Muhammed suppose to marry Virgin Mary in paradise.

[HickmanJosh]

** H J, muslims do not say Jesus ran away from death. They suggest that God saved him by takinghim away by breaking the roof of the prison (somehow). The worst story that is being circulated in some muslim cicles is that not only did God take Jesus away from the cell but God caught some other person, made his face look exactly like Jesus and put that man in place of Jesus in the cell.

The soldiers and the Jews crucified that man instead of Jesus and so Jesus was saved from death on the cross. These are real false stories being circulated amongst the muslims. The christians are taking interest intehse stories and they try to impose these things on Muslims.But that is the worst false story, the most foolish suggestion by some one.

So we have to seek out what happened to Jesus on the cross or before the cross?? There is definite belief amongst the Muslims that Jesus was not crucified, meaning that the act of crucifixion was not completed, meaning that he was put on the cross but he did not die on the cross. When he was brought down, he was still alive but had fainted and appeared to be dead. He miraculously survived the incident of the cross and God did it for him.

If you need more detail, it can be provided.

That was the point of view of some Muslims. The christians believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the sinners. Later he got up which is called resurrection. But if he did not die, there is no resurrection. No need of resurrection. It would simply be reviving.

**

So your saying two thousand years of church teaching is false? that thousands of martyrs have died in vain? That the very basis for the Christian religion is false?

Jesus did not want to be crucified but the night before he was crucified he prayed and understood it was Gods will for him to lay down his life for us. He died on the cross, He died and three days later he rose again, He walked around on earth for forty days after the Resurrection before he ascended. This is in the bible, all four Gospels and the letters of Paul and Acts of the Apostles.

Do you really think a prophet of God would let someone suffer and die in there place?

HickmanJosh

 

[planten]

So your saying two thousand years of church teaching is false? that thousands of martyrs have died in vain? That the very basis for the Christian religion is false?

Jesus did not want to be crucified but the night before he was crucified he prayed and understood it was Gods will for him to lay down his life for us. He died on the cross, He died and three days later he rose again, He walked around on earth for forty days after the Resurrection before he ascended. This is in the bible, all four Gospels and the letters of Paul and Acts of the Apostles.

Do you really think a prophet of God would let someone suffer and die in there place?

HickmanJosh

**The church belief is what you have written. You know that dying on the cross is a cursed death. Do you know that?? Then do you believe that Jesus was a cursed person? And do you know the meaning of curse too??

We cannot sat that church is wrong. It has its own news and interpretations of the bible.

I had told you what Islam teaches. Jesus prayed to his God in the garden to save him from the cursed death on the cross which his enemies had planned for him. Quran says that his prayer was accepted and he was told before time that he will not die on the cross. There is a hint about that is the bibleNT too, that he will be saved.

You know the church version and I have told you the Quran version. The Quran says that Jesus was not Crucified ( meaning was not killed on the cross). So you can make judgment and follow what you like. I cannot delve more into this subject. The catholics do not like (tolerate) such things. But it is the truth as mentioned in the Quran.

Our hadith also says that Jesus lived a life of 120 years. Bible is telling only upto 33 years of Jesus life. Hadith tells us that he lived for 120 good years of happy life.

This is all off topic. If this matter is required to be discussed as to what happened to Jesus after arrest, then start a new thread and give us all the permission to present the Islamic view freely. I am sure that Catholics would not like to read and know the truth proved from BibleOt, BibleNT, Quran and Hadith.

**

 

[seraphime2008]

You know the church version and I have told you the Quran version. The Quran says that Jesus was not Crucified ( meaning was not killed on the cross). So you can make judgment and follow what you like. I cannot delve more into this subject. The catholics do not like (tolerate) such things. But it is the truth as mentioned in the Quran.

The Koran has to prove itself to really be words of God. And none had ever proved it but some Muslims, the companion of Muhammad that suddenly gain power and money, had to keep the belief that Koran is the truth while all its teachings or contents sound more like concoctions of different belief, even from the heretic Christians around at that time. While Uthman had all the copies of Koran burnt, it only proves that the copy that you claim now as the real Koran could be a fake!!

And you having no back up for this illusion you and your religion created, keep on making another illusions to justify the first illusions that you believe.

 

[HickmanJosh]

**The church belief is what you have written. You know that dying on the cross is a cursed death. Do you know that?? Then do you believe that Jesus was a cursed person? And do you know the meaning of curse too??
**

How is dieing on the cross a cursed death? Do you think God would let a curse come apon on of his Prophets?

**
We cannot sat that church is wrong. It has its own news and interpretations of the bible.
**

**
I had told you what Islam teaches. Jesus prayed to his God in the garden to save him from the cursed death on the cross which his enemies had planned for him. Quran says that his prayer was accepted and he was told before time that he will not die on the cross. There is a hint about that is the bibleNT too, that he will be saved.
**

Don’t we have the same God just different interpretations? Where are the hints he would be saved?

**
You know the church version and I have told you the Quran version. The Quran says that Jesus was not Crucified ( meaning was not killed on the cross). So you can make judgment and follow what you like. I cannot delve more into this subject. The catholics do not like (tolerate) such things. But it is the truth as mentioned in the Quran.
**

Well Catholics think the truth is in the Bible so… Two Holy Books with two totaly different opinions on one thing.

**
Our hadith also says that Jesus lived a life of 120 years. Bible is telling only upto 33 years of Jesus life. Hadith tells us that he lived for 120 good years of happy life.
**

The Bible Only Goes up to his 33 year because that’s when He ascended into heaven. Would the Apostles really let Jesus’s Next 90 years go unwritten?

**
This is all off topic. If this matter is required to be discussed as to what happened to Jesus after arrest, then start a new thread and give us all the permission to present the Islamic view freely. I am sure that Catholics would not like to read and know the truth proved from BibleOt, BibleNT, Quran and Hadith.
**

Yes we are getting off topic. We love to hear the truth from the first two, but science we don’t believe Mohamed was a prophet we can’t very well accept the Quran and Hadith as truth. sorry.

Peace

HickmanJosh

 

[tonyfran]

** H J, muslims do not say Jesus ran away from death. They suggest that God saved him by takinghim away by breaking the roof of the prison (somehow). The worst story that is being circulated in some muslim cicles is that not only did God take Jesus away from the cell but God caught some other person, made his face look exactly like Jesus and put that man in place of Jesus in the cell.

The soldiers and the Jews crucified that man instead of Jesus and so Jesus was saved from death on the cross. These are real false stories being circulated amongst the muslims. The christians are taking interest intehse stories and they try to impose these things on Muslims.But that is the worst false story, the most foolish suggestion by some one.

So we have to seek out what happened to Jesus on the cross or before the cross?? There is definite belief amongst the Muslims that Jesus was not crucified, meaning that the act of crucifixion was not completed, meaning that he was put on the cross but he did not die on the cross. When he was brought down, he was still alive but had fainted and appeared to be dead. He miraculously survived the incident of the cross and God did it for him.

If you need more detail, it can be provided.

That was the point of view of some Muslims. The christians believe that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the sinners. Later he got up which is called resurrection. But if he did not die, there is no resurrection. No need of resurrection. It would simply be reviving.

**

Bringing back to life from death was not such a great miracle to the Jews or Jesus’ desciples, because Jesus had done it earlier on Lazar, and some other prophets had done it before. But in Jesus, case, he himself had predicted that he would rise on the third day, and nobody else (another holy man or prophet) was involved.
The Romans had very elaborate measures to ensure that the person had died before taking him off the cross. They used to break the legs of the victim, to prevent him from breathing, and quicken the death. But in Jesus’case they did not break His legs, because they noticed that his blood had already curdled - which happens only after one is dead.

If Jesus had only woken up from a coma, his disciples, and even I would not have believed that Jesus was GOD, and continued to follow Him and His teachings even risking their lives.

 

[Scardinoz]

**The church belief is what you have written. You know that dying on the cross is a cursed death. Do you know that?? Then do you believe that Jesus was a cursed person? And do you know the meaning of curse too??

We cannot sat that church is wrong. It has its own news and interpretations of the bible.

I had told you what Islam teaches. Jesus prayed to his God in the garden to save him from the cursed death on the cross which his enemies had planned for him. Quran says that his prayer was accepted and he was told before time that he will not die on the cross. There is a hint about that is the bibleNT too, that he will be saved.

You know the church version and I have told you the Quran version. The Quran says that Jesus was not Crucified ( meaning was not killed on the cross). So you can make judgment and follow what you like. I cannot delve more into this subject. The catholics do not like (tolerate) such things. But it is the truth as mentioned in the Quran.

Our hadith also says that Jesus lived a life of 120 years. Bible is telling only upto 33 years of Jesus life. Hadith tells us that he lived for 120 good years of happy life.

This is all off topic. If this matter is required to be discussed as to what happened to Jesus after arrest, then start a new thread and give us all the permission to present the Islamic view freely. I am sure that Catholics would not like to read and know the truth proved from BibleOt, BibleNT, Quran and Hadith.

**

If what you say is true, it is very strange that all twelve apostles and all the other followers lived in constant torture and persecution just so that they could collectively lie about the death, resurrection, and ascension of a man who was still very much alive - all the while gaining no earthly pleasures for it and getting thousands of people to believe such an easily disproven idea. And what did Jesus do about their lies? For 90 years he sat back and listened to their lies?

Also, after following Jesus and his teachings for so long, all the apostles and all of the other follwers decided to pervert the truth and spread a lie? What reward did they expect after death? Did they really embrace the tortures of Hell for absolutely no reward?

It would be much easier to believe that only one man made the decision to lie about something abstract and not easily disproven so that he could get women, gold, followers who would do anything to please him, and complete unquestioned control over a population.

Next, shall we compare the life of Muhammed and the life of Jesus?

 

[tonyfran]

If what you say is true, it is very strange that all twelve apostles and all the other followers lived in constant torture and persecution just so that they could collectively lie about the death, resurrection, and ascension of a man who was still very much alive - all the while gaining no earthly pleasures for it and getting thousands of people to believe such an easily disproven idea. And what did Jesus do about their lies? For 90 years he sat back and listened to their lies?

Also, after following Jesus and his teachings for so long, all the apostles and all of the other follwers decided to pervert the truth and spread a lie? What reward did they expect after death? Did they really embrace the tortures of Hell for absolutely no reward?

It would be much easier to believe that only one man made the decision to lie about something abstract and not easily disproven so that he could get women, gold, followers who would do anything to please him, and complete unquestioned control over a population.

Also, elsewhere somebody had posted a quotation fro quran in which God said that Jesus would die, before he was taken up into heaven. If afterwards, God changed his words, what kind of God is referred in the quran- Does not Allah know what is going to happen in the future?
Next, shall we compare the life of Muhammed and the life of Jesus?

 

[jakasaki]

~ snip ~ …

Next, shall we compare the life of Muhammed and the life of Jesus?

We should compare the life of mohamad and the life of Jesus in a new thread.

Jesus goodness and love outweighs mohamad badness and hate.

 

[planten]

How is dieing on the cross a cursed death? Do you think God would let a curse come apon on of his Prophets?

** I never believe any prophet of God is cursed person. I do not believe that jesus was cursed person. That is why I do not believe that he died on the cross.

You please get help from some one about the OT saying “Any one who is put on the wood and die is a cursed person”. I can also find the reference for you.But some Catholic can help you more quickly.**

Don’t we have the same God just different interpretations? Where are the hints he would be saved?

** In the Quran, it is clearly written that “the enemies of Jesus planned (To kill Jesus on the cross). Allah also planned. And Allah (God) is the best of all planners” (Quran 3:54, But read from verse 3:52 onwards.)

In the bibleNT, it is written that Jesus prayed to his God, earnestly in the garden.to avoid the cup. It is also written that an angel was strengthening him. The strengthening of the angel is to help Jesus and to give him some good news of the acceptance of his prayer. Angel cannot strengthen Jesus against his will. That proves that when Jesus prayed to his God, an angel arrived to console him and to assure him about his prayer, not against his prayer.**

Well Catholics think the truth is in the Bible so… Two Holy Books with two totaly different opinions on one thing.

** That is true. Two books from same God, differing very much on the same point. Only one of them can be right. Catholics believe that truth is in the bible. That is right. They have come a long way (2000 years.) They do not have any original bible. there are transaltions upon translations, changes being made daily in the words of the bible.

The Quran is original, at least in the text. The interpretation can vary. But we can return to the original words to look for any mistakes.**.

The Bible Only Goes up to his 33 year because that’s when He ascended into heaven. Would the Apostles really let Jesus’s Next 90 years go unwritten?

**Jesus went away. He was not with the disciples. He was a condemned (dead) man, never to be seen in public. Otherwise it would have harmed many persons. So Jesus moved carefully in the area. he met his disciples and discussed things with them.

The idea of ascention was invented so that nobody would go looking for him. Otherwise he could be caught again. That was a very wise step to say that he had gone up to God.

There can be many problems in Jesus going up into the sky. We need to know what went up. The body or the soul or both body and soul. If the soul went up then we need to know where is the body… Such are the problems about ascention. Don’t mind please. We are only discussing.

**.

Yes we are getting off topic. We love to hear the truth from the first two, but science we don’t believe Mohamed was a prophet we can’t very well accept the Quran and Hadith as truth. sorry.

Peace

HickmanJosh

Peace with you, HickmanJosh. You cannot discuss the subject. That makes it easy for us to close it here. Thanks..

 

[HickmanJosh]

** i never believe any prophet of god is cursed person. I do not believe that jesus was cursed person. That is why i do not believe that he died on the cross.

You please get help from some one about the ot saying “any one who is put on the wood and die is a cursed person”. I can also find the reference for you.but some catholic can help you more quickly.**

When the OT was written crusifiction wasn’t even invented yet. They where probably referring to human sacrifice.

** in the quran, it is clearly written that “the enemies of jesus planned (to kill jesus on the cross). Allah also planned. And allah (god) is the best of all planners” (quran 3:54, but read from verse 3:52 onwards.)

in the biblent, it is written that jesus prayed to his god, earnestly in the garden.to avoid the cup. It is also written that an angel was strengthening him. The strengthening of the angel is to help jesus and to give him some good news of the acceptance of his prayer. Angel cannot strengthen jesus against his will. That proves that when jesus prayed to his god, an angel arrived to console him and to assure him about his prayer, not against his prayer.**

He prayed “if it is your will then let this cup of poison pass from me.” He said he didn’t want it but that he was willing to do whatever God asked of him. So the angle gave him the strength to Do what had to be done.

** that is true. Two books from same god, differing very much on the same point. Only one of them can be right. Catholics believe that truth is in the bible. That is right. They have come a long way (2000 years.) they do not have any original bible. There are transaltions upon translations, changes being made daily in the words of the bible.

The quran is original, at least in the text. The interpretation can vary. But we can return to the original words to look for any mistakes.**

.

The core of the Bible is the same, the massages are unchanged from there original form. Some things might have been lost in translation but The Church has teams of people studding the Bible and making sure everything is as it should be.

**Jesus went away. He was not with the disciples. He was a condemned (dead) man, never to be seen in public. Otherwise it would have harmed many persons. So Jesus moved carefully in the area. He met his disciples and discussed things with them.

The idea of ascention was invented so that nobody would go looking for him. Otherwise he could be caught again. That was a very wise step to say that he had gone up to god.

There can be many problems in jesus going up into the sky. We need to know what went up. The body or the soul or both body and soul. If the soul went up then we need to know where is the body… Such are the problems about ascention. Don’t mind please. We are only discussing.
**

The Bible says he was taken up body and soul, the apostles witnessed it.

peace with you, hickmanjosh. You cannot discuss the subject. That makes it easy for us to close it here. Thanks..

There is always room for discussion.

Peace

HickmanJosh

 

[matahari]

How is dieing on the cross a cursed death? Do you think God would let a curse come apon on of his Prophets?

---

I believe somewhere in the OT it does say “Cursed is he who dies on a tree” Could find it with a concordance.
But Jesus took the curse so that we might have the Blessing.
If you read Psalm 21 which starts with …
“My God My God why have you forsaken me”
Jesus, our sin bearer experienced seperation from God.
V.25 says For he has not spurned nor disdained the wretched man in his misery, nor did he turn his face away from him
V30 And to him my soul shall live"
Read the whole psalm , it ends up on the note of victory.

In some Muslim lands there is a public holiday to celebrate the Ascension of Mahommed…

 

[Trajik]

Hello,

Sorry to jump in here but I had another question in regards to this Topic:

I was looking at the references given by the person who stared this topic. I really don’t see any verifying evidence in regard to this statment.

The quote used by sam shamon was taken from the Qisa al-anbia “The Stories of the Prophets.” which are tales adopted from the Qur’an. I don’t think this is proof of any such thing. Is there anything else? The other sites were based on this same story book.

T

 

[planten]

---

I believe somewhere in the OT it does say “Cursed is he who dies on a tree” Could find it with a concordance.
But Jesus took the curse so that we might have the Blessing.
If you read Psalm 21 which starts with …
“My God My God why have you forsaken me”
Jesus, our sin bearer experienced seperation from God.
V.25 says For he has not spurned nor disdained the wretched man in his misery, nor did he turn his face away from him
V30 And to him my soul shall live"
Read the whole psalm , it ends up on the note of victory.

In some Muslim lands there is a public holiday to celebrate the Ascension of Mahommed…

**Good post by matahari. The Ascention of Muhammad was a spiritual journey. It was a vision, as if real and it took very little time. In the hadith which describes that Journey, in the end it says " Then I woke up."

Also it is forbidden for any mortel to travel to the heavens bodily. There is the verse of the Quran which forbids such things. See below:

[17:90] وَقَالُواْ لَن نُّؤۡمِنَ لَكَ حَتَّىٰ تَفۡجُرَ لَنَا مِنَ ٱلۡأَرۡضِ يَنۢبُوعًا

[17:90] And they say, ‘We will never believe thee ( O Muhammad) until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth;**

[17:91] أَوۡ تَكُونَ لَكَ جَنَّةٌ۬ مِّن نَّخِيلٍ۬ وَعِنَبٍ۬ فَتُفَجِّرَ ٱلۡأَنۡهَـٰرَ خِلَـٰلَهَا تَفۡجِيرًا

[17:91] ‘Or thou have a garden of datepalms and vines, and cause streams to gush forth in the midst thereof in abundance;

[17:92] أَوۡ تُسۡقِطَ ٱلسَّمَآءَ كَمَا زَعَمۡتَ عَلَيۡنَا كِسَفًا أَوۡ تَأۡتِىَ بِٱللَّهِ وَٱلۡمَلَـٰٓٮِٕڪَةِ قَبِيلاً

[17:92] ‘Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us in pieces, as thou hast claimed, or thou bring Allah and the angels before us face to face;

[17:93] اَوْ يَكُوْنَ لَـكَ بَيْتٌ مِّنْ زُخْرُفٍ اَوْ تَرْقٰى فِىْ السَّمَآءِؕ وَلَنْ نُّـؤْمِنَ لِرُقِيِّكَ حَتّٰى تُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْنَا كِتٰبًا نَّـقْرَؤُهٗ‌ؕ قُلْ سُبْحَانَ رَبِّىْ هَلْ كُنْتُ اِلَّا بَشَرًا رَّسُوْلاً‏

[17:93] ‘Or thou ( O Muhammad) have a house of gold or thou ascend up into heaven; and we will not believe in thy ascension until thou send down to us a book that we can read.’ Say, ‘Holy is my Lord! I am not but a man sent as a Messenger.

That proves that a mortal man cannot go up ino heavens.