Mulieris Dignitatem and Predestination

[Mintaka]

So now let’s go back to “Mulieris dignitatem.”

“The particular union of the “Theotókos” with God - which fulfils in the most eminent manner the supernatural predestination to union with the Father which is granted to every human being (filii in Filio) - is a pure grace and, as such, a gift of the Spirit.”

“filii in Filio” means “as children/sons in the Son.” Everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus Christ. We become part of His Body through Baptism; and so we become adopted sons and daughters of God, co-heirs with Christ. God wills that all human beings should be part of the Body of Christ. Not everybody does become part of Christ’s Body, but that is not because of what God wills; it is what individual humans will.

Now let’s look at your second quote:

“If man is the image and likeness of God by his very nature as a person, then his greatness and his dignity are achieved in the covenant with God, in union with him, in striving towards that fundamental unity which belongs to the internal “logic” of the very mystery of creation… man, who among all the creatures of the visible world was elevated from the beginning through the eternal choice of God in Jesus: “He chose us in (Christ) before the foundation of the world, … He destined us in love to be his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will” (Eph 1:4-6). The biblical teaching taken as a whole enables us to say that predestination concerns all human persons, men and women, each and every one without exception.”

The point here is that all humans are called to union with the Father, because that is why we were made in His image and likeness. That’s what we were made for. Not everyone does what they were made for; but again, that’s not God’s fault. Individual humans choose to turn their back on Him, or choose to seek Him to the best of their ability. Individual humans choose to accept the graces God gives them, and go from incomplete to complete predestination; or they choose to ignore God’s graces, and find themselves in Hell.

Obviously it’s a lot easier to go to Heaven if you have graces from the Sacraments, including Baptism. But then again, God expects a lot more response from those of us who should know better and do better. Not all graces are restricted to the Sacraments, though, and God grants some kind of grace to all humans.

He goes the extra mile for us, even though we mostly don’t go the extra mile for Him.

 

[Cathoholic]

Letalbean95. You mentioned . .

QUOTE:
I am forming a question from what John Paul II stated in his encyclical “Mulieris Dignitatem.” From what I understand Predestination Indicates that something will happen INFALLIBLY. Hence why I asked what John Paul II meant when he talked about predestined union to the Father “being granted to every human being”. I am open to other definitions of Predestination. But it sounds like hes says that everyone is predestined to Heaven as in everyone is SAVED.

Looks like Mintaka’s post is far more insightful than mine.

Thanks Mintaka for not only doing the homework but including it in your post too.

Also lethalbean95.

I went back and read the first quote you gave from Mulieris Dignitatem.

(I’ll try to look more at the second quote later.)

Mulieris Dignitatem (brief excerpt) . . . The particular union of the “Theotókos” with God - which fulfils in the most eminent manner the supernatural predestination to union with the Father which is granted to every human being (filii in Filio) - is a pure grace and, as such, a gift of the Spirit. At the same time, however, through her response of faith Mary exercises her free will . . .

Being gifted with or granted a predestination to union is different than . . .
. . . being gifted with or granted a predestination to union AND by free will accepting this “gift” or “grant”.

We know that even on a natural level.

When a high school kid gets offered a “grant” for college, for a variety of reasons, he or she may decide to refuse that “grant” he was given (such as if they decide to go to a different college. Or decide not to attend college at all.).

“God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave His only begotten Son” . . . doesn’t necessarily mean EVERYBODY in “the world” accepts His beneficence.

In addition to the “grant” aspect . . .

Pope John Paul II ALSO made it clear there are elements of Mary that are unique leading up to his mentioning her predestination (yes that includes the Incarnation but I think Pope John Paul II had other aspects in mind concerning Mary such as Mary’s “singular privilege” of sinlessness leading up to the Annunciation too. There may have been other unique aspects of Mary’s predestination he had in mind also.).

I think it is important to the discussion to look beyond only the portion about the Blessed Virgin Mary and “predestination”.

I read the part concerning Mary’s “predestination” and saw Pope John Paul II lead right into Mary’s “free will” too.

We need to apply THAT in the formula for all mankind as well.

The predestination we have is being “sons in the son” (“filii in Filio”) is one aspect of the whole in the context here.

But we are ALSO predestined to have free will (this is part of WHY this is all so mysterious. It’s like holding up a mirror to a mirror and seeing a vast array of reflections that go beyond ONE reflection).

Try to understand this mystery deeper (as you are doing), but don’t try to reduce any mystery down to a natural formula. It won’t work.

QUOTE:
POPE JOHN PAUL II 4. Thus the “fullness of time” manifests the extraordinary dignity of the “woman”. On the one hand, this dignity consists in the supernatural elevation to union with God in Jesus Christ, which determines the ultimate finality of the existence of every person both on earth and in eternity. From this point of view, the “woman” is the representative and the archetype of the whole human race: she represents the humanity which belongs to all human beings, both men and women. On the other hand, however, the event at Nazareth highlights a form of union with the living God which can only belong to the “woman”, Mary: the union between mother and son. The Virgin of Nazareth truly becomes the Mother of God.

This truth, which Christian faith has accepted from the beginning, was solemnly defined at the Council of Ephesus (431 A.D.).[18] In opposition to the opinion of Nestorius, who held that Mary was only the mother of the man Jesus, this Council emphasized the essential meaning of the motherhood of the Virgin Mary. At the moment of the Annunciation, by responding with her “fiat”, Mary conceived a man who was the Son of God, of one substance with the Father. Therefore she is truly the Mother of God, because motherhood concerns the whole person, not just the body, nor even just human “nature”. In this way the name “Theotókos” - Mother of God - became the name proper to the union with God granted to the Virgin Mary.

The particular union of the “Theotókos” with God - which fulfils in the most eminent manner the supernatural predestination to union with the Father which is granted to every human being (filii in Filio) - is a pure grace and, as such, a gift of the Spirit. At the same time, however, through her response of faith Mary exercises her free will and thus fully shares with her personal and feminine “I” in the event of the Incarnation. With her “fiat”, Mary becomes the authentic subject of that union with God which was realized in the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word, who is of one substance with the Father. All of God’s action in human history at all times respects the free will of the human “I”. And such was the case with the Annunciation at Nazareth.

– Mulieris Dignitatem section 4.

 

[po18guy]

Im just concerned with what is said. How can predestined union with the father being granted to every human being. To me what sounds like is being said is everyone is predestined to the Beatific Vision. Thats what union with the Father is no? Destination and Predestination are two different things. Predestinations seems to indicate that something will infallibly happen.

God granted us something that He does not have: free will. Since love is a choice, a decision, it is false if forced or coerced. Thus, He graced us with the free will to choose to love Him and keep His commands.

Thus they reasoned, but they were led astray, for their wickedness blinded them, and they did not know the secret purposes of God, nor hope for the wages of holiness, nor discern the prize for blameless souls; for God created man for incorruption, and made him in the image of his own eternity, but through the devil’s envy death entered the world, and those who belong to his party experience it. Wisdom 2:21-24

We know that “who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.” 1 Timothy 2:4

 

[fred_conty]

St. Alphonsus gives an answer which would apply to the Pope’s understanding of predestination.

We answer, with St. John of Damascus, St. Thomas of Aquin, and the great body of Catholic Doctors, that with regard to the reprobation of sinners, it is necessary to distinguish between the priority of time and the priority of order, or, if we may say, of reason. In priority of time, the Divine Decree is anterior to man’s sin; but in priority of order, sin is anterior to the Divine Decree; for God has decreed many sinners to hell, inasmuch as he has foreseen their sins. Hence we may see that God, with that antecedent will which regards his goodness, truly wills that all should be saved, but by that consequent will which regards the sins of the reprobate, he wishes their damnation.

The Pope sees predestination in the light of the Divine Decree being prior to man’s sin.

 

[Cathoholic]

po18guy. You mentioned . . .

QUOTE:
God granted us something that He does not have: free will.

I think I understand what you mean (God is immutable/never changes).

But considering how the CCC words this, I would probably phrase that answer differently.

CCC 295a We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom. It is not the product of any necessity whatever, nor of blind fate or chance. We believe that it proceeds from God’s free will; he wanted to make his creatures share in his being . . . .

CCC 1705 By virtue of his soul and his spiritual powers of intellect and will, man is endowed with freedom, an “outstanding manifestation of the divine image.”

CCC 1730 b . . . . God created man a rational being, conferring on him the dignity of a person who can initiate and control his own actions. “God willed that man should be ‘left in the hand of his own counsel,’ so that he might of his own accord seek his Creator and freely attain his full and blessed perfection by cleaving to him.”

Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts.

**
BALTIMORE CATECHISM** Q. 137. How is the soul like to God?
A. The soul is like to God because it is a spirit that will never die, and has understanding
and free will.​

 

[lethalbean95]

So now let’s go back to “Mulieris dignitatem.”

“filii in Filio” means “as children/sons in the Son.” Everyone who is saved is saved through Jesus Christ. We become part of His Body through Baptism; and so we become adopted sons and daughters of God, co-heirs with Christ. God wills that all human beings should be part of the Body of Christ. Not everybody does become part of Christ’s Body, but that is not because of what God wills; it is what individual humans will.

Now let’s look at your second quote:

The point here is that all humans are called to union with the Father, because that is why we were made in His image and likeness. That’s what we were made for. Not everyone does what they were made for; but again, that’s not God’s fault. Individual humans choose to turn their back on Him, or choose to seek Him to the best of their ability. Individual humans choose to accept the graces God gives them, and go from incomplete to complete predestination; or they choose to ignore God’s graces, and find themselves in Hell.

Obviously it’s a lot easier to go to Heaven if you have graces from the Sacraments, including Baptism. But then again, God expects a lot more response from those of us who should know better and do better. Not all graces are restricted to the Sacraments, though, and God grants some kind of grace to all humans.

He goes the extra mile for us, even though we mostly don’t go the extra mile for Him.

Thank you this cleared up a lot for me

 

[lethalbean95]

Letalbean95. You mentioned . .

QUOTE:
I am forming a question from what John Paul II stated in his encyclical “Mulieris Dignitatem.” From what I understand Predestination Indicates that something will happen INFALLIBLY. Hence why I asked what John Paul II meant when he talked about predestined union to the Father “being granted to every human being”. I am open to other definitions of Predestination. But it sounds like hes says that everyone is predestined to Heaven as in everyone is SAVED.

Looks like Mintaka’s post is far more insightful than mine.

Thanks Mintaka for not only doing the homework but including it in your post too.

Also lethalbean95.

I went back and read the first quote you gave from Mulieris Dignitatem.

(I’ll try to look more at the second quote later.)

Being gifted with or granted a predestination to union is different than . . .
. . . being gifted with or granted a predestination to union AND by free will accepting this “gift” or “grant”.

We know that even on a natural level.

When a high school kid gets offered a “grant” for college, for a variety of reasons, he or she may decide to refuse that “grant” he was given (such as if they decide to go to a different college. Or decide not to attend college at all.).

“God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave His only begotten Son” . . . doesn’t necessarily mean EVERYBODY in “the world” accepts His beneficence.

In addition to the “grant” aspect . . .

Pope John Paul II ALSO made it clear there are elements of Mary that are unique leading up to his mentioning her predestination (yes that includes the Incarnation but I think Pope John Paul II had other aspects in mind concerning Mary such as Mary’s “singular privilege” of sinlessness leading up to the Annunciation too. There may have been other unique aspects of Mary’s predestination he had in mind also.).

I think it is important to the discussion to look beyond only the portion about the Blessed Virgin Mary and “predestination”.

I read the part concerning Mary’s “predestination” and saw Pope John Paul II lead right into Mary’s “free will” too.

We need to apply THAT in the formula for all mankind as well.

The predestination we have is being “sons in the son” (“filii in Filio”) is one aspect of the whole in the context here.

But we are ALSO predestined to have free will (this is part of WHY this is all so mysterious. It’s like holding up a mirror to a mirror and seeing a vast array of reflections that go beyond ONE reflection).

Try to understand this mystery deeper (as you are doing), but don’t try to reduce any mystery down to a natural formula. It won’t work.

QUOTE:
POPE JOHN PAUL II 4. Thus the “fullness of time” manifests the extraordinary dignity of the “woman”. On the one hand, this dignity consists in the supernatural elevation to union with God in Jesus Christ, which determines the ultimate finality of the existence of every person both on earth and in eternity. From this point of view, the “woman” is the representative and the archetype of the whole human race: she represents the humanity which belongs to all human beings, both men and women. On the other hand, however, the event at Nazareth highlights a form of union with the living God which can only belong to the “woman”, Mary: the union between mother and son. The Virgin of Nazareth truly becomes the Mother of God.

This truth, which Christian faith has accepted from the beginning, was solemnly defined at the Council of Ephesus (431 A.D.).[18] In opposition to the opinion of Nestorius, who held that Mary was only the mother of the man Jesus, this Council emphasized the essential meaning of the motherhood of the Virgin Mary. At the moment of the Annunciation, by responding with her “fiat”, Mary conceived a man who was the Son of God, of one substance with the Father. Therefore she is truly the Mother of God, because motherhood concerns the whole person, not just the body, nor even just human “nature”. In this way the name “Theotókos” - Mother of God - became the name proper to the union with God granted to the Virgin Mary.

The particular union of the “Theotókos” with God - which fulfils in the most eminent manner the supernatural predestination to union with the Father which is granted to every human being (filii in Filio) - is a pure grace and, as such, a gift of the Spirit. At the same time, however, through her response of faith Mary exercises her free will and thus fully shares with her personal and feminine “I” in the event of the Incarnation. With her “fiat”, Mary becomes the authentic subject of that union with God which was realized in the mystery of the Incarnation of the Word, who is of one substance with the Father. All of God’s action in human history at all times respects the free will of the human “I”. And such was the case with the Annunciation at Nazareth.

– Mulieris Dignitatem section 4.

Thanks for this post it was more helpful in understanding the issue