Music leader rude to priest

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Apparently this got missed…

One person here says that the organist can receive by continuing to play and not missing a beat.They say that is not putting the music above the Eucharist.

I got an angry letter saying that by continuing to play while receiving, I was putting the music above the Eucharist.

Its neither. It is not putting the music above the Eucharist. It is about being properly disposed and not wanting to distract others.
 
There are several problems going on here with the “shouldas”…that really have no idea about what really goes on.

One parish I play for arranges for an EMHC to hold a pyx and stand there and wait for the musician to finish. This is prearranged. To all those in the pews it would seem here that this terrible musician is rudely making the EMHC wait around because they are putting themselves out there to show off in a recital than make it about the Eucharist.

Certain musical pieces (especially the ones that are pushed here at this forum) are especially difficult and need a lot of concentration to pull off in a decent way that isn’t fatal when trying to put together with a choir that is COUNTING on certain musical cues in order to execute. Some people cannot multi-task and receive the Eucharist while playing and taking care so that there isn’t some major mistakes going on. To have to receive the Eucharist while playing piano/organ is considered by some disrespectful. (I did it once when an EMHC came over to me and the pastor got an angry letter saying I wasn’t giving the Eucharist enough respect because I was playing piano while receiving) So whose opinion is right?

All of you who are “shoulding” all over the place, please take a step back and consider that maybe you don’t have the whole story. Maybe you don’t know what is in their heart. Maybe you don’t understand the whole situation. Maybe something YOU have done has appeared to be disrespectful to others.

I’m in the trenches…3-4 masses every sunday, 5-7every Weekend. For over 9 years now. I do not perform or give concerts at mass. I am there to lead worship and shrink out of sight. Your opinion of what is “acceptable” behavior is not based on the reality of my situation.
I can understand your frustration, really I can.

Before a disabling hand injury, I played the organ for over 40 years. 25 of those years were in my grandfather’s Presbyterian church. The remaining years were Masses, weddings and funerals.

Everyone’s situation is different. Even the logistics within a particular church can be different, but even with that, the priority is the Eucharist.

I don’t know if you realize the statement you made above. “I am there to lead worship”.

That is not your job, you are there to “assist”, which means the priest is the ultimate authority as to how the distribution of communion will be done. Even if that means you have to stop mid verse.

Final note, luckily my hand injury didn’t affect my shooting hand, since I am in law enforcement, that is a good thing.
 
No, I’m putting emphasis on not being distracting.

I am a person to say I’m not properly disposed to receive the Eucharist, that is who I am. Whether needing confession, or mind is not in the right mindset, for whatever reason.

And again, you are showing ignorance to the reality of the situation when you put it in to terms like one would say “wait a minute, I’ll receive later” Doesn’t happen. Not the reality of what actually happens.
Like I said in a previous post, I understand where you’re at. But, if for some reason I would not be receiving communion, as in needing to go to confession, I would advise the priest before Mass, so he could make the appropriate adjustments.
 
WHat I meant by “lead worship” is the song worship. That is indeed my job. I am not claiming authority over the priest.

Again, just because the priest stood there does not mean he was wanting the music director to stop mid-verse either. If a priest came by and was standing there, (the ones I’ve had converations with ) would kill me if I actually stopped mid verse because they were there. One priest told me he would come by when he was finished with the rest of the church, and wait for me to finish. He actually told me he would wait till my part was done.
 
No, I’m putting emphasis on not being distracting.

I am a person to say I’m not properly disposed to receive the Eucharist, that is who I am. Whether needing confession, or mind is not in the right mindset, for whatever reason.

And again, you are showing ignorance to the reality of the situation when you put it in to terms like one would say “wait a minute, I’ll receive later” Doesn’t happen. Not the reality of what actually happens.
You’re the one who made the statement about receiving later.
 
You’re the one who made the statement about receiving later.
Your hyperbole about “saying to to the priest wait or I’ll receive later” is not what I said. It was hyperbole that does not match the reality of the situation
 
Your hyperbole about “saying to to the priest wait or I’ll receive later” is not what I said. It was hyperbole that does not match the reality of the situation
Here is what you said. You made the comment about receiving later. So, you see, it is not hyperbole.
I will NOT draw attention to myself by stopping mid-verse to receive, I will receive later, when more appropriate that I don’t draw attention to myself and have time to focus on who I am receiving.
 
Should the choir even be singing during the Communion Rite?
Well, according to the GIRM, someone should be singing – starting as the priest receives Communion and lasting until everyone has received. It would be great if the community kept singing while the choir is receiving but that rarely happens.

I’ve done the the ‘couple of people at a time’ go to Communion thing. That works OK if you’re singing in unison, not so great if you’re singing in harmony.
 
It seems to me that a good solution would be for the choir to receive Holy Communion after Mass. I am a little surprised that some are saying the musical director in question was rude to the priest or disrespectful towards the Lord for not stopping the music, yet at the same time advocating that a choir receive the Lord while they are still singing, or in the case of an organist, while he is still playing. I would not receive while playing the organ, because I know that I wouldn’t be focused on the Eucharist, but rather on the music. I don’t like to receive directly before singing either as I like to give personal thanksgiving to the Lord immediately - rather than Eucharist first, then music, then thanksgiving…It just doesn’t seem right to me to receive the Lord if you can’t spend time in thanksgiving.

I suppose my point is that some could regard receiving the Lord while singing or playing as being just as disrespectful - perhaps even moreso - than a choir director not stopping in the middle of a piece to allow the choir to receive. As someone pointed out earlier, we don’t know the full situation anyway - the choir director could have arranged that they would sing x amount of verses. Another consideration might be that there could be too many extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion - of course that is just speculation, but about a month ago I was playing an organ piece during Communion which would ordinarily take 2 minutes to play: I was about one quarter of the way through it when I realised that Communion was completely over! Sometimes the Communion procession can be made too short - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect the choir to be able to sing just one full hymn.
 
At my church, the choir, organists, and cantors all go to receive while the Eucharistic Ministers receive.

I can understand the priest just standing there awkwardly while the music leader is singing the song. It’s uncomfortable and awkward. What they can do is what they do like what my church above does, or find some alternative method.
 
What they can do is what they do like what my church above does, or find some alternative method.
No, no, that will not do, it’s much more convenient and instinctive to blame the musicians for disrespectful behaviour.

If they receive communion when the EMHCs do, you will hear loud screams that communion chant is supposed to begin as soon as the priest communicates, and because it appears to put the musicians in some “selective” category because they receive before the rest of the congregation do.

And if they receive at the end, you will get a thread like this.

I suppose I can accept that if one’s choir invariably sings unison material during communion then perhaps they can receive one by one mid-piece. I am absolutely astonished that anyone would suggest an organist or other instrumentalist, or anyone singing a through-composed choral piece, should receive mid-music making. I can assure you that when I am playing organ or singing a four-part Tallis or Palestrina or [insert other approved composer here] piece, it is not an appropriate time for someone to pop a Host in my mouth. Also, little singers’ secret here, if you receive while singing or immediately before singing, it can take a great deal of concentration to avoid coughing or choking on inhaled particles of the Host.

I can accept that some musicians are guilty as charged by the OP, but there are for example many times when an EMHC has waited for a music group at my church to finish (our musicians are off to one side and the priests always distribute in the centre) quite happily by prior agreement, so that the music group can judge when the piece should finish on the basis of all four communion queues, not just the one on our side of the church. The “by prior arrangement” bit isn’t drawn up on a ten-foot square notice at the church door so I suppose half the congregation is assuming we are just keeping the poor person hanging around at the service of our performing egos … :rolleyes:

Some people want everything all ways at once with no idea of the practical reality of how things can and cannot work.
 
I can accept that some musicians are guilty as charged by the OP, but there are for example many times when an EMHC has waited for a music group at my church to finish…
This sounds like a great way to do things - have an EMHC waiting off to the side.

The music can continue, but Father is not left standing. 👍
 
…Tonight they kept singing, so I bowed my head in order not to stare and get annoyed. The singing continued (whole group, not just the leader). When I looked up, they were still singing, but Father was back in his chair and the altar was clear. I guess he decided not to wait for them.
Since I don’t know the parish, the music group or the priest, this is only a guess based on the various parishes where I’ve worked…

Perhaps after that other mass, the priest and the music director spoke. So, on this one evening where you saw the priest sitting in his chair and not going to them, they probably worked out a way for the music group to receive communion after mass. It may not have had anything to do with the priest being frustrated or trying to teach the group a lesson. They might have actually worked it out sensibly and maturely. That’s what usually happens in a healthy working relationship - the priest would approach the music director about the last mass. He might reprimand him/her or just ask him/her what happened and suggest finding a solution to that problem.

There are a number of parishes which do this. Often times, the priest will want the organist, cantor, music group, choir, etc. to keep doing the music for communion until he is finished clearing the altar - and I’ve seen some priests become very upset at organists or whomever was playing if they did not do this or did not start the music once he received the Eucharist. In the churches where I usually work, the organ is in the choir loft way in the back. The cantor can usually receive communion before starting the hymn - unless the priest wants the hymn to start immediately. The organist, however, usually never has a chance to go downstairs to receive communion because of the how the priest(s) want the music to continue. So, they either work out a way to receive it after mass or another priest or EMHC will go upstairs to the organist to distribute the eucharist after the music is completed. It is true that some instrumentalists are very capable of playing and receiving at the same time, but some are not, so they prefer to wait until after.

When I sang in a couple of church choirs, when we were in the loft, one or two choir members who were also EMHC’s would bring the Eucharist upstairs for us and we’d receive while the organist would play something on the organ - or wait until the motet was over and we’d receive then. At another parish, the choir was up front, so an EMHC or priest would wait until the choir was completed (at the priest’s request) and distribute the Eucharist.

I think another thing to be aware of is that many of the things we see or hear the choir or other musicians do is actually at the request of the priest who is saying the mass. We have about 5 priests at my parish and almost every one have specific requests on what we must do for their mass in terms of the music - when to start, stop, how many verses, etc. So, while some may think that it’s all the musicians’ doing, it actually may be just them listening to the priest.
 
Some laity are really getting carried away. I went to Mass this evening and after the recessional hymn, the cantor “thanked everyone for coming” as if we were there to listen to him sing.
I’ve cantored at some parishes where the priest requested the cantor to say this after the recessional hymn. It may not actually be the cantor who wants to say this. Since those were places where I volunteered, I never did it because I thought it was ridiculous to say, but other cantors did - at their priest’s request.
 
I am a music director, and if I’m leading the singing of the congregation, I am NOT “performing” or putting on a concert or recital. I am leading the singing of the congregation, and that is not disrespectful of the Eucharist. I cannot stop mid verse to receive. I cannot stop mid-song to receive. It is impossible.

"Holy God we praise… dead silence

“body of Christ… amen…” with the Eucharist in my mouth continuing…

“thy name”

Sorry, it doesn’t work. People here THINK they know what is going on or how things should go when there is no clue to the ins and outs of it. While it would be better to arrange receiving communino in a different way, perhaps after mass, or an EM bring a pyx over for after the song is over, at the moment, the song can’t just STOP dead silence. That is disrespectful to the congregation who is singing along. It isn’t “performance”
Why would it stop dead silent? Take turns and return to your instruments when you are done. Maybe the singing would momentarily stop, but the music would not.

If for someone reason the priest is ready for you before the song is over, be obedient and flexible. Discuss it with the other members of the choir/band first as to how to handle this situation should it arise.

I would much rather hear silence then to see the priest standing for a long time, especially if he is elderly or having trouble standing (which seems to be the case at our parish, especially with some of the visiting priests recently having knee surgeries, etc).
 
Why would it stop dead silent? Take turns and return to your instruments when you are done. Maybe the singing would momentarily stop, but the music would not.

If for someone reason the priest is ready for you before the song is over, be obedient and flexible. Discuss it with the other members of the choir/band first as to how to handle this situation should it arise.

I would much rather hear silence then to see the priest standing for a long time, especially if he is elderly or having trouble standing (which seems to be the case at our parish, especially with some of the visiting priests recently having knee surgeries, etc).
Because its JUST ME!!! I’m the only person playing the accompanying instrument, thats why. I receive the Eucharist, the music would stop.

Your suggestions about taking turns might work for certain songs, but not most. It would be distracting at best. Especially not the songs that are pushed here as being the only acceptable music.
 
The whole point in the OP’s scenario is, having Father stand there and stand there and there gives the appearance of disrepect. That is the bottom line.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon Father and the music director to work out another way to give Communion to the musicians. Whatever the new plan is, it doesn’t really matter, as long as Father is not left standing there waiting, waiting, waiting.

To the OP, maybe you could come up with 2 or 3 alternative suggestions that are workable for your parish and suggest them to Father.
 
The whole point in the OP’s scenario is, having Father stand there and stand there and there gives the appearance of disrepect. That is the bottom line.

Therefore, it is incumbent upon Father and the music director to work out another way to give Communion to the musicians. Whatever the new plan is, it doesn’t really matter, as long as Father is not left standing there waiting, waiting, waiting.

To the OP, maybe you could come up with 2 or 3 alternative suggestions that are workable for your parish and suggest them to Father.
It appears after that second mass, something might have been worked out since the priest went back to his seat and didn’t wait for the musicians that time around. They actually might have received after the mass.
 
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Perhaps after that other mass, the priest and the music director spoke. So, on this one evening where you saw the priest sitting in his chair and not going to them, they probably worked out a way for the music group to receive communion after mass.
Father did go to them and stand there waiting. It was only after a time of continued singing that Father sat down.

I hope they work something out.
 
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