true. These examples are specific examples within history where ‘some’ Jewish people (not ‘all’ jewish people) behaved poorly.

And, in addition to this, it needs to be noted that, even in the case of Jews who did not accept Jesus as the Messiah, still nonetheless many Jews also rejected Kosiba’s claims as Messiah too. So just because a Jewish person rejects Jesus’s messianic claim does not automatically lump them in with those particularly misguided Jewish people who persecuted Christians under Simon bar Kokhba either.

It’s well known that Christian persecution by ‘certain’ Jewish authorites stopped when the population of Christianity became larger than the population of Judaism. In fact, at least in some circles, quite the opposite happened over the years since Christianity has grown. 😦

Nonetheless, at least in areas where Judaism has become dominant again, such at the re-instated nation of Israel, we do see a returning spirit of Simon bar Kokhba in a sense. Simon bar Kokhba most certainly does not speak for all Jewish people. He doesn’t even speak for Jews who have rejected Christ’s messianic claim-- since even Orthodox Jews within Israel have spoken out against the persecution of the Christian minority within Palestine.

But there are some bad things happening to Christians (and Muslims) there. Quite frankly, non-Jews within Israel face a labyrinth of official discrimination that works to oppress them and ultimately vex them into leaving.

Dr. Israel Shahk, a holocaust survivor from Belsen camp, has spoken out against this kind of discrimination. Although his opinions are not liked, he is – as a resisdent of Israel since 1945, long-time human rights activist, and seasoned student of Jewish Scriptures and Tradition – a vocal protestor from within Judaism against the happenings going on within Israel against non-Jews.

Do you want me to go into detail about what’s been happening within Israel over the last several decades?
 
that site is so old you cant even order the dang magazine Mr ex nillio-

They claim to be experts on new spiritual trends mr ex nillio-

Islam sadly, is not new. Nor is Judaism.

What denomination prints this magazine?

That looks like a magazine I could use if I ran out of tp in the bathroom frankly. No , not even good enough for that.

salam mr ex nillio
I see.

Well they seem to quote quite a few Catholic sources, such as G.K. Chesterson’s writings or Wilhelm Schmidt for example-- and they seem to keep them in the proper context of what Chesterson and Schmidt actually meant when they said what they said.

But, nonetheless, use it for toilet paper if you wish.
 
I am sorry to be vauge.

I am looking for examples of Jewish people putting Jewish people that convert to another faith to death.

I am not talking about early Christians.

I am talking about someone who never was a Christian - and a Jew all their life.

Nice try mr ex nillio
 
mr ex nillio-

When did Jewish people put apostates to death?
Assuming this was more than a pre-arranged marriage which involved sex at an early age, when did I claim that this was a facet of Islam that we as Catholics should admire? :confused:
 
Shure sounded confusing after your response to exoflare in that quote
 
I am sorry to be vauge.

I am looking for examples of Jewish people putting Jewish people that convert to another faith to death.

I am not talking about early Christians.

I am talking about someone who never was a Christian - and a Jew all their life.

Nice try mr ex nillio
But I have provided examples of Jewish people putting Jewish people that convert to another faith to death.

Furthermore, I am showing a returning trend within the ‘secular’ Jewish authorites within Israel-- something which you’ve dismissed out of hand without even listening to.

But see, that’s exactly what I expected though. I try to put a lot of work into explaining something clearly-- and people just dismiss it with several lines.

Carry one Damascus. If you wish to hate Muslims, that’s your choice-- not mine. I’m only stressing that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.

Apparently no one really wants to listen though.
 
Shure sounded confusing after your response to exoflare in that quote
So you’re saying that I’m in favor of people having sex with children?

No. I am not in favor of people having sex with children

I guess you’re not really listening to anything I’m saying at this point.
 
Maybe you could fix your quotes before I respond.
What did you not say that is in the quotes? PM me since you are being so cryptic or answer the questions please

When do Jews kill Jews that convert to another faith and I am not talking about Christianity here!

They dont. that is why you can not nor will you answer that.
 
So you’re saying that I’m in favor of people having sex with children?

No. I am not in favor of people having sex with children

I guess you’re not really listening to anything I’m saying at this point.
You bore false witness a second time now, I am not sure what to make of that.
 
You bore false witness a second time now, I am not sure what to make of that.
I’m trying to reasonbly discuss this topic without leaning into prejudice, so I’m not sure what to say to you Dasmascus.

Please reconsider our conversation so far…
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Damascus:
Shure sounded confusing after your response to exoflare in that quote.
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
So you’re saying that I’m in favor of people having sex with children?

No. I am not in favor of people having sex with children

I guess you’re not really listening to anything I’m saying at this point.
Now maybe I’ve quoted something incorrectly here.
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Damascus:
mr ex nillio-

When did Jewish people put apostates to death?
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Damascus:
Assuming this was more than a pre-arranged marriage which involved sex at an early age, when did I claim that this was a facet of Islam that we as Catholics should admire? :confused:
Hmmm.

I didn’t notice that before. I must have clicked the wrong post without looking at what was quoted because it appears that I did quote something wrong here.

My apologies Damascus. I clicked on your Today 6:36 am post instead of your Today 6:33 am post

The response should have looked like this…
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Damascus:
What Jewish prophet had a six year old wife?

Mr ex nillio?
To this post was meant to be the following reply…
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
Assuming this was more than a pre-arranged marriage which involved sex at an early age, when did I claim that this was a facet of Islam that we as Catholics should admire? :confused:
Now, for the record, notwithstanding my own mistake when quoting, my point here still stands.

I’m not mixing truth with falsehood.

I’m trying to take a clear and concise look at the claims presented by Islam and their detractors in order to discern truth from falsehood.

To the extent that Islam actually theologically keeps in-line with Catholic teachings, I will applaud them.

To the extent that Islam actually theologically separates itself with Catholic teachings, I will correct them.

But the same holds true, to the extent that false claims are made against them, for Islam’s detractors too.

I’m not sure what else I can say to my Catholic brothers in Christ here. The idea that Islamic is intrinsically evil, from a Catholic standpoint, is wrong. Because, quite frankly, if the Islamic faith is indeed intrinsically evil, then we as Catholics would have no right before God to even acknowledge any dialogue with them about matters of faith at all.

Most certainly, we could not, in good conscience, publish anything like this within our very own Catechism…
841:
The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”[330]
 
For the record, Damascus, I was hoping that you would’ve editted your post to look more like this…

Mr. Ex Nihilo:
But I have provided examples of Jewish people putting Jewish people that convert to another faith to death.
Could you stop that? I told you I am not talking about Christians here.

Nice try. Jews that kill Jews for converting to another faith that were never Christian.
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
Furthermore, I am showing a returning trend within the ‘secular’ Jewish authorites within Israel-- something which you’ve dismissed out of hand without even listening to.
I “dismiss it” because that is not my largest concern and I may agree but I am not dismissing it just because I dont say “that is great!”
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
But see, that’s exactly what I expected though. I try to put a lot of work into explaining something clearly-- and people just dismiss it with a several lines.
spend less time doing it and get to the point- just a suggestion.
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
Carry one Damascus. If you wish to hate Muslims, that your choice-- not mine. I’m only stressing that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
Where is my hate for Muslims? You just bore false witness against me.

I cant believe it. Like I am going to want to hear you now!
Mr. Ex Nihilo:
Apparently no one really wants to listen though.
This would’ve made a lot less work for me if you could’ve taken the time to quote it like this.

If I did not want to listen I would not ask you questions you avoid answering.

Instead, based on the way you quoted it before, when I clicked on the reply button, your post appeared like this…
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Damascus:
If I did not want to listen I would not ask you questions you avoid answering.
…and, although I did it this time to show you what I meant because I think this dicussion is important, I simply can’t spend too much time going back and forth like this to cut and paste and then edit the posts that are sent to me.

I do have a family and other obligations here.
 
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