C
Cruciferi
Guest
Creepy
I wonder what Fr. Amorth would say about this…
- Status
I wonder what Fr. Amorth would say about this…
M
midori
Guest
It was interesting.
The way they triggered the personality to come out was to talk about it in front of it, knowing it could hear us… and finally, it couldn’t stand it anymore, and wanted to come out and correct us on a few points. That particular personality was the most boss-like personality, one of the ones who knew all the others and generally took charge in coordinating things between them. The other personalities were a bit more specialized? if that makes sense? in terms of the situations where one of them would come forward and take over during a period.
Abandonment was one recurring theme. One personality, a 5 or 6-year-old child, had been developed when she was (all alone during a storm?) when she herself had been five or six years old. It didn’t really seem like the sort of thing that would normally trigger a separate personality to develop— but that’s the explanation we were given. Another one came when she was married to her first husband, who was a trucker, and who left her alone for extended periods of time. A third personality was developed to deal with unpleasant sexual situations. So basically, it was the equivalent of the personalities seeing that the Main Person was in an unpleasant situation, and wanting to protect her from it. So they bundle her consciousness to the back of her head, where she can go off and be somewhere else while Whatever happens, and one of them would take over her body to allow her to function through it— whether it’s dealing with other people’s aggression, or sexual abuse, or whatever. Then, when the episode was over, they’d relinquish control back to her-- and she would have a blank period in her memory. Other times, the personalities would come out, just for the heck of it. I think one of them might not have been used for years.
But people who knew her who had seen her during one of those periods would be left confused about why she was acting in an uncharacteristic manner. Which was why the “coming out” thing had happened— because certain friends had bumped into her when the 5-year-old personality was in charge, and they wondered why she was acting so weird. As well as other instances, etc.
Each of the personalities had a name. I’m rotten with names, so I don’t remember any of their “real” names.
The experience made me respect the personalities as entities distinct from my friend, but it was also close enough to the border to not want to look closely to see if it was “real” possession or just its next-door neighbor. Because you bet the thought occurred to me---- but it’s hardly polite to ask directly, especially when you’re just a friend-of-a-friend.
The way they triggered the personality to come out was to talk about it in front of it, knowing it could hear us… and finally, it couldn’t stand it anymore, and wanted to come out and correct us on a few points. That particular personality was the most boss-like personality, one of the ones who knew all the others and generally took charge in coordinating things between them. The other personalities were a bit more specialized? if that makes sense? in terms of the situations where one of them would come forward and take over during a period.
Abandonment was one recurring theme. One personality, a 5 or 6-year-old child, had been developed when she was (all alone during a storm?) when she herself had been five or six years old. It didn’t really seem like the sort of thing that would normally trigger a separate personality to develop— but that’s the explanation we were given. Another one came when she was married to her first husband, who was a trucker, and who left her alone for extended periods of time. A third personality was developed to deal with unpleasant sexual situations. So basically, it was the equivalent of the personalities seeing that the Main Person was in an unpleasant situation, and wanting to protect her from it. So they bundle her consciousness to the back of her head, where she can go off and be somewhere else while Whatever happens, and one of them would take over her body to allow her to function through it— whether it’s dealing with other people’s aggression, or sexual abuse, or whatever. Then, when the episode was over, they’d relinquish control back to her-- and she would have a blank period in her memory. Other times, the personalities would come out, just for the heck of it. I think one of them might not have been used for years.
But people who knew her who had seen her during one of those periods would be left confused about why she was acting in an uncharacteristic manner. Which was why the “coming out” thing had happened— because certain friends had bumped into her when the 5-year-old personality was in charge, and they wondered why she was acting so weird. As well as other instances, etc.
Each of the personalities had a name. I’m rotten with names, so I don’t remember any of their “real” names.
The experience made me respect the personalities as entities distinct from my friend, but it was also close enough to the border to not want to look closely to see if it was “real” possession or just its next-door neighbor. Because you bet the thought occurred to me---- but it’s hardly polite to ask directly, especially when you’re just a friend-of-a-friend.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Fortunately, the Church believes differently from you.
These notions you have may make for an interesting philosophical debate sitting around at Starbucks, but the Church teaching is one soul per one brain/ body.
We do not “literally have two brains and two minds”. The fact that a brain is bicameral and has two hemispheres does not magically make us have two brains.
E
Ecclesiastes
Guest
The two hemispheres being mostly independent of each other, and even opposing each other, certainly does imply two brains. There are scientific papers that state this. What is your expertise that makes you claim otherwise? I do happen to be an expert in this field.
E
Ecclesiastes
Guest
What is your definition of a “person?” If you define a person as simply one body then I see where you’re coming from. But when you have two or more totally dissociative personalities, it follows that there’s more than one person. It all depends on our definitions. Please try to explain to me why you say there is only one person in such people with MPD. Simply disagreeing without rationalizing is not too persuasive.
E
Ecclesiastes
Guest
I’m not talking about two people sitting at Starbucks but highly trained philosophers specializing in ethics. The issue here is whether somebody with two or more personalities which are completely dissociative constitutes two or more persons. Is it not immoral to murder a person?
Can you point me to where the Church explicitly states that we have just one brain and just one soul? What is your definition of a brain? What would it take before you accept the fact that the two hemispheres act as separate brains? If they were just one brain would we expect the two hemispheres to operate independently of each other and oppose each other? No, a single brain would be fully integrated and operate as a whole and never oppose itself.
It honestly sounds like you are presenting a personal belief without providing any rationale. If so, I cannot reason with you because you are certainly entitled to your personal belief even if it cannot be rationalized.
L
Lee1
Guest
That is a fascinating story midori thank you for sharing it.
It’s actually not difficult to imagine someone having more than one personality. I remember the first time I realised that people had more than one face was at school when one or two teachers I knew were with us kids out of school, quite different people. Since then I’ve noticed many people adopting different styles to function in different contexts. MPD may be an extreme case of something we actually commonly do. Since we share similar physiology we all have the potential to exhibit extreme behaviour.
Interesting, and impossible to comprehend fully for any layman, whether they be religious or otherwise.
There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy … (don’t remember the source of that.)
It’s actually not difficult to imagine someone having more than one personality. I remember the first time I realised that people had more than one face was at school when one or two teachers I knew were with us kids out of school, quite different people. Since then I’ve noticed many people adopting different styles to function in different contexts. MPD may be an extreme case of something we actually commonly do. Since we share similar physiology we all have the potential to exhibit extreme behaviour.
Interesting, and impossible to comprehend fully for any layman, whether they be religious or otherwise.
There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamed of in your philosophy … (don’t remember the source of that.)
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself
Patron
Catholic teaching, as shown by the apologists’ answers here dealing with the case of conjoined twins, sees the creation of a body having at least a brain as showing that God planned for the existence of a person, to whom God allotted a soul.
christianity.stackexchange.com
The creation of a separate body, even if the body did not fully complete the process of separating as a twin and hence ended up conjoined, shows that God intended to create a second person and is the reason for the two souls.
Dissociative identity disorder (formerly called MPD) is not a case of God creating a separate person, as there is no separate body created by God in whole or in part or conjoined, etc. DID is a mental illness.
User user35971
Q&A for committed Christians, experts in Christianity and those interested in learning more
christianity.stackexchange.com
The creation of a separate body, even if the body did not fully complete the process of separating as a twin and hence ended up conjoined, shows that God intended to create a second person and is the reason for the two souls.
Dissociative identity disorder (formerly called MPD) is not a case of God creating a separate person, as there is no separate body created by God in whole or in part or conjoined, etc. DID is a mental illness.
B
Bluebright
Guest
Nothing is impossible for God.
M
midori
Guest
“There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” -Hamlet!
L
Lee1
Guest
Ah, Hamlet, I used to like his cigars too.
Thanks
Thanks
C
Cruciferi
Guest
One Brain and one soul.
Unless you’re suggesting demonic possession by multiple entities, your assertion has no basis.
Your definition.
Everyone has tried to explain this to you. My advice would be to find a Catholic Psychologist who you can question.
A
angel12
Guest
We don’t know that. Only God really does.
Last edited:
L
Lee1
Guest
‘Please try to explain to me why you say there is only one person in such people with MPD. Simply disagreeing without rationalizing is not too persuasive.’
OP: Perhaps that depends on you definition of a person.
Mind, body and soul. A person has all three, but possibly not more ostensibly. The personality is as though the human being is more than the sum of its parts though and I would consider MPD as a fracture of personality rather than multiple distinct persons within one brain.
OP: Perhaps that depends on you definition of a person.
Mind, body and soul. A person has all three, but possibly not more ostensibly. The personality is as though the human being is more than the sum of its parts though and I would consider MPD as a fracture of personality rather than multiple distinct persons within one brain.
Last edited:
C
Cruciferi
Guest
The Catechism only lists Body and Soul.
364 The human body shares in the dignity of “the image of God”: it is a human body precisely because it is animated by a spiritual soul, and it is the whole human person that is intended to become, in the body of Christ, a temple of the Spirit. 232
Man, though made of body and soul, is a unity. Through his very bodily condition he sums up in himself the elements of the material world. Through him they are thus brought to their highest perfection and can raise their voice in praise freely given to the Creator. For this reason man may not despise his bodily life. Rather he is obliged to regard his body as good and to hold it in honor since God has created it and will raise it up on the last day. 233
365 The unity of soul and body is so profound that one has to consider the soul to be the “form” of the body 234 i.e., it is because of its spiritual soul that the body made of matter becomes a living, human body; spirit and matter, in man, are not two natures united, but rather their union forms a single nature.
Last edited:
L
Lee1
Guest
Well, so that makes everything much simpler doesn’t it.
That explains why the Church has had problems with psychology then.
That explains why the Church has had problems with psychology then.
C
Cruciferi
Guest
L
Lee1
Guest
Someone said that concerns of the flesh, specifically sex, is in opposition to the spirit. Experientially I’d agree. But that doesn’t gel with the above quote so well?
Also, I have personally developed spiritually, if I was already spirit what did I develop? My spirit or my mind and how it thinks about spirit?
Not arguing, just debating.
Last edited:
E
Ecclesiastes
Guest
It sounds like you’re making up your answers based on you’re own personal opinions without any justification!
I already provided my definition: A person has just one personality. If a person has two totally dissociative personalities one needs to consider that there are more than one person within the individual. The paradox, again, is if there is just one person then each totally dissociative personality should have an equal effect on the staining of the soul with sin and thus the person should be judged based on the co-effects of both personalities, even if just one personality is wicked.
I already provided my definition: A person has just one personality. If a person has two totally dissociative personalities one needs to consider that there are more than one person within the individual. The paradox, again, is if there is just one person then each totally dissociative personality should have an equal effect on the staining of the soul with sin and thus the person should be judged based on the co-effects of both personalities, even if just one personality is wicked.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
He posted the Catechism and I posted material from three apologists.
We’re not just making this stuff up. It seems rather than you are insisting on your own “definition” and your own opinion, based on you being an “expert in the field” according to yourself, and regardless of whatever Catholic sources are being introduced here.
- Status