Music leader rude to priest

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Thanks for the links MarkThompson. I’ll have to show this to my mother-in-law. Of course, she might sing at the time that she does because the priest mandates it that way (he’s kind of a grouch, but VERY traditional, and if I had to choose between the two, I’d continue to deal with grouchiness! ;)), so it might be a moot point. But, thanks again! We like to do things by the rules!
 
I am a Music Director,

First of All There SHOULD BE NO SINGING DURING COMMUNION there should only be quite organ music. OUR CHOIR SINGS the ENTRANCE, KYRIE, GLORIA, GOSPEL ACCLAMATION, OFFERTORY, SACNTUS, MEMORIAL ACCLAMATION, ANGUIS DEI, and RECESSIONAL, there is no excuse for that behavior. if you pulled that in the Church i play at you would be kicked out. i am only 17 and dont act like that. we are more disciplines as well our choir is Robed, we do ALL TRADITIONAL MUSIC. we use the Adoromus hymnal same as EWTN, I cant stand this new Liturgical Movement

UGHH
 
I am a Music Director,
Welcome.
First of All There SHOULD BE NO SINGING DURING COMMUNION there should only be quite organ music.
You’re not in agreement with the Church on that point. The General Instruction of the Roman Missal is clear that there most certainly can and should be singing during communion:
  1. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.[74] If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner.
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20030317_ordinamento-messale_en.html#C._The_Liturgy_of_the_Eucharist

The issue in the O.P.'s case seems to be that the choir didn’t end the chant in a “timely manner”, not that they were singing in the first place.
 
I am not musically inclined myself, but my mother in law is the cantor at our parish and she doesn’t start the Communion hymn until after the procession. However, it doesn’t sound, to me, like the part in the GIRM is talking about a song.

86.** While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun**. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.** If, however, there is to be a hymn after Communion, the Communion chant should be ended in a timely manner. **

So, what is the Communion chant? It explicitly says “if there is to be a hymn after Communion…” leading one to assume that the Communion chant and hymn are not the same thing. Anyone know? I’m asking this so that if my mother-in-law should be singing during this part I want to let her know.
Mark Thompson already answered and quoted GIRM 87 to indicate what can be used for the Communion Chant (Antiphon of the Day, Seasonal antiphon, Hymns). That starts while the priest is receiving Communion and continues as long as people are receiving and beyond if the hymn isn’t over.

We have to keep in mind that hymns are prayers and in many hymns, if not most, the verses build on each other to form a complete idea and that idea is only properly transmitted if the entire hymn is sung. How many times have we sung the trinitarian hymn “O God Almighty Father” and ended it after two verses, dissing the Holy Spirit by completely leaving out his verse?

Now we get to GIRM 88
  1. When the distribution of Communion is finished, as circumstances suggest, the priest and faithful spend some time praying privately. If desired, a psalm or other canticle of praise or a hymn may also be sung by the entire congregation.
That is the ‘hymn after Communion’ referred to in 87. We often hear it referred to as the ‘Post Communion Meditation’ or ‘Meditation Song/Hymn’. Few parishes follow the GIRM instruction that this is a congregational hymn. Note that this is the only hymn/Chant that the GIRM says must be sung by the congregation – all the others (Entrance, Offertory, Communion) have the option of being sung by the choir alone, yet this is the one song usually given to the soloists. When used, this song is intended to be the congregation’s post-Communion prayer, yet in 90% of parishes, it’s the one in which they don’t get to participate.
 
I am a Music Director,

First of All There SHOULD BE NO SINGING DURING COMMUNION there should only be quite organ music. OUR CHOIR SINGS the ENTRANCE, KYRIE, GLORIA, GOSPEL ACCLAMATION, OFFERTORY, SACNTUS, MEMORIAL ACCLAMATION, ANGUIS DEI, and RECESSIONAL, there is no excuse for that behavior. if you pulled that in the Church i play at you would be kicked out. i am only 17 and dont act like that. we are more disciplines as well our choir is Robed, we do ALL TRADITIONAL MUSIC. we use the Adoromus hymnal same as EWTN, I cant stand this new Liturgical Movement

UGHH
Wow, it’s rare that a post can be so incredibly self-righteous and yet utterly ignorant of traditional Catholic music and the Church’s age-old musical practices.

The Communion antiphon (Communio) is chanted during Communion. Period, as far as “traditional music” is concerned. If you’re not chanting the Communio, then you’re not doing “ALL TRADITIONAL MUSIC,” so you might as well get over yourself.
 
Wow, it’s rare that a post can be so incredibly self-righteous and yet utterly ignorant of traditional Catholic music and the Church’s age-old musical practices.

The Communion antiphon (Communio) is chanted during Communion. Period, as far as “traditional music” is concerned. If you’re not chanting the Communio, then you’re not doing “ALL TRADITIONAL MUSIC,” so you might as well get over yourself.
Agreed! I’m still wondering why a parish has a 17 year-old as a “music director”??
 
We have a music leader that treats the Mass as a performance. The offertory song is announced as well as who is singing it. She also raises her hand instructing everyone to stand before the Great Amen.
 
Agreed! I’m still wondering why a parish has a 17 year-old as a “music director”??
That happens a lot. Very few people play the pipe organ, and when one does, it’s just a matter of time before he’s in charge of music in a church somewhere. Our former music director celebrated 25 years in that position soon after his 40th birthday. Do the math.

Let’s just hope this one grows up soon.

Betsy
 
That happens a lot. Very few people play the pipe organ, and when one does, it’s just a matter of time before he’s in charge of music in a church somewhere. Our former music director celebrated 25 years in that position soon after his 40th birthday. Do the math.

Let’s just hope this one grows up soon.

Betsy
Amen to that!!!
 
… After the congregation has received Communion, the priest turns to the music group to give them Communion.

Sounds like the musicians are up front in full view of everyone. What if one of them is not disposed to receiving Holy Communion that day? For instance, what if the situation that you described was one in which the leader did not wish to receive that day?
I feel sorry for the choir because, if someone is not disposed to receive, it is in full view of the whole parish.

This reminds me of a priest who subs for us who asks us to raise our hands if we will not be receiving that day - supposedly to get a count on how many hosts he will need! That’s just like saying “Anyone who has committed a mortal sin since your last confession, please raise your hand.”
 
This reminds me of a priest who subs for us who asks us to raise our hands if we will not be receiving that day - supposedly to get a count on how many hosts he will need! That’s just like saying “Anyone who has committed a mortal sin since your last confession, please raise your hand.”
Well, not really. You could have eaten less than an hour before (easy at weekday Masses), you could feel sick, be Protestant, etc. Those same reasons might explain why a choir member is not receiving. In our parish there is one choir member who never receives because he’s not Catholic but I doubt that many people are aware of that or are even aware of the fact that he doesn’t receive.
 
After reading this thread, I got curious and watched what went on during Mass at my parish. Previously, I had just attended to my own business of prayer and recollection but I got curious and watched the musicians and singers.

Turns out, they rotate. The others carry the music when each one is receiving Communion. Works pretty seamlessly.
 
Well, not really. You could have eaten less than an hour before (easy at weekday Masses), you could feel sick, be Protestant, etc. Those same reasons might explain why a choir member is not receiving. In our parish there is one choir member who never receives because he’s not Catholic but I doubt that many people are aware of that or are even aware of the fact that he doesn’t receive.
Fantastic points. But if the choir is up front, not far from the sanctuary, it could cause a problem for some members if they haven’t already notified the priest that they will not be receiving. It’s not a problem for the rest of the congregation because those who will not be receiving do not get in line. But in the situation described, the priest approached the musicians and stood there w/ the host. What should the person do? Nod in a negative manner? Change the lyrics at that point to “no thanks, Father”?
 
After reading this thread, I got curious and watched what went on during Mass at my parish. Previously, I had just attended to my own business of prayer and recollection but I got curious and watched the musicians and singers.

Turns out, they rotate. The others carry the music when each one is receiving Communion. Works pretty seamlessly.
yep, most choirs will do that. or they will receive first before they start singing
 
can we at least admit the possibility that in the instance described by OP the music people simply misjudged the length of the song or the length of the communion line, and somebody got flustered and made a split second decision to keep singing. Sounds like a problem for the priest to deal with in conjunction with the choir, not the concern of anyone else.
Good idea. I used to sing in choirs and singing involved rehearsals, as it would for most if not all choirs. We’d rehearse a song with by singing it the same way every time, so the choir was used to singing, say, 4 verses. Interrupting this during Mass would be chaotic unless the choir was also trained to stop singing at some signal. When a group of people have rehearsed a piece of music, changing it can often lead to a lot of confusion among the people singing.

I read through most of the thread, until I got to this comment to reply, but I’m not sure I saw anyone bring up the issue that some of these choirs are children’s choirs, like the ones I was in, in which the singers are in middle school or maybe teenagers in high school. These are people learning about music and they (at least speaking for myself) - I did not have the knowledge or flexibility of a professional musician, or even an adult. In addition, when adults sing, they are often musically untrained. People without training can be very talented and do a great job, but may have a harder time adapting to change, which means anything different from rehearsal.

Also, to be in a choir, at least for me, meant that people were looking in my general direction and when I was about 12 and singing, I was very self-conscious about this. People who are already nervous are not as adaptable.

It would be a humiliating experience for anyone in a choir, but especially a young person, if the director decided to signal them to stop and the person kept singing b/c that’s how they’d rehearsed it, but they were singing when they shouldn’t have been. That’s the kind of thing that I would have had nightmares about. 🙂 It can make a sensitive person, especially without musical training, leave the choir and not come back.

I think a good solution is what several posters mentioned. Have the choir receive first, which can be done very quickly, and then have everyone settle in and start singing. Then it’s not a distraction and the priest doesn’t have to wait.

If the choir is used to singing while some members are taking turns to receive, that works too, assuming it goes well with the music being sung. But that would need to be discussed with the choir in advance and may require some practice. Once people got used to it I imagine it would be fine.
 
I am Sorry if i sounded nasty in my post, i just dont like what is happening to the Church Music-wise all of this new stuff that is going on, i like to old Latin Music, and it does not matter what age you are, if you HAVE A GIFT then put it to GOOD USE! 😃
 
Agreed! I’m still wondering why a parish has a 17 year-old as a “music director”??
First of all i am sorry looking back at my post, i was very mean. i did not mean to sound that way. By the Way, Anyone Gifted should beable to Play the Organ, my Comment was very mean, and i am sorry for that.
 
I am Sorry if i sounded nasty in my post, i just dont like what is happening to the Church Music-wise all of this new stuff that is going on, i like to old Latin Music, and it does not matter what age you are, if you HAVE A GIFT then put it to GOOD USE! 😃
I admire that you put your gift to good use, would that we had an organist in my parish. That said, I grew up with the TLM and there was singing during Communion so it’s not as though it’s something new.
 
First of all i am sorry looking back at my post, i was very mean. i did not mean to sound that way. By the Way, Anyone Gifted should beable to Play the Organ, my Comment was very mean, and i am sorry for that.
I Think Samantha in your post why do they have a 17 year old was very mean. You should be lucky that you at least have an organist, THEY are very hard to Find. I am a 16 year old organist and take offense to that remark. i practice at least once a day for each mass i play at so everything is perfect. comments like that SHOULD be kept to YOURSELF. as to the Pipeorganist your comment was very rude, BUT i do admire you for Aplogizing for that in your post, IT takes alot for a 17 year old to Apologize.

LETs BE THANKFUL WE HAVE ORGANIST!
GOD BLESS 😃
 
Hmm, in my (Anglican) church the choir, who is in stalls at the front, goes up to receive after they finish the agnus dei, then they go back and begin the hymn, and then there is a communion motet. That is usually after the congregation has all received, although sometimes I think they start it early.

But it seems like a communication issue to me - they need to work out a better system.

I don’t think it is sensible to stop in the middle of a hymn though. Hymns are prayers, if you are going to include them they should be complete. I also think having them receive while singing or playing is a bad idea - possibly difficult for many to manage, especially when there may be only two people in a section, and also rather irreverent. My parish always receives kneeling anyway.
 
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