Muhammed predicted the end of Islam.

[Reuben_J]

Just a thought in response to the title of this thread.

By his death and ressurection, Jesus conquered sin and death. By his death he has won us the victory. There is no turning back; it is a foregone conclusion that the Lord has the world in his hands. Whether all people on this earth become Christians or not is not the issue. The only certainty is that he will come again to judge the livings and the deads. Believers in him will be saved and unbelievers will be separated like the goats being separated from the sheeps. The sheeps will live forever and ever with him in heaven, and the goats will belong to the Evil one in hell.

This is the truth and the Devil knows this. What the Devil is doing now until judgment time is to take as many as he can with him; but when the time of harvest come he will not have a chance anymore.

If the OP is telling us that other false religions or false prophets know the end for them will come, it is no surprise, because Satan knows this fact. Only that the victory belongs to the Lord and for the believers in Jesus Christ - the Savior and King of all.

 

[Sam_777]

It would not help you unless you support the Hadith by verses of the Quran.

And who said that, you with your own version of Islam!, why don’t you create a sect called “Planten Sect” and enforce your ideas, at the end Alahmadia sect and the Quranics sect are not better than you.

The stone or Capstone is also called the corner stone. It is in Makkah in the corner of Ka’abah. which is from the time of Abraham and Jesus knew all about it.

That’s a non sense, why your are trying to alter the truth!!!

 

[Sam_777]

If the OP is telling us that other false religions or false prophets know the end for them will come, it is no surprise, because Satan knows this fact. Only that the victory belongs to the Lord and for the believers in Jesus Christ - the Savior and King of all.

:aok: well said Reuben.

 

[planten]

And who said that, you with your own version of Islam!, why don’t you create a sect called “Planten Sect” and enforce your ideas, at the end Alahmadia sect and the Quranics sect are not better than you.

Sam, am I disturbing you in any way?

That’s a non sense, why your are trying to alter the truth!!!

** It means that you can pass judgement. But your Jesus told you not to do that. Are you a christian, follower of Jesus or a follower of your own bad desires?**

Sam, your poat #16,: My point is why Muhammed predicted that end if his religion was truly from God, logically shouldn’t that indicates that he knew that its man made and not from the true God?,

**Sam, that was the correct thing to do. That was a prophesy from Muhammad. He said " Muslims in later times will follow in the footsteps of the earlier nations, the Jews and the Christians."

And because the Jews and Christians were misled, the Muslims will also go astray. That is what is happening in these days. The words of the prophet Muhammad are 100% true.

It is not the fault of Islam. It is the fault of the followers ( name sake Muslims).**

 

[PerryJ]

Sam, am I disturbing you in any way?

** It means that you can pass judgement. But your Jesus told you not to do that. Are you a christian, follower of Jesus or a follower of your own bad desires?**

**Sam, that was the correct thing to do. That was a prophesy from Muhammad. He said " Muslims in later times will follow in the footsteps of the earlier nations, the Jews and the Christians."

And because the Jews and Christians were misled, the Muslims will also go astray. That is what is happening in these days. The words of the prophet Muhammad are 100% true.

It is not the fault of Islam. It is the fault of the followers ( name sake Muslims).**

I was always curious how Muslim’s rationalize Muhammed’s own admission that he was fooled by the Devil. How do you know when he was being fooled and when he wasn’t?

Do you truly face towards Mecca? I was under the impression that you faced Mecca because Muhammed was rejected by both Christians and the Jewish. Originally you faced Jerusalem. This rejection is also why he hated other nations so much and became a conqueror.

If Muhammed was a great Prophet of God why is he a conqueror? God doesn’t need to conquer anything as he created it and can do as he pleases. Why create Muhammed to kill others?

How does one reconcile that all of the Mid East was Christian and it took persecutions to convert the middle east to muslim thought? Why would God need a man to torture and persecute to bring one to belief?

Why do Muslim’s fear Christianity? The persecution is world wide.

I am also curious how one reonciles the fact that he was using interwining pagan beliefs with Christianity. His thought was redefined several times. If he was a great prophet why did he appear to change his mind? (Obviously when the Devil was tricking him that would occur; however, what about the other times.) God is the one, immovable, one thought one action. Yet Muhammaed does not show this consistent thought? Why?

 

[PerryJ]

I forgot one question. Do Muslims claim that the Quran is a literal inspiration from God; word by word and letter by letter.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I was always curious how Muslim’s rationalize Muhammed’s

You may be a Christian Protestant, Catholic, Jew, an atheist or an agnostic; or you may belong to any of many different religious denominations existing in today’s world. You might even be a coummunist or believe in man’s democracy as the rule on earth.

Whoever you are and whatever ideological or political beliefs, social habits you may hold, there is no doubt -

You Must Know This MAN - MUHAMMAD (peace be upon him).

prophetofislam.com/goodies.html

islamtomorrow.com/muhammad/

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/Peace

I forgot one question. Do Muslims claim that the Quran is a literal inspiration from God; word by word and letter by letter.

Quran is the revelation came to the last Prophet (p) through Angel Gabriel/ Jibril (p) . Each word came from God Almighty. Not a single word was edited/ deleted/ added. Since the beginning Muslims recite Quranic verses from memory in daily prayers. We believe that for uttering each letter , we will be rewarded .

some info:

More than 10 million people living today (mostly non-Arabs) have memorized the Quran in the Arabic language on earth today

islamtomorrow.com/quran/

 

[Anthony1306]

Pax Vobiscum/Peace be with you.

Interesting thread, everyone.

I could question if Jesus predicted the end of Christianity also…

“But when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?” -Luke 18:8

As a Roman Catholic, I see this as a personal challenge to not be seduced by the world and to cling with my heart, mind and soul upon our Lord Jesus Christ, and upon the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church He divinely founded.

Planten writing to Sam777 It would not help you unless you support the Hadith by verses of the Quran.

Planten, in a similar way, Catholics believe in order to understand the Bible one has to also support Scripture with Tradition

In the Second Vatican Council’s document on divine revelation, Dei Verbum (Latin: “The Word of God”), the relationship between Tradition and Scripture is explained: "Hence there exists a close connection and communication between sacred Tradition and sacred Scripture. For both of them, flowing from the same divine wellspring, in a certain way merge into a unity and tend toward the same end.

For sacred Scripture is the word of God inasmuch as it is consigned to writing under the inspiration of the divine Spirit.

To the successors of the apostles, sacred Tradition hands on in its full purity God’s word, which was entrusted to the apostles by Christ the Lord and the Holy Spirit.

Jesus came to redeem and save us - not to write or even deliver a sacred book. Jesus is the book. He is the Word.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was in the beginning with God.” -John 1:1-2

Planten, “the parable of the wicked tenants Matt. 21:33-46” which you so spectacularly misinterpret should be understood like this:

Jesus compares Israel to a choice vineyard, specially fenced, with a watch tower, where a keeper is on the look-out to protect it from thieves and foxes. God spares nothing to cultivate and fill this vineyard! It is in the charge of tenant farmers.

The householder is God and the vineyard is Israel. (Is 5:3-5; Jer 2:21; Joel 1:7)
The tenants to whom God has given the care of His people are the priests, scribes and elders.
The owner’s absence clearly demonstrates God really did entrust Israel to its leaders - hence their responsibility and the account He demands of them.

Now the owner sent servants to collect the fruit of the vineyard owing unto him. This is the mission of the prophets.

The second dispatch of servants to claim what is owing met the same fate as the first set of servants - refers to how God’s prophets were mistreated by the kings and priests of Israel. (Mt.23:37; Acts 7:42; Heb 11:36-38)

Finally God sends His Son thinking they would naturally have more respect for him. You can see the difference between Jesus - the Son of God and the Prophets - whom were but servants! The Son, the parable expresses the singular, transcendental sonship - which expresses the divinity of Jesus Christ.

Now the malicious purpose of the tenants in murdering the Son and heir is to keep the inheritance for themselves is the madness of the leaders in expecting to become the undisputed masters of Israel by putting Christ to the death (Mt.12:14; 26:4) - throwing the Son out of the vineyard to kill him - a reference to the crucifixion of Christ that took place outside the walls of Jerusalem.

Jesus then prophesises the punishment God will inflict upon these evil-doers: death and renting the vineyard to others.

St Peter later repeats this to the Sanhedrin

“this is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner” - (Acts 4:11; 1 Pet 2:4)

This cornerstone is Jesus of Nazareth that was rejected by the architects of Israel who build up and rule the people without Him. Their unfaithfulness results in the Kingdom of God being turned over to another people, the Gentiles, who WILL give God the fruit He expects His vineyard to yield.

Christians of all ages should see this parable as exhorting them to build faithfully upon Christ and make sure they do not fall into the sin of this Jewish generation. The Church, with Christ as its cornerstone is truely assured until the end of time itself.

Planten: understand that Jesus did not write anything. He is the Living Word, Our Lord and God, that always existed.

So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old and you have seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, "Amen, amen, I say to you, before Abraham came to be, I AM."

Ad majorem Dei gloriam / For the greater glory of God.

Anthony

 

[Anthony1306]

Pax Vobiscum/Peace be with you.

Muslim Woman: Thank you, I do believe we all agree and know that Muhammed is a man.* Now if we would all just agree that Jesus Christ is Our Lord and God…*.

Christ’s Divinity

“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name will be called ‘Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace’” (Is. 9:6).

“Simon Peter replied, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ And Jesus answered him, ‘Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven’” (Matt. 16:16-17).

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1).

"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am” (John 8:58).

“‘I and the Father are one’” (John 10:30).

“For in him [Christ] the whole fulness of deity dwells bodily” (Col. 2:9).

“In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets; but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature, upholding the universe by his word of power . . .” (Heb. 1:1-3).

"But of the Son he says, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom. . . . And, “Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning, and the heavens are the work of thy hands.” (Heb. 1:8, 10)

Ad majorem Dei gloriam / For the greater glory of God.

Anthony

 

[swariffin]

Why quote someone whose writings you’ve not read, and whose mathematics you cannot follow, to justify a self-proclaimed prophet?

God gives logic and mind to all human, brother. I have found my self that the logic of our Muslim friends is rather strange to me. What I am looking for, is their reasoning, which I have not yet find from them. You are correct that I don’t believe their holybook, but for objectivity reason, we must at least give an opportunity for a hearing, right?

 

[swariffin]

More than 10 million people living today (mostly non-Arabs) have memorized the Quran in the Arabic language on earth today

islamtomorrow.com/quran/

The problem is they don’t understand the meaning.

 

[planten]

The problem is they don’t understand the meaning.

** Dear swariffin, that memorisation of whole Quran is a daunting task and it is not without value. Most of them understand the meaning too. The others who do not understand will do so soon.

You know that every Muslim child is placed in a school for just reading the Arabic alphabet and just reading the Quran, without understanding anything at all. That helps in the end. Every one can read the original words sent from Allah, (without understanding their meaning). No harm. They have to recie the Quran in every prayer five or more times a day. So it helps very much.

Later they all can learn the meaning of the verses in their own language too. There is no harm. A Haafiz (the one who has memorised the whole Quran by heart) is very useful to us all. But you may not understand these things.

I hope you will agree that reading without understanding is also the first step in the learning. I am sure you had learnt the alphabet and few words of English without understanding them in the beginning.beginning**

 

[PerryJ]

Salaam/Peace

Quran is the revelation came to the last Prophet (p) through Angel Gabriel/ Jibril (p) . Each word came from God Almighty. Not a single word was edited/ deleted/ added. Since the beginning Muslims recite Quranic verses from memory in daily prayers. We believe that for uttering each letter , we will be rewarded .

some info:

More than 10 million people living today (mostly non-Arabs) have memorized the Quran in the Arabic language on earth today

islamtomorrow.com/quran/

I do not know; however, I heard their are contradictions in the Quran. Can you explain a couple of examples for me. I do not understand contradiction if it is the exact word of God.

4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans, an obvious contradiction.

17:1 Mohammad visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa. The problem is that there was no Masjid Al-Aqsa nor any other masjid during the life of Mohammad since Islam entered Palestine after Omar Bin El Khattab conquered Palestine after the death of the prophet. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built almost sixty years after the death of Mohammad by Marwan bin Abdelmalik

 

[planten]

I do not know; however, I heard their are contradictions in the Quran. Can you explain a couple of examples for me. I do not understand contradiction if it is the exact word of God.

4: 78, 79. Verse 78 says that all actions good or evil come from God while the verse 79 says that good comes from God while evil comes from humans, an obvious contradiction.

Dear PJ, these verses may relate to pre-destination. It is advised not to discuss this subject. It has no real answer. If you have any idea about free will and complete capability of a person over all his deeds then please let me know.
However, I may not confront you or debate with you on that subject. But let us try.

17:1 Mohammad visited Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa. The problem is that there was no Masjid Al-Aqsa nor any other masjid during the life of Mohammad since Islam entered Palestine after Omar Bin El Khattab conquered Palestine after the death of the prophet. Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa was built almost sixty years after the death of Mohammad by Marwan bin Abdelmalik

** Muhammad visited Masjid Al-Aqsa. But that was a vision. And visions are subject to interpretations. What one may see in the vision may have different meaning. Whatever he saw was true /correct and may have some good meaning. Every one cannot decode those meanings. I can follow up this subject with a good example if required.**

 

[PerryJ]

Dear PJ, these verses may relate to pre-destination. It is advised not to discuss this subject. It has no real answer. If you have any idea about free will and complete capability of a person over all his deeds then please let me know.
However, I may not confront you or debate with you on that subject. But let us try.

I am not looking for a debate.

I am now confused. Verses from God can not be discussed. Why are they in the Quran if they should not be discussed?

How can the one God with one voice and one will have no real answer? If their is no real answer why would God reveal it yet hide it?

It does bring up an interesting point. Do you believe in predestination?

 

[PerryJ]

** Muhammad visited Masjid Al-Aqsa. But that was a vision. And visions are subject to interpretations. What one may see in the vision may have different meaning. Whatever he saw was true /correct and may have some good meaning. Every one cannot decode those meanings. I can follow up this subject with a good example if required.**

A vision. This leads me to other historical statements.

Do you believe in the bible?

The Bible account says God created all in six days (see Genesis 1:1 - 2:2). The Quran, however, has a real problem here as Surah 41:9, 10, 12 have a total of eight days of creation (4+2+2=8) Meanwhile, Surah 10:3 gives the total number of days of creation as six. Is this not self-contradiction of the word of God that can not contradict.

According to the Quran (Surah 20:90-100)a Samaritan helped the Israelites build the golden calf, and it mooed after coming out of the fire. The Samaritans did not exist as a people until at least 1000 years after the time of the Moses and the Israelite exodus from Egypt. This doesn’t appear to be a vision. Can you explain?

According to the Quran (Surah 9:30) the Jews believe that Ezra is the Son of God - the Messiah. The Jewish faith has never believed this? How can the word contradict? It is thought that Mohammed often received distorted facts concerning religions as he was in the Arab pennisula; however, as this is in infallible word of God how can it be in error?

According to the Quran (Surah 18:89-98) Alexander the Great was a devout Muslim and lived to a ripe old age. Historical records however show that Alexander the Great died young at 33 years of age (b. 356 B.C. - d. 323 B.C.), and believed he was divine, forcing others to recognize him as such. In India on the Hyphasis River (now Beas) Alexander erected twelve altars to twelve Olympian gods. Historical records show that Alexander was not a muslim. He existed before the Muslim religion was even thought of. How can this be?

I do not understand how the infallible word of the Quaran can have errors concerning history?

 

[narrowpath]

Salaam/Peace

Quran is the revelation came to the last Prophet (p) through Angel Gabriel/ Jibril (p) . Each word came from God Almighty. Not a single word was edited/ deleted/ added. Since the beginning Muslims recite Quranic verses from memory in daily prayers. We believe that for uttering each letter , we will be rewarded .

some info:

More than 10 million people living today (mostly non-Arabs) have memorized the Quran in the Arabic language on earth today

islamtomorrow.com/quran/

But is the Quran to be taken literaly, or is there symbolism in it? Say, the images of hell or paradise.

 

[Sam_777]

Sam, am I disturbing you in any way?

As long as you don’t recognize hadith you would, because that is not the true Islam and you know that, I just want to say to you if you think there are many nasty things in hadith then instead of denying them why don’t you search for the truth in another religion!.

 

[inJESUS]

I am not looking for a debate.

I am now confused. Verses from God can not be discussed. Why are they in the Quran if they should not be discussed?

the Quran says there are verses in the Quran whose meaning is only understood by Allah.

He it is Who has sent down to thee the Book: In it are verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning); they are the foundation of the Book: others are allegorical. But those in whose hearts is perversity follow the part thereof that is allegorical, seeking discord, and searching for its hidden meanings, **but no one knows its hidden meanings except Allah. **.

Am not sure if Muslims know what exact verses this aya mean.