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northshoreeagle
Guest
Am I alone or is the music in the church just dull? I’m a new Catholic coming to the church from the Episcopal Church who’s music just blows the Roman church away. Any thoughts?
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Wolseley
Guest
Anything written after 1965 stinks.
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dkoinzan
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I agree! Anything after 1965 is out. Apparently the Pope is onboard with you also.
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StephanieC
Guest
Keep in mind that different parishes have different strengths and weaknesses when it comes to their music ministry and the musical abilities of the folks involved.
You may have come from an extremely talented Episcopal congregation into a so-so Catholic parish; kind of hard to make an accurate generalization based on that.
Taking all that into account, I must say that the parishes that incorporate some of the older hymns into worship really don’t need to worry about the skills of the organist or cantor; the music is amazing.
You may have come from an extremely talented Episcopal congregation into a so-so Catholic parish; kind of hard to make an accurate generalization based on that.
Taking all that into account, I must say that the parishes that incorporate some of the older hymns into worship really don’t need to worry about the skills of the organist or cantor; the music is amazing.
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Transformer
Guest
Catholic parishes are very much encouraged to use music that is much more reverent than it is exciting because of what the Mass is, and what the eucharist is. As the two posters above me put it, most music written after 1965 doesn’t fit that criteria exceptionally well, to put it conservatively. At the Mass, the passion and death of our Lord Jesus Christ are made really present to us, and we are made present at them. There is a very widespread movement throughout the western Church towards traditional music because it is very often better at preserving reverence for that mystery. Of course, everyone here probably already knew that =(.
That having been said, I strongly oppose the idea that it is impossible for modern music, or music written after 1965 =), to do justice to what the Mass is. As a Catholic youth, I’ve been to Masses where modern-ish music was used which wasn’t reverent, and I’ve been to services at which the music was used with just as much reverence as traditional music, and there is a very real difference. I happen to generally like traditional “churchy” music, usually even more than modern misuc that might be appropriate for a Mass, but while we have to be careful in using modern music, some of it can be used in a way that does justice to the reality of Mass.
That having been said, I strongly oppose the idea that it is impossible for modern music, or music written after 1965 =), to do justice to what the Mass is. As a Catholic youth, I’ve been to Masses where modern-ish music was used which wasn’t reverent, and I’ve been to services at which the music was used with just as much reverence as traditional music, and there is a very real difference. I happen to generally like traditional “churchy” music, usually even more than modern misuc that might be appropriate for a Mass, but while we have to be careful in using modern music, some of it can be used in a way that does justice to the reality of Mass.
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2shelbys
Guest
That is because many of us like to keep the focus on God, not on the entertainment. Modern music is fine for various Church functions but not during Mass. Proper reverence must be displayed.
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chicago
Guest
Actually, much of the music with which you are familiar from an Episcopalean tradition may well be more “Catholic” in nature, traditionally. It is just that many parishes have either long gone modern with their selections or just don’t place the effort into developing worthy musical programs with excellent choral ensembles able to perform more challanging selections.
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NewUlm1976_2000
Guest
So true, you can have good or bad modern and old-style hymns depending on who is doing it. Both guitar or organ can be done beautifully or can be like fingers on the chalkboard.
Some of the best parishes are ones who can mix the two styles fluidly depending on the time of year.
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Caesar
Guest
Anglican music is derived from Catholic music! Dull? I think not!
Its just that ever since the 1960s, we have thrown away our great musical traditions in favor of dull, uninspiring, songs, some being written by protestants!
But fear not, there are still Catholic churches that treasure the great musical traditions of the Church (which are probably the greatest of all musical traditions in existance). Listen to the music from St. Agnes Church in St. Paul: stagnes.net/music-recordings.html
Its just that ever since the 1960s, we have thrown away our great musical traditions in favor of dull, uninspiring, songs, some being written by protestants!
But fear not, there are still Catholic churches that treasure the great musical traditions of the Church (which are probably the greatest of all musical traditions in existance). Listen to the music from St. Agnes Church in St. Paul: stagnes.net/music-recordings.html
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pyropam
Guest
I’m a new Catholic too… I don’t think that the songs or the music are the problem… I think I want to shake some of these people and say “Hey…they want you to SING”…
It seems that too many of the people are just not into the singing. Coming from a protestant church, we sang a lot and I really do enjoy the singing…
Put some of your SOUL into your singing and bring the Praise of the Lord to the top of your voice!!
It seems that too many of the people are just not into the singing. Coming from a protestant church, we sang a lot and I really do enjoy the singing…
Put some of your SOUL into your singing and bring the Praise of the Lord to the top of your voice!!
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baltobetsy
Guest
Welcome, northshoreeagle! I have held a paid position in an Episcopal church choir for 19 years. You are so right about the superiority of the music. But that is nothing compared to the treasure we have in the Eucharist. It would just be nice if the music measured up to the great dignity of the Mass.
Dotted across the landscape there are Catholic parishes where music is taken seriously and done well. Perhaps you’ll find one. I used to sing at one, until a new pastor decided that singers ought not to be paid. Since I needed a job, I moved on to the Episcopal church where I am to this day. I still cantor in my Catholic parish on Saturdays. We have a new young, idealistic organist there, so maybe things are looking up. He’s looking into buying new hymnals - I guess there’s no way to sneak in the 1982!
Betsy
Dotted across the landscape there are Catholic parishes where music is taken seriously and done well. Perhaps you’ll find one. I used to sing at one, until a new pastor decided that singers ought not to be paid. Since I needed a job, I moved on to the Episcopal church where I am to this day. I still cantor in my Catholic parish on Saturdays. We have a new young, idealistic organist there, so maybe things are looking up. He’s looking into buying new hymnals - I guess there’s no way to sneak in the 1982!
Betsy
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Lorrie
Guest
I prefer dull. Coming from an Assembly of God church where people are dancing and speaking in tongues and basically crying their eyes out (because, you know, that means they’re more devoted than you), for me “dull” music is a most welcome aspect of the Mass.
I walked into a parish out of town a few months ago. I walk in and see a set of drums and two guitars towards the front…I turned around and walked out. I had enough of that while growing up. I prefer the calmness the organ brings to my soul.
I walked into a parish out of town a few months ago. I walk in and see a set of drums and two guitars towards the front…I turned around and walked out. I had enough of that while growing up. I prefer the calmness the organ brings to my soul.
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Rabbititus
Guest
I interpreted the criticism that Catholic music is dull not as meaning the original poster would prefer dancing and drums, but dull in that a lot of contemporary Catholic hymnody is trite, gimmicky, and cutesy. I’ve heard that Episcopalian hymns and musical settings tend more to the traditional while not being overly sentimental or simplistic. A lot of Episcopal churches (so I’m told) have much more traditionally Catholic-looking/sounding liturgies.
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Lorrie
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I disagree. I suppose it just depends on who the listener is when it comes to describing Catholic music.
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reganq
Guest
I had a similar thought about a month ago. We were “singing” Joyful, Joyful, We Adore Thee at the end of mass. All I could think about is how Beethoven MUST be turning over in his grave because there was not much fervor to it.
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VociMike
Guest
If you do a little research you will find that the music situation in the Catholic Church today is an issue of great concern to many people. The 1965 reference is to the beginning of the “spirit of Vatican II” which many people totally misunderstood and decided to interpret as “in with the mod, out with everything else”. Actually, Vatican II had the strongest words of support for traditional Catholic music (Gregorian chant and sacred polyphony) of any Church council, ever, but you sure wouldn’t know it from the way that traditional music was tossed in the trash within months of the end of the Council!
The good news is that while the musical “inanes” have held the upper hand for 40 years, there is a strong revival building in the Church. Scholas (Gregorian chant choirs) are starting up everywhere, and regular choirs are discovering more and more the sublime beauty of the Catholic heritage. www.cpdl.org is a big help there. Some other places to see this revival in action are
musicasacra.com
www.thenewliturgicalmovement.blogspot.com
www.adoremus.org (lots of documents and articles on Catholic sacred music)
The recent motu proprio on the 1962 Missal will also undoubtedly have a positive effect on this revival. So, better music is coming now, and the situation looks as though it will just get better for the foreseeable future. The New Springtime of Catholic sacred music has begun. Join in! Discover and foster our Catholic birthright of sacred music!
Oh, and as a new Catholic you might want to take a listen to my own little effort a the New Springtime, www.choraltreasure.org, to see what those “1965” people threw out, and what we are attempting to bring back.
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IrishAm
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Because most parishes have multiple masses on the weekend – Saturday vigils through Sunday evening in some cases – the “talent” is often spread very thin. A lot of churches have one specific mass (usually 9:30 or 10:00 on Sunday) where they bring out all the smells and bells and the main choir participates then.
And those of us who go at 7:00 on Sunday morning are usually left harmonically alone . . .
And those of us who go at 7:00 on Sunday morning are usually left harmonically alone . . .
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
But we do have to consider, and be mindful, that to many people, the post 1965 hymns do have meaning, do have an appeal, etc. We must be very careful, as with all other aspects of the liturgy, that we are not so hasty in putting into practice any reforms or changes that we ‘throw out the baby with the bathwater’.
I lived through the radial changes of the “spirit of Vatican 2”. I am not saying that EVERYTHING that came about was wrong or awful, but I am saying that it was too much, too soon for most people, that it led to dreadful confusion and misapprehension, and as we are now seeing, was in some cases absolutely antithetical to what Vatican 2 actually SAID.
So. . .before we posit that everything from 1965 be removed in favor of ‘only what went before’. . .let us be mindful that there may indeed be a place for some of that music, that even if some pieces, or many pieces, are found ‘lacking’ that there can be changes or adaptations made that would make them suitable, perhaps, and failing that, that both the reason for their removal, and a gradual cessation, be offered to the congregation, along with likewise reasons for an ‘old’ piece’s reintroduction being given, and its gradual introduction, as well.
I know, I know. . .this from me, organist in the classical tradition with an avowed preference for the Latin Mass (and I haste to add, a proper appreciation for and respect for the vernacular Mass as well).
But I do understand and sympathize with those who do not share my preferences, and do not feel that they should be treated the way that many feel we were treated in 1970. We have learned from the past. . .or so I hope.
I lived through the radial changes of the “spirit of Vatican 2”. I am not saying that EVERYTHING that came about was wrong or awful, but I am saying that it was too much, too soon for most people, that it led to dreadful confusion and misapprehension, and as we are now seeing, was in some cases absolutely antithetical to what Vatican 2 actually SAID.
So. . .before we posit that everything from 1965 be removed in favor of ‘only what went before’. . .let us be mindful that there may indeed be a place for some of that music, that even if some pieces, or many pieces, are found ‘lacking’ that there can be changes or adaptations made that would make them suitable, perhaps, and failing that, that both the reason for their removal, and a gradual cessation, be offered to the congregation, along with likewise reasons for an ‘old’ piece’s reintroduction being given, and its gradual introduction, as well.
I know, I know. . .this from me, organist in the classical tradition with an avowed preference for the Latin Mass (and I haste to add, a proper appreciation for and respect for the vernacular Mass as well).
But I do understand and sympathize with those who do not share my preferences, and do not feel that they should be treated the way that many feel we were treated in 1970. We have learned from the past. . .or so I hope.
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VociMike
Guest
I just want to affirm that the Church does not call us to live in the past any more than it called us to abandon the treasure of the past. Vatican II calls on us to “preserve and foster” the traditon of sacred music. Part of the fostering of this tradition is to keep it alive and growing with new music of suitable form, beauty and holiness. I think most “reform of the reform” people such as myself would be delighted to include contemporary music of suitable form, beauty and holiness. The problem is that there is so very little such quality music around. But we must encourage composers, just as all the recent popes have encouraged composers, to add new music to the treasure of Catholic sacred music - music which grows organically from that treasure.
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mercygate
Guest
Most of the time music in the Catholic Church is not “dull” it is hideous.
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