Multiculturalism in the West

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Again, i think the neoconservative movement explains much of this. Their “family values” rhetoric is simply used to keep the dissenters registered within the party, but they will favor corporatism and their MTV values to the end, including the harmful cultural effects it brings about which have led to a hedonistic directionless culture. Their support of free trade has shipped off all of the relatively high paying blue collar jobs, destroying the middle class and making the family only an institution that can be enjoyed by the haves. True, the current state of culture IS NOT worth preserving, because it is a perversion of the western tradition, one which has been generally shaped by Christianity, law, the family (though that is a universal value really), and the liberal arts. I am not at all trying to celebrate our country’s history, in fact it is a pretty sick one. I say that we are here now and can do nothing about the past except avoid a future where politicians preach that america is exceptional and something worth celebrating. It is a good country to me because i was born here, but nothing more than that.
All of this consists in personal judgments about a group of people that might not even exist other than in the imagination of some. How many conservatives, whether “neo” or “paleo” actually favor “MTV values” including harmful cultural effects leading to a directionless culture"

I know lots of conservatives, and I have never met one like that. Most conservatives I know really are family oriented, and a significant number of them are not particularly swayed by commercialism of any kind. Usually they’re the ones who complain about “MTV values, hedonism and a directionless culture…” and vote against anybody who seems to embody such things.

I think maybe you’re really thinking about “limousine liberals” and have applied the wrong term to them.

And before giving up on western culture, one might get to know some people who actually revere it. There are lots of them.
 
All of this consists in personal judgments about a group of people that might not even exist other than in the imagination of some. How many conservatives, whether “neo” or “paleo” actually favor “MTV values” including harmful cultural effects leading to a directionless culture"

I know lots of conservatives, and I have never met one like that. Most conservatives I know really are family oriented, and a significant number of them are not particularly swayed by commercialism of any kind. Usually they’re the ones who complain about “MTV values, hedonism and a directionless culture…” and vote against anybody who seems to embody such things.

I think maybe you’re really thinking about “limousine liberals” and have applied the wrong term to them.

And before giving up on western culture, one might get to know some people who actually revere it. There are lots of them.
Of course i am generalizing about these movements. I’ll admit that but generalizing is how elections are won and policies are determined. Regardless, tonight will be a great example of the two natures of these groups. The neos (maybe not in person but in principle) will want you to go to the mall and spur the free market after your thanksgiving dinner, while the paleos would prefer you actually spend time with your family. Sorry for digressing this really isn’t relevant to multiculturalism.
 
I am, though, inclined to wonder when the top 2% did NOT control 45% of the wealth. I recall seeing in a TV account that, at one time, some rich guy in the 19th Century (might have been JP Morgan) owned more wealth than all the rest of the citizens of the country combined. But if, at some point, 45% was not controlled by 2%, I would be glad to look at the numbers and the source.


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Human life is restriction, there is no such thing as absolute freedom. This reminds me of those poets who completely reject the history of poetic form and think they can write a beautiful poem immediately with no knowledge of poetry. Freedom is found within forms. Surely you must have some appreciation for collectivism, authority and tradition also, considering you are a Catholic. It’s also funny, because there is no such thing as true individualism anyway, everything works within a form, even your own views happens to be so commonplace as to be able to attribute your own individualism to collectivism itself. And I can’t help but see in your post the very ideas that have brought about the current situations in regards to multiculturalism and mass immigration, the idea that if we get rid of race and true diversity by interbreeding that suddenly all wars will go away and we’ll live in an age of peace. The tower of babel will always fall.
Do you agree with kinism?

Kinism is a view that some Calvinists have that races and ethnic groups exist for a reason and interracial marriage is evil. They do not go so far to say that some racial groups are superior to others but think that races should stick with each other and not live with other races.
 
I was specifically interested in whether you have fully accepted the tenets of white nationalism or were just sorta sitting on the fence there.
I am not, as I’ve already said, a white nationalist. I do not believe in ‘nationalism’. I do not believe in, or want, an ethnically pure state, or race. Radix has many questionable things on it, but my position is not a mainstream one and so it is hard to find things on the fringe that suit exactly my position. The original article that I posted though, I do believe it is useful for explaining some things I agree with with that are necessary to show.

My actual position is difficult, because it will never come about in my lifetime. I believe a monarchy is the best form of government, and I think democracy is by far the worst. I live in a constitutional monarchy, but it the monarch has so little power that really I live in a democracy like most others. Also like most other democracies in the West, I live in a multicultural, multiracial society that has an unprecedented amount of immigration. I do believe that these things will lead, and have led, to decay in all aspects of society. Now, I’m sure you’ve noticed that I’ve just said that a multi-racial society will lead to decay and use this to call me a racist, but the context is specifically within a democracy.

A democracy will always pit the majority against the minority. That is what it is, it is the tyranny of the majority. In a democracy you can’t have large pockets of people from all around the globe, because either the current majority will turn on them, or when the minority becomes the majority they will turn on the host. Either way, someone will be oppressed by the other. Also, as egalitarianism becomes more and more extreme, freedoms will diminish and the host will become increasingly angry, justifiably so, until eventually they strike back in what will be in extreme way.

And as for multiculturalism, the idea that all cultures are equal and can and should exist side by side, I think this is absurd. There is no equality. I do not think this needs arguing. Multiculturalism is moral relativism, and it will again lead to one group subjugating the other as the frictions between conflicting cultures comes to a head.

Ultimately, I do not know what will happen, but the pendulum will swing one way or the other. I think it’s likely we’ll see democratically appointed fascism again in this century, or communism. Our nations have been practically engineered to collapse in this way.
Do you agree with kinism?
Kinism is a view that some Calvinists have that races and ethnic groups exist for a reason and interracial marriage is evil. They do not go so far to say that some racial groups are superior to others but think that races should stick with each other and not live with other races.
I’m sure ethnic groups do exist for a reason, I don’t think mixing them is evil though. I would say what the article in my original post said, that it’s natural and good to love your own people more than another. You share a bond, it’s normal. Here’s the Aquinas quote from the article:
"Man is debtor chiefly to his parents and his country, after God. Wherefore just as it belongs to religion to give worship to God, so does it belong to piety, in the second place, to give worship to one’s parents and one’s country.
"The worship due to our parents includes the worship given to all our kindred, since our kinsfolk are those who descend from the same parents …
And here is the quote from Pope Pius XII in his Summi Pontificatus:
  1. Nor is there any fear lest the consciousness of universal brotherhood aroused by the teaching of Christianity, and the spirit which it inspires, be in contrast with love of traditions or the glories of one’s fatherland, or impede the progress of prosperity or legitimate interests. For that same Christianity teaches that in the exercise of charity we must follow a God-given order, yielding the place of honor in our affections and good works to those who are bound to us by special ties. Nay, the Divine Master Himself gave an example of this preference for His Own country and fatherland, as He wept over the coming destruction of the Holy City. But legitimate and well-ordered love of our native country should not make us close our eyes to the all-embracing nature of Christian Charity, which calls for consideration of others and of their interests in the pacifying light of love.
So the question is balance. Kinism seems to swing too far in the other direction. I think different races can get along fine, but in modern society we are set up to clash. In a democratic nation I think it is best for a nation to be largely homogenous and for the traditions and culture of the host to be dominant. At the moment, the West seems to be rather sadomasochistic. This is one extreme that I believe will lead to another.

By the way, I’m obviously not American, although most of you seem to be, so your situation is very different and I’m fairly unfamiliar with it, but I did notice one of you say that America was founded on democracy. Did you know that there is no mention of democracy in the constitution? I’m also fairly sure that a good few of the founding fathers also thought of democracy as an evil regime.
 
The article in the original post and thus the thread itself posits that the Church opposes the Civil Rights Act of 1964. So, let’s look at some things that the Church is fine with:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/Ed1APDoErv8/S-p9o_SYiI/AAAAAAAAAXs/_LuU3R7GtNg/s1600/Colored%2520Only.jpg



http://callisto.ggsrv.com/imgsrv/FastFetch/UBER2/pwrl_0001_0002_0_img0097

http://israelunite.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/civilrightsdogattack.jpg

http://www.camden.k12.nj.us/S/ECMS/hosed down.gif

The Church is fine with these things, yeah? I assume so, since no one else seems to object. I must be the only one that doesn’t get it.

And for good measure, a little “race mixing is communism” fits right in here. I absolutely savor the irony of warning individualists about communism because the individualists aren’t racist enough. 👍

 
‘Multi-cultralism’ us one of those wholly self-congratulatory terms produced by profkult- only a Soviet - style word suffices- in which the habits of mind & soul of people in Europe and the US have been denigrated and suppressed in favor of a patchwork off bits sewn together from other cultures by secularists who would hate the real cultures that produced the bits if they were to live there; and the kulturiat congratulate themselves effusively for being so open and thoughtful and catholic (small c) in their acceptance of Humanity. There is no real interest in the realities involved, in the true joys or horrors - it’s all affectation.
 
Thank you Weller!
Mildly intertesting, but I think the charts are skewed to show the desired result. Comparing 90% of the population to .001% doesn’t tell us a whole lot about incomes across the board. Leaves out the great majority of millionaires. It doesn’t tell us anything to compare everybody else with, say, Gill Gates alone. Nor does the comparison of average tax rates tell us much of anything. If, say, in 1928 the majority of the income of the very wealthy was in “ordinary income” it would naturally be higher than now if the majority of their income is in the form of capital gain. Warren Buffett, for example, can and does manipulate his tax by minimizing ordinary income and, frankly, by not cashing out.
 
I don’t support human rights either, Veritas. Does that mean I want the world to be enslaved and people to be murdered and exploited daily? You posting those pictures and trying to say everyone who doesn’t agree with you wants to treat people like that is a disgusting thing to do, although it is a typical tactic for a leftist to blow everything up into an emotional hysteria and paint the opposition as some kind of devil.

The article I posted does not advocate coloured fountains or violence against blacks. It specifically says racism is wrong and unchristian (although it obviously has to point out the now inflated definition of racism, similar to how fascism evolved quickly into the catchall term for people you don’t like) and recognises that everyone needs to be treated with dignity. Here’s the section on civil rights:
So the kind of discrimination the Church opposes is very different from the kind the Civil Rights Act of 1964 forbids. What it means by “discrimination” is not difference in treatment as such but abusive discrimination that does not serve the common good or respect those subject to it. Promoting recognition of a distinction in function between the sexes is not that kind of discrimination, and in fact is a good idea that we should all favor.
Does the Christian stance on women also subjugate and disrespect women because it recognises that the sexes are different and that the man is primary in all affairs? Does this make me a sexist bigot also? Does this mean I expect a woman to stay locked in the cupboard giving birth for her entire life and that she is inferior to a man? Perhaps according to you.
 
Do you believe in multiculturalism? Racial diversity? Egalitarianism? Identity politics and gender theory? Where does it end? Do Western nations need to be demographically fractured and have their homogeneity destroyed? Do Western nations not deserve to keep their cultures and their traditions and their ethnic peoples?

radixjournal.com/altright-archive/altright-archive/main/blogs/untimely-observations/inclusiveness-and-catholicism?rq=catholic

Do you not think that perhaps this has all gone too far? Why does the Church not speak out against the erosion of the West through demographic and social engineering?
So what solutions do you propose that will arrest the erosion of the West?
 
I don’t support human rights either, Veritas. Does that mean I want the world to be enslaved and people to be murdered and exploited daily?
I don’t know what you mean by “I don’t support human rights.” The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is not an abstract thing in the way “human rights” are, it has a very specific meaning. When you say the Church opposes this act, when you say you oppose this act, then you are opposing very specific practices.
You posting those pictures and trying to say everyone who doesn’t agree with you wants to treat people like that is a disgusting thing to do,
I don’t know whether it’s disgusting or not, but it is truthful and that is more important. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 is the item that prohibited these practices. Opposition to the act is opposition to the prohibition of these practices. It’s that cut and dry.
although it is a typical tactic for a leftist to blow everything up into an emotional hysteria and paint the opposition as some kind of devil.
You’re calling me a leftist. What exactly is your definition of lefitst? Just about the only thing I’ve said here is that I’m not an advocate of racial segregation. That alone makes me a leftist? Am I still a leftist if I want to abolish the income tax? Am I still a leftist if I want to get rid of the social security system? Am I still a leftist if I oppose gun control? Is race-mixing alone enough to make me a leftist despite those things?
The article I posted does not advocate coloured fountains or violence against blacks. It specifically says racism is wrong and unchristian (although it obviously has to point out the now inflated definition of racism, similar to how fascism evolved quickly into the catchall term for people you don’t like) and recognises that everyone needs to be treated with dignity. Here’s the section on civil rights:
So the kind of discrimination the Church opposes is very different from the kind the Civil Rights Act of 1964 forbids. What it means by “discrimination” is not difference in treatment as such but abusive discrimination that does not serve the common good or respect those subject to it. Promoting recognition of a distinction in function between the sexes is not that kind of discrimination, and in fact is a good idea that we should all favor.
So, you’re setting up a dichotomy. On the one hand, we’ve got the types of things outlawed by the Civil Rights Act of 1964. On the other hand, we’ve got “abusive discrimination.” Which is apparently… something different? OK. Since the racial segregation of public spaces,in schools and in workplaces and the resultant inequities which can be attributed thereto don’t count as “abusive discrimination,” what exactly does count as “abusive discrimination”? Give me some things other than lynching that count as “abusive discrimination.”

Also, if the items addressed in the Civil Rights Act of 1964 do not count as the “abusive discrimination” which you oppose, then why do the pictures bother you? If they are not “abusive discrimination” then they should not bother you. Right?
Does the Christian stance on women also subjugate and disrespect women because it recognises that the sexes are different and that the man is primary in all affairs? Does this make me a sexist bigot also? Does this mean I expect a woman to stay locked in the cupboard giving birth for her entire life and that she is inferior to a man? Perhaps according to you.
Excuse me. Are you asking me whether your belief that men are primary in all affairs means that you believe that women are inferior to men? You could just ask me whether I see the difference between 1+1 and 2 next time.

Seriously though, in what sense are you comparing race and gender? Men and women have different roles in God’s kingdom. God does not value us differently or command us to different roles in life based on our race. There is no race of men (or women, because women count too!) which is “primary in all affairs.” The comparison is nonsensical.
 
There is no race of men (or women, because women count too!) which is “primary in all affairs.” The comparison is nonsensical.
You know I really don’t understand why people like to forge such strong associative ties with the Church and Western civilization.

The Church is the Church. The term Catholic is supposed to stand for universal. There shouldn’t even be a West, East, North, or South. 🤷
 
Therefore, white nationalism? Let’s put all of our cards on the table here.

So the Church supports segregation, then? Or just turns a blind eye? The Church opposes equal pay for equal work? Or simply doesn’t care? Maybe you’re all just reading a different Civil Rights Act of 1964, because that’s what my version happens to cover.
How come you parrot the same poop that I find so common on SJW tumblr blogs? Don’t answer that question.
 
How come you parrot the same poop that I find so common on SJW tumblr blogs? Don’t answer that question.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!!! You think I’m an SJW because… why? Show me what I said in this thread that you would identify with SJW.
Lost Wanderer:
Wow, and they call me uncharitable.
Hey, Lost Wanderer, since you’re someone that one can actually engage in a discourse with, do you think I’m an SJW? Is it because I don’t think negroes should have their own drinking fountain? Or do you think it’s the fact that the white-skinned Pope taking a picture with brown people doesn’t offend me? Which of these things do you think makes me a bigger SJW? :p:p:p
 
Hey, Lost Wanderer, since you’re someone that one can actually engage in a discourse with, do you think I’m an SJW? Is it because I don’t think negroes should have their own drinking fountain? Or do you think it’s the fact that the white-skinned Pope taking a picture with brown people doesn’t offend me? Which of these things do you think makes me a bigger SJW? :p:p:p
Of course not. But if this thread is any indication, I guess I’m an SJW conspirator because I’m not even American. Plus, I still don’t understand why the ‘white man’s culture’ isn’t anymore of a golden calf than the black man’s, the brown man’s, or the yellow man’s. 😛

I’m sure everyone deserves a right to preserve their culture to some degree. But to oppose human AND civil rights!? :eek: Seems the news was right. Aryanism was just a sleeping giant.

P.S.

The fact that ‘SJW’ is even being tossed around here starts to concern me. It’s one of the reasons why I left YouTube and forgot about deviantArt. 🤷
 
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